More from the "Religion of Peace"

[sgtmac_46]

Islam is about as old now as Xtianity was at the time of the Inquisition.

Islam just has the advantage of better weapons and transportation.

Just saying..

Actually, for the sake of historical accuracy.....Islam BEGAN this way, at the bloody hands of it's Warlord founder, Mohammad, who converted by the sword those who did not convert by the word.....and Islam conquered everything between the middle east and the Iberian Peninsula in Europe over the next 200 years, only stopping in the face of European military force at the Battle of Tours.

Islam actually had the military advantage until 1683 when they were turned about at the gates of Vienna......and only for the last 400 years have they been on the decline owing to Western technological superiority only.

None of those facts are in dispute.

 

[jarrod]

Yeah, well, i'm not.....i'm holding up secularism as superior to Islam, and the secular Western world as superior to the Islamic world.

well guess what mac...i agree with you. but you were taking a comment of mine directed at twin fist & acting as if i was arguing with you.

 

[elder999]

Now, that entire 100 million certainly isn't militant, perhaps......10 percent of that......perhaps 10 million muslims worldwide qualify as MILITANT Islamic Fundamentalists.

'Tiny' sect.

Actually, since only about 1 in 50 terrorist acts worldwide are committed by women, we can toss just under 50% of that 10 million, to bring the pool down to 5 million. And, since the vast majority of terrorist acts committed by Islamic men is committed by men between the ages of 15 and 30, we caln lower that pool by another 75% to 1.25 million.

Of that 1.25 million, though, how many do you suppose are living in caves in Afghanistan, or the jungles of the Phillipines, or....well, how many do you figure were killed in Gaza last week, and how much do you think the ones that are left can do to us....

(Actually,based on CIA estimates, your initially posted estimates are probably wrong, and probably grossly underestimating, but since I can't post a link to those CIA estimates, we'll use your numbers-the last sentence still applies: most of that number can't do diddly-they lack the support, logistics and ability to act against us. All they can do is sit in their caves, wishing they had some plastique and some way of moving against the U.S. in the U.S.........and maybe masturbate thinking about the 72 virgins they're not gonna get....)

 

[searcher]

Not to get to sidetracked here or anything, but this discussion makes me think of that door-gunner in Full Metal Jacket.:biggun: As sad as it is, how do we decide who to shoot at and who to leave alone. Do we just need to start shooting and whoever is left must be the non-militant ones? Probably not. It is going to take the non-militant Muslims getting tired of the militant ones before any real change will happen. But I don't think we can sit back and wait on that to happen.
Where is the CIA when you need them?verkill:

 

[elder999]

As sad as it is, how do we decide who to shoot at and who to leave alone. Do we just need to start shooting and whoever is left must be the non-militant ones?

By way of an answer, I offer the following:

it's hard sometimes to not wish for the removal of this......"religion" from our world.

we are not primitive barbarians brainwashed by a cult that teaches it is ok to stone rape victims, force school girls to burn to death cuz we wont let them outside without thier hijab, or to "seek out the infidel and kill them wherever you find them, or force them to pay the jiziza"

This isnt just SOME cleric, this is the GRand Mufti of SA, thats like the Pope comming out and saying it is ok to rape little boys. So EH's comparison to LDS practicing Plural marraige FAILS.

Wishing for the removal of Islam, a religion, is racist HOW exactly Nole? oh thats right, it isnt,it cant be, but, you just like to throw out whatever insult you have handy.

Islam is a religion founded by a pedophile, a religion who's top clerics met to decide exactly HOW it was ok to molest little boys and girls, (as long as you dont penetrate them, they declared it was ok for a grown man to "take his pleasure" with children, what you should do with an animal you copulate with (sell it, but not in YOUR village, in the next village over), and to declare death to all jews.

How people can defend ANYTHING they do, or even try to draw comparisons to ANYTHING Christianity has done boggles my mind.

Sure, bad things happened in the history of Chrisitanity, HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO, all this **** with Islam is happening NOW

AGAIN for teh dense, this was the GRAND MUFTI, the equivilent of the POPE. Arguably the most powerfull single cleric in ALL ISLAM

(Again, I need to point out that he is not at all "arguably the most powerfil single cleric in ALL ISLAM," in fact he's not at all "the equivalent of the POPE," in fact, he's just some guy-they don't even follow his orders about terrorism and jihad, so why should they listen to what he says about marrying little girls?

I also need to point out how indicative this is of your ignorance in this regard.

If you were so wrong about this, what else are you wrong about?)

And as far as deviency goes, getting it on with kids is pretty common.

ALL muslims? of course not. But theones that DONT think that way do so not becausefo the religion, they do it IN SPITE of the religion, cuz the religion tells them it is ok.

Bluntly, I consider islam a cult of death. I consider pretty much all religion silly, but Islam is dangerous. No other religion that i know of commands it's followers to go out and KILL

Islam does. And they do.

No other religion I know of does that, and there is no excuse for it.

If my opinion offends Muslims, i dont care, they need to take a long hard look at the book and thier prophet. All i do is repete the truth. And it isnt my fault that the TRUTH about Islam isnt pretty.

.

the enemy IS islam

the book says flat out to seek out the infidel and kill them, to convert them by force, to have sex with 9 year olds.

Thats the difference between Islam and christianity.

thier religion commands violence, it is right there in the book
thier prophet was a child molester
thier scripture commands them to be like the prophet

when mulims kill infidels they are following the prophets commands
the entire religion is FLAWED from the start. And saying so is perfectly fine because it is true.

....so, I guess we have to kill them all.

 

[Twin Fist]

ok Elder, NOW you are annoying me

The mufti isnt just some guy.


grand Mufti:
Senior cleric, voted in my all the other clerics in Saudi, the homeland of islam

the Pope:
senior cleric, voted in by all the other clerics in the vatican, the heart of the catholic church

that makes him considerable more than "some guy" and you know full well it does.

what I actually said:
Islam is a religion
islam was founded by a pedophile
islam tells it's followers to go out and kill infidels
there is no excuse for these actions
it is BS to compare christianity 500 years ago to Islam TODAY
I think the world would be better without Islam (just my opinion)
Islam is a religion, not a race, so my feelings cannot be described honestly as racist.

every single one of these statements are true (or an opinion, not a statement of fact)

none of them are NICE, but they are all true.

what I didnt say:
kill all muslims

i said, explicitly that the problem isnt the people, the problem is the religion itself.

now thats an opinion, and can tbe proven or disproven in any real way. But it is in fact my opinion.

 

[elder999]

ok Elder, NOW you are annoying me

Good! :lfao:

The mufti isnt just some guy.


grand Mufti:
Senior cleric, voted in my all the other clerics in Saudi, the homeland of islam

the Pope:
senior cleric, voted in by all the other clerics in the vatican, the heart of the catholic church

that makes him considerable more than "some guy" and you know full well it does.

Well, is he considerable more than the Grand Mufti of Yemen? Or the Grand Mufti of Australia? I think Australia has more people, so he must be greater than that one.....of course, they've both issued fatwa agianst terrorism, and yet there are still fundamentalists willing to carry out "jihad" against the U.S., so it must be someone even greater than them...let's see....the population of Saudi Arabia is about 27 million, the population of Iraq is also about 27 million-but wait, they're mostly shia, and the shiites don't have a mufti. I know! The population of Russia is about 140 million.

It must be the Grand Mufti of Russia...:lfao: you've been barking up the wrong mufti...:lfao:

what I actually said:

I posted and quoted what you "actually said." Do you deny saying those things?

islam was founded by a pedophile

"Christianity was founded by a cannibal."

"Buddhism was founded by a spoiled rich kid."

"The Fransiscan order was founded by a schizophrenic."

"Lutheranism was founded by a drunkard."

"Mormonism was founded by a con-man."

Of course, Muhammad had already "founded Islam" when he took his 10 year old bride, so that's not exactly true anyway.....better to say that Islam was founded by a guy who became a pedophile, but that's not quite right either, any more than any of that other nonsense I just posted....

Context is everything. Today he'd be a pedophile, in our culture. 700 odd years ago, in the Arab world, just not that unusual, I'll bet. And it's not like the Mufti-any of them-could say that the "prophet was wrong," and it's not like their culture forbids it (unlike, say, in Russia), so of course the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia said that it's okay to marry a 10 year old-not desirable, not necessary, but acceptable.This brings up a few questions, though, but the primary one would have to be:

How many men are going to give their 10 year old daughters in marriage anyway, do ya think? :lfao:

Even in as bass ackwards a place as Saudi Arabia? :lol:

Where the average marriage age for a woman is 20.1 years? :lol:

Where, not incidentally, women are getting more rights, bit by bit,dowries are going up, and the divorce rate is going up.....

(Not to mention that by your own logic mentioning the "Prophet's pedophilia" 700 years in the past is no more a valid argument than bringing up past "Christian evils." :lfao: So, I won't even bother mentioning that the Old Testament doesn't give a lower age limit for marriage, either, and that some of those "Biblical babes" were kinda young when they got married. Oops, I did mention it, didn't I? :lfao

I think the world would be better without Islam (just my opinion)
Islam is a religion, not a race, so my feelings cannot be described honestly as racist.

No, you're right. They're not "racist" -it's just hard to see how you aren't calling for some sort of genocide, though-albeit one that wipes out most of the Arab world, parts of Asia, parts of Europe, and a few million U.S. citizens.

Don't know what you'd call that...."religionist?" Theobigotry?" I know!

"Anti-Islamism!"

And, at this point John, while not a moderator, I should remind you of a few rules here-otherwise, you might just get removed from the sandbox, leaving me without such an inadequate and amusing "punching bag" as yourself..... (I'd say "sparring partner," but you're not even decent a moving target on this one...) :lfao:



The Rules can be found here

And they say:

Hate Speech

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They also say:

MartialTalk Policy on Religious Tolerance


Religion is an important part of the lives of many of our members, and we believe it is important that people be given the opportunity to express their religious and spiritual beliefs in their online lives. This goes for all faiths, equally.

We expect our members to show tolerance of others beliefs in a non-judgmental manner.

Naturally this means that any kind of blatantly excessive religious posting or attempts to convince other people that their religion
(or lack thereof) is wrong simply cannot be allowed. Such posts damage the community at large because they can be disruptive.

MartialTalk welcomes people of all faiths and does not condone the wholesale condemnation of a faith or the defamatory general characterizations of a faith, based on the actions of a few.


Members are welcome to their opinions however we must insist that they be posted in such a manner as to not condemn an entire group for the negative actions of a few.

Such actions may run afoul of our hate-speech policies and will be dealt with as such.

Please be respectful of your fellow members, who may believe differently than you, yet are still human beings with the right to believe as they do, the same as you and I.

 

[searcher]

Alright boays and girls, in about 2 seconds I am going to pull this planet over and toss a nuke into the backseat.:tantrum:

:redeme:

And ifwe don't get this problem solved, I will toss another. And I will keep tossing nukes until this problem goes away.

 

[Twin Fist]

Not quite there Slick

"Christianity was founded by a cannibal."

"Buddhism was founded by a spoiled rich kid."

"The Fransiscan order was founded by a schizophrenic."

"Lutheranism was founded by a drunkard."

"Mormonism was founded by a con-man."

not so fast
Mohammad was a pedophile. That is a fact. Those others are not facts, but opinions. So the comparison isnt exact. I know you were making stupid comparisons to try and make a point, but some people are too stupid not to realize this, sarcasm fails in print for the most part remember, so it has to be said.

How many men are going to give their 10 year old daughters in marriage anyway, do ya think? :lfao:

with the big cleric telling them it is ok? prob more than one, and thats too many in this day and age. And it is just an example of why Islam is bad, it is backward. They are trying to return to the 6th century, and that is bad.

No, you're right. They're not "racist" -it's just hard to see how you aren't calling for some sort of genocide,

that isnt my problem. i didnt say that, so accusing me of it is unfair and untrue. not that you have, but some have and it is dishonest and unfair.

Don't know what you'd call that...."religionist?" Theobigotry?" I know!

"Anti-Islamism!""

I tend to call it "common sense" and "courage to tell the truth"

if, as someone posted upthread, the pope's failure to condemn the scandel is paramount to approving of it, then the failure on my part to denounce some of the practices of a group, even though they be a religion, (and why should religions be off limits anyways?) would be the same as endocring those practices.

leaving me without such an inadequate and amusing "punching bag" as yourself.....

I would say the score is pretty much even on that one partner.....

 

[elder999]

Not quite there Slick
not so fast
Mohammad was a pedophile. That is a fact. Those others are not facts, but opinions. So the comparison isnt exact.

Well, I dunno.

Joseph Smith was a convicted con man.In March, 1826, a court in Bainbridge, N.Y., convicted a 21- Joseph Smit of being "a disorderly person and an impostor."At he trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad golddigging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers. Of course, unlike Muhammad, we can actually read archival copies of the newspaper accounts.....that's a fact, BTW.....:lfao:

I could go on about the cannibalistic roots of theophagy, the psychological analysis of St. Francis, the drinking habits of Martin Luther, and the upbringing of Siddharta Gautama, but I'll try not to confuse you with too many more facts, since you seem to get "fact" and "opinion" a little mixed up...:lfao:

I would say the score is pretty much even on that one partner.....

Well of course you would. That's okay, it's not the first time you've been wrong in this thread, and it's not the first time you won't admit being wrong, either.

Probably won't be the last....seems you have a little trouble telling the difference. :lfao:

I just can't resist for some reason, but Daddy used to always tell me not to get in a battle of wits with someone who was unarmed....:lol:

(You'd still do well to pay attention to what I said, John. A word to the not-so-wise...:lfao

 

[Twin Fist]

you know, you can give advice without sounding so condescending. Much like sarcasm, humor doesnt translate to th written form very well.

something apparently YOU didnt know.

(wait, what do you mean there's no more room on the list of stuff Elder didnt know? really? well scratch off something thats not important, like the difference between "wont admit they are wrong " and "not convinced they are wrong")

 

[tellner]

For chrissake Twinnie. "They were Catholics, not Christians"? Come on, you can do better than that. That's like saying "Those Shia aren't real Muslims" or "No True Scotsman".

Outside of the Orthodox Church the Catholics have been the majority of Christians from the word "go". And the Orthodox and Protestants have been just as vicious, just as bloodthirsty.

And sgtmac, the proportion of truly whacked out murderous Christians in this country is probably just as great as whacked out murderous Muslims in any Muslim country. The fact that they came out in droves for their "Esther" the execrable crazed Sarah Palin speaks volumes. So does the quality of Christianity in much of the world including the supposedly-developed United States - exorcisms, demons, speaking in tongues, touching your television so the witch doctor can heal you. Or consider the Dominionists, the Christian Reconstructionists, the Dispensationalists and the rest of that evil crew who make up the political arm of the Church Militant. Consider examples like that disgrace to the Uniform, General Boykin or the takeover of the Air Force Academy by the Fundamentalists.

These are hard-core Christians who believe that your god Jesus will not be allowed to return until America is a theocracy and we have conquered most of the rest of the world in Jesus' name. And they have been embraced by your Decider who has said he was chosen by the Almighty as the Commander Guy ( his words).

And you have the temerity to talk about any other religion's fanatics.

As far as that goes the Crusade against the Muslims has killed staggeringly more innocents than all the acts of terrorism against the Christians. The only difference is that we call it "statesmanship" or "collateral damage". The fanatics who ran the US government caused the deaths of at least half a million Iraqis. The entire Christian population has been forced into exile. We don't even let people in to estimate the number of Afghani dead, but it's at least in the hundreds of thousands. Economic warfare alone killed at least a quarter million Iraqis between the Persian Gulf Live Fire Exercise and Operation Iraqi Liberation.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Though Muhammad married a bride of 10yrs of age I doubt it was for a Pedophile reason.

British historian William Montgomery Watt suggests that Muhammad hoped to strengthen his ties with Abu Bakr;[1] the strengthening of ties commonly served as a basis for marriage in Arabian culture

In other cultures marriage can be used as a political motivation,or strenghtening bond of two rivial families.

Muhammad's first wife was not a child but at an age of 40yrs

He married in his later youth implying late teens or maybe mid 20's.

Islam as a whole does not tell people to kill infidels anymore then
Catholics as a whole molest little boys.

You may not be a racist Twin Fist but you fit this defination:

big·ot·ry (b

g

-tr

) [SIZE=-2]KEY [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]NOUN: [/SIZE]

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

 

[CanuckMA]

Mohammad was a pedophile. That is a fact.

Actually, Mohammad married a 10 year old. That is pedophilia by today's standards. It was not back then. Stop trying to impose today's moral standards to the past.

 

[elder999]

you know, you can give advice without sounding so condescending. Much like sarcasm, humor doesnt translate to th written form very well.

something apparently YOU didnt know.

And yet you seem to know I'm joking.....must be all those rolling on the floor laughing their asses off smilies I use... :lfao:

(wait, what do you mean there's no more room on the list of stuff Elder didnt know? really?

Sure there's lots of room on that list, just like there's lots of stuff on that list..... Not really sure what you're trying to say here, but that's not unusual. It must be something like "humor not translating well to written form," I guess. (BTW, not that I'd compare myself to them, but you should read some Mark Twain, or even Steve Martin. Dave Barry, too...they're really funny!)

In any case:

well scratch off something thats not important, like the difference between "wont admit they are wrong " and "not convinced they are wrong")

In your case, apparently there isn't any difference.....and why would there be?.:lfao:

 

[Twin Fist]

BZZZZZZZZZ wrong answer. Thanks for playing

the bible doesnt say "take your pleasure with the youth"

the Koran DOES say "seek out the infidel and kill them"

you are wrong

Islam as a whole does not tell people to kill infidels anymore then
Catholics as a whole molest little boys.

 

[Twin Fist]

Elder, you may be joking, but you are essentially calling me dishonest, and you know i am not that.

BTW- research shows that Smith didnt admitt defrauding anyone, he admitted taking work looking for treasure, and not finding any.
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2002_1826_Trial_of_Joseph_Smith.html

those are different things.

(BTW, not that I'd compare myself to them, but you should read some Mark Twain, or even Steve Martin. Dave Barry, too...they're really funny!)

well yeah, they are actually, you know.....FUNNY

and I know the difference there Sparky. I am not convinced Oswald acted alone. I wont admit that I love Conway Twitty's music......

oh damn i just did

 

[elder999]

Elder, you may be joking, but you are essentially calling me dishonest, and you know i am not that.

BTW- research shows that Smith didnt admitt defrauding anyone, he admitted taking work looking for treasure, and not finding any.
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2002_1826_Trial_of_Joseph_Smith.html

those are different things.

Actually, I said he was convicted, and what it was for. Those would be, you know, what's that word you like so much? Oh, yeah! FACTS!

Fact is, Joe Smith from N.Y. was a convicted con man-and prophet of the LDS.

BZZZZZZZZZ wrong answer. Thanks for playing

the bible doesnt say "take your pleasure with the youth"

the Koran DOES say "seek out the infidel and kill them"

you are wrong

But we can't even use what the Bible does say, because, according to you and others, "past atrocities of Christianity" don't count, or something, never mind the simple facts of what the book actually says......

...funny how easy it is for everyone else to be "wrong" when you're the one making the rules .....

....let's take a look at what the Bible does say, and we'll just restrict it to those patriarchs and prophets that might be comparable to Muhammad....

Abram tells his wife, Sarai, to lie about being his wife, and at Genesis 20:2, Abram, now called Abraham for his "just actions," he himself lies about "Sarah" being his wife. When Abraham is caught in his fib regarding Sarah not being his wife, he continues the lie and doesn't even bat an eye at the incestuous implications, as he tells the king of Gerar--who, thinking Sarah is Abraham's sister, has nearly had sex with her--that Sarah is both Abraham's wife and his sister, but not by the same father. And at Genesis 16:3, Abraham continues his godly behavior and commits adultery and bigamy with Hagar the Egyptian (not to mention treason, since Egypt is an enemy of the Lord's chosen). Remember, this is the behavior of one of the Lord's greatest prophets.

Who was Abraham? An insane barbarian patriarch who married his sister, denied his wife, and seduced her handmaid; who drove one child into the desert to starve, and made preparations to butcher the other.

The pious prophet's son, Isaac, has also learned his father's trick of lying, and he too plays it upon the king of Gerar at Genesis 26:7. The king finds him out when he catches Isaac fondling his wife, but Isaac, not as good a liar as his papa, tells him the truth. For his high moral character, Isaac is eventually made very wealthy by the Lord.Of course, Abraham is not the only pious person who displays behavior which would be unacceptable by today's moral standards but which is considered perfectly fine and virtuous because it is committed by a biblical character. At Genesis 20:32-36, the divinely chosen Lot is made drunk and then seduced by his daughters. This immoral act is done, one assumes, with the blessings of the Lord, because it serves to continue the Hebraic lineage.


Who was Jacob? Another patriarch, who won God's love by deceiving his father, cheating his uncle, robbing his brother, practicing bigamy with two of his cousins, and committing fornication with two of his housemaids.

Who was Moses? A model of meekness; a man who boasted of his own humility; a man who murdered an Egyptian and hid his body in the sand; a man who exterminated whole nations to secure the spoils of war, a man who butchered in cold blood thousands of captive widows, a man who tore dimpled babes from the breasts of dying mothers and put them to a cruel death; a man who made orphans of thirty-two thousand innocent girls, and turned sixteen thousand of them over to the brutal lusts of a savage soldiery.

Who was David? "A man after God's own heart." A vulgar braggadocio; a traitor, desiring to lead an enemy's troops against his own countrymen; a thief and robber, plundering the country on every side; a liar, uttering wholesale falsehoods to screen himself from justice; a red-handed butcher, torturing and slaughtering thousands of men, women, and children, making them pass through burning brick-kilns, carving them up with saws and axes, and tearing them into pieces under harrows of iron; a polygamist, with a harem of wives and concubines; a drunken debauchee, dancing half-naked before the maids of his household; a lecherous old libertine, abducting and ravishing the wife of a faithful soldier; a murderer, having that faithful soldier put to death after desolating his home; a hoary-headed fiend, foaming with vengeance on his dying bed, demanding with his last breath the deaths of two aged men, one of whom had most contributed to make his kingdom what it was, the other a man to whom he had promised protection.

And so on and so on throughout the "Holy" Bible. Which "should be taught in every school" but definitely would have a hard time making it to our movies screens or would be V-chipped out of our TVs.

 

[Sukerkin]

Nasty how some things can look when painted in a 'modern' light isn't it?

It's also nasty how some of these posts are starting to shape up here. It'd be a service to us all if people can bear in mind the most basic of the rules of conduct on these fora (or maybe even read the banner that's at the top of every page where it whispers something about being a "Friendly Discussion Forum").

 

[Twin Fist]

Not so Fast Sparky

here is what you said

At he trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad golddigging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers.

you said "he admitted to defrauding"

that isnt true. He admitted to taking work looking for treasure.

subtle difference

and lost on you apparently.

And jade posted:
"Islam as a whole does not tell people to kill infidels anymore then
Catholics as a whole molest little boys."

which is incorrect, as i pointed out, since Islam does in fact tell it's people to kill infidels. It's in the book

catholics as a whole do not molest boys


the rest of your post is just more "they did it too" deflection

it's GOOD deflection, dont get me wrong, but it isnt really germain to the point.

Suk,
me and elder are being friendly, sure, he is being a little mean about it, but i dont mind, if that much of my forehead was visible, I would be testy too.........%-}