MMA bashing on Kung Fu

[drop bear]

And some people who train at grappling suck at grappling, and switch to striking and pick it up right away. People are individuals.

Most people who suck at grappling and train get better at it.

Otherwise I would wonder if the training was working.

 

[skribs]

Most people who suck at grappling and train get better at it.

Otherwise I would wonder if the training was working.

I don't even know where to begin with this, there is so much wrong with your thinking. Do you think that everyone has the same level of aptitude? Do you think that everyone learns everything in a linear rate?

When I was in school, there were some kids that were A students, some B students, some C students. Some people always got As and Bs in math and science, and struggled mightily in English and History. Others did great in English and Math, but bad in Science and History.

Some people are better at recreating forms and focusing on the details of the techniques. Others are better at reading people. Some people enjoy one aspect of the art over others. The parts you find more enjoyable and connect better with, are often the parts you'll improve on the most.

To assume that people will learn everything in the art at the same rate is an assumption so baffling to me, I can't even comprehend it. People aren't robots.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The haters have no intent on trying to find someone that is good in traditional martial arts. This is a yearly lei-tai event where martial artist from different fighting systems fight each other. There are others like it around the world, but no one has ever used these guys to prove that traditional martial arts sucks. It's always pick the guy who is the worst at something and then claim that everyone who trains the same thing is just has horrible.

I've sparred amateur MMA fighter, boxers, and amateur Muay Thai fighters and they never walked away thinking I suck. Most fighters tend to spar with those who are on the same level or on a higher level because they are looking to either maintain their skills and get better. You can't improve by always sparring against people you know you can easily beat.

I was challenged by a "celebrity" TV show host who wanted me to fly all the way to china to fight him, so that he could prove that he could beat me up. What kind of nonsense is that. So I flipped it on him and told him. That he was weak minded. If he truly believes that he can beat me so easy then why would he want to fight me? That's just being a bully. If he wanted to fight me because he thought I would be a good opponent. Then he must think my martial arts training is good enough to fight against him, which in that case, there's no need for me to take a long trip, spend my money and time to meet someone I don't know, to prove such an insignificant thing as "my martial arts training doesn't suck." I told him he was either a bully that preyed on those who he thought were weaker or he admits that what I do is effective.

Fighters in general always try to prove themselves by fighting upward in the ranking and not downward. Anyone who brags about fighting someone they know they can easily beat is trying to prove to themselves that they don't suck, but at another persons expense and risk. The key is to not give people like that any validity. The "battle" with them is not a physical issue, it's a mental one, so beat them mentally without trying to prove what you can do and they will quickly fall away.

 

[dvcochran]

My point is just, no matter what school you train at or how hard you go, there are some people that you (general) you wont be able to match with athleticism.

That is true. You will match with people who are better/stronger athletically. Those are the people you have to beat with technique and craftiness.

 

[Hanzou]

And some people who train at grappling suck at grappling, and switch to striking and pick it up right away. People are individuals.

No, they get their **** handed to them on the mat, can't handle it and switch to something that protects their ego.

There's no way you can train and advance in grappling and not get better at it.

 

[dvcochran]

The haters have no intent on trying to find someone that is good in traditional martial arts. This is a yearly lei-tai event where martial artist from different fighting systems fight each other. There are others like it around the world, but no one has ever used these guys to prove that traditional martial arts sucks. It's always pick the guy who is the worst at something and then claim that everyone who trains the same thing is just has horrible.

I've sparred amateur MMA fighter, boxers, and amateur Muay Thai fighters and they never walked away thinking I suck. Most fighters tend to spar with those who are on the same level or on a higher level because they are looking to either maintain their skills and get better. You can't improve by always sparring against people you know you can easily beat.

I was challenged by a "celebrity" TV show host who wanted me to fly all the way to china to fight him, so that he could prove that he could beat me up. What kind of nonsense is that. So I flipped it on him and told him. That he was weak minded. If he truly believes that he can beat me so easy then why would he want to fight me? That's just being a bully. If he wanted to fight me because he thought I would be a good opponent. Then he must think my martial arts training is good enough to fight against him, which in that case, there's no need for me to take a long trip, spend my money and time to meet someone I don't know, to prove such an insignificant thing as "my martial arts training doesn't suck." I told him he was either a bully that preyed on those who he thought were weaker or he admits that what I do is effective.

Fighters in general always try to prove themselves by fighting upward in the ranking and not downward. Anyone who brags about fighting someone they know they can easily beat is trying to prove to themselves that they don't suck, but at another persons expense and risk. The key is to not give people like that any validity. The "battle" with them is not a physical issue, it's a mental one, so beat them mentally without trying to prove what you can do and they will quickly fall away.

That was a very enjoyable and fun video to watch. It reminded me a lot of the PKA fights I did back in the 80's-90's. A lot of variety in technique/style and size of opponent.

One reason MMA became more popular over PKA (and such)is that they do not stop when they go to the ground. That takes a different/higher level of conditioning and fight methodology.
Fight Science is aptly named. When I was in the Olympic circuit, my trainer was very good at training me for the last minute of the 1st round vs. the 3rd round or the last 30 seconds of a match etc... There are mental-physical connections that can be triggered with training. If @drop bear thinks this falls under conditioning, I agree.

 

[skribs]

No, they get their **** handed to them on the mat, can't handle it and switch to something that protects their ego.

There's no way you can train and advance in grappling and not get better at it.

Get better at it, yes. But some people will make small steps and others great leaps.

I did 3 years of wrestling in middle school. Did I get better? Yes. Did I ever win a match? Only when I was fighting a weight class down. I sucked at it.

I'm taking hapkido now. It's difficult for me. Am I better than I was a year ago? Yes. Do I feel confident with it yet? No.

My comments aren't that people can't get better. My comments are regarding the idea that people get better at everything at the same rate.

 

[Mitlov]

That was a very enjoyable and fun video to watch. It reminded me a lot of the PKA fights I did back in the 80's-90's. A lot of variety in technique/style and size of opponent.

One reason MMA became more popular over PKA (and such)is that they do not stop when they go to the ground. That takes a different/higher level of conditioning and fight methodology.
Fight Science is aptly named. When I was in the Olympic circuit, my trainer was very good at training me for the last minute of the 1st round vs. the 3rd round or the last 30 seconds of a match etc... There are mental-physical connections that can be triggered with training. If @drop bear thinks this falls under conditioning, I agree.

I would say different, not better. I would not say that Rico Verhoeven is lacking ANYTHING in terms of conditioning. Dude's a machine.

In terms of fight methodology, when you gain breadth of technique, you can lose depth. You'll see a more sophisticated striking game in Glory kickboxing than in the UFC simply because of that rule difference. I personally much prefer watching kickboxing over MMA because of that stand up game.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No, they get their **** handed to them on the mat, can't handle it and switch to something that protects their ego.

There's no way you can train and advance in grappling and not get better at it.

At my dojo i could be training grappling pretty extensively, but i dont. I did for a bit, and yes i got my *** handed to me many times over, but honestly I'm fine with that. My issue was simply that i preferred weapons more. And its not like i was amazing eith weapons/i had more than enough bruises to show i was not good when i started, and i still regularly lose pretty badly if I go up against a couple people at my dojo.

It's not always about ego.

 

[Mitlov]

Get better at it, yes. But some people will make small steps and others great leaps.

I did 3 years of wrestling in middle school. Did I get better? Yes. Did I ever win a match? Only when I was fighting a weight class down. I sucked at it.

I'm taking hapkido now. It's difficult for me. Am I better than I was a year ago? Yes. Do I feel confident with it yet? No.

My comments aren't that people can't get better. My comments are regarding the idea that people get better at everything at the same rate.

Also, although everyone will get better (at different rates), people have different upper limits.

My wife is a natural runner. I enjoy lifting weights. I have tried to get better at running, and she did CrossFit for a couple years. I got better at running, but it was improvement at a glacial piece, and I'll never run a marathon (like she has). She got better at weightlifting, but always struggled with it, and her PRs are less than half mine even though I'm only 10% heavier than her.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There's no way you can train and advance in grappling and not get better at it.

Agree with you 100% there.

The more that you wrestle, the more take down resistance ability that you will develop, the harder that your opponent can take you down. Your body will develop a natural "vibration" force to counter your opponent's take down.

If you have taken down your opponent by one of your wrestling skill over 1000 times, the chance that you may make that technique to work for the 1001th time will be high.

 

[drop bear]

That is true. You will match with people who are better/stronger athletically. Those are the people you have to beat with technique and craftiness.

Athleticism is something you get better at if you train as well.

The reason you would see individual talent appear randomly is if you grabbed a bunch of untrained people.

If I shoved fifty people in a pool. Some might be able to figure out how to swim.

If I went to a swimming school they really should all know how to swim.

 

[drop bear]

I don't even know where to begin with this, there is so much wrong with your thinking. Do you think that everyone has the same level of aptitude? Do you think that everyone learns everything in a linear rate?

When I was in school, there were some kids that were A students, some B students, some C students. Some people always got As and Bs in math and science, and struggled mightily in English and History. Others did great in English and Math, but bad in Science and History.

Some people are better at recreating forms and focusing on the details of the techniques. Others are better at reading people. Some people enjoy one aspect of the art over others. The parts you find more enjoyable and connect better with, are often the parts you'll improve on the most.

To assume that people will learn everything in the art at the same rate is an assumption so baffling to me, I can't even comprehend it. People aren't robots.

School is a pretty lack luster training example though and so relies more on natural talent.

This is why tutors are very important for academic success.

 

[drop bear]

That was a very enjoyable and fun video to watch. It reminded me a lot of the PKA fights I did back in the 80's-90's. A lot of variety in technique/style and size of opponent.

One reason MMA became more popular over PKA (and such)is that they do not stop when they go to the ground. That takes a different/higher level of conditioning and fight methodology.
Fight Science is aptly named. When I was in the Olympic circuit, my trainer was very good at training me for the last minute of the 1st round vs. the 3rd round or the last 30 seconds of a match etc... There are mental-physical connections that can be triggered with training. If @drop bear thinks this falls under conditioning, I agree.

Yeah pretty much. I keep hearing about this natural toughness or athletasism and all these other attributes people think are some how magical.

"We are the same level of technical skill but he always wins because he is fitter than me. I guess there is nothing I can do about genetics"

Or Mabye these martial artists that are getting physically out performed need to find a better strength and conditioning coach.

Mabye if they are getting out disciplined or beaten mentally they need a better motivational coach.

 

[Headhunter]

School is a pretty lack luster training example though and so relies more on natural talent.

This is why tutors are very important for academic success.

What a load of rubbish. I never had a tutor in my life and certainly wasn't naturally academic but I did just fine and ended up in the above average category for all school exams I took

 

[drop bear]

What a load of rubbish. I never had a tutor in my life and certainly wasn't naturally academic but I did just fine and ended up in the above average category for all school exams I took

Not really sure what point you are trying to make. Because we don't know what sort of training would have made what effects on the results you had.

But well done on your exams I guess.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That takes a different/higher level of conditioning and fight methodology.

That's true but it also deals out a lot more punishment and not everyone is into the "ground and pound" of fighting. People gotta go to work the next morning. You can't sell anything looking like this. ha ha ha.

Him: Welcome to McDonald's can I take your order please.

Me:

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I was in the Olympic circuit, my trainer was very good at training me for the last minute of the 1st round vs. the 3rd round or the last 30 seconds of a match etc... There are mental-physical connections that can be triggered with training. If @drop bear thinks this falls under conditioning, I agree.

I knew some of the guys in that video and I trained with them from time to time. They trained hard and actually made me improve the level of training that I did for myself and the students. My first time sparring with them, I gassed out big time. I didn't like that feeling, that weakness in me, so I changed up my training and added a lot of cardio and endurance training. I wanted to be able to fight at 90% with burst of 100% without gassing out. I wanted my last punch to be just as dangerous as the first.

It basically was almost 2 hours of non-stop movement. muscle conditioning and technique conditioning, get water keep going. Cardio and footwork conditioning, get water keep going. If you have to take a break then let it be a short one. We got 20 - 30 more reps to go. We would crank out almost 300 push- ups, 3 times as many punches, 3 times as many kicks, and when that was done, get water put on sparring gear application training 1 minute fighting your opponent after that minute was up you get a fresh opponent.

I miss those training sessions. If the student didn't know how to use Jow Ga by the end of the month then they just weren't trying, but at least they were in better shape and their forms got better.

Unfortunately people only train as hard as they think they need to. People often set a low bar thinking it's "high enough" until they mix it up with someone who is in better conditioning. I'll get back to that level of training again once I finish my rehab.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Get better at it, yes. But some people will make small steps and others great leaps.

I did 3 years of wrestling in middle school. Did I get better? Yes. Did I ever win a match? Only when I was fighting a weight class down. I sucked at it.

You have to put things in perspective. Were you better later on in your training than you were when you first started? Were you better in comparison to who? All of that makes a difference and is equally important as being the best.

Sucking at something means a person is just as horrible as he/she was when they first started. They haven't improved in any shape or form after all of that training. If that is happening, then a person can truly say that they suck at it. It doesn't mean that you have to stop training because it may be something you enjoy doing, but just embrace that you suck and keep going. It's like people who suck at singing but still sing. My wife is a horrible singer and it hurts my ears but I know it makes her happy so, I take the hit lol.

Now if someone sucks and that makes them unhappy, then that's when it's time to call it quits. In terms of sports, sometimes it's a wrong place and time situation. My first year in high school track was nothing but me losing. There was a lot of of competition from the senior class. By the time I was a senior all of my tough competition were long out of high school. I made it to City but not State. I won about 97% of my races. Part of my success was because I trained hard. The bigger part was because those who were better graduated. lol

 

[dvcochran]

I knew some of the guys in that video and I trained with them from time to time. They trained hard and actually made me improve the level of training that I did for myself and the students. My first time sparring with them, I gassed out big time. I didn't like that feeling, that weakness in me, so I changed up my training and added a lot of cardio and endurance training. I wanted to be able to fight at 90% with burst of 100% without gassing out. I wanted my last punch to be just as dangerous as the first.

It basically was almost 2 hours of non-stop movement. muscle conditioning and technique conditioning, get water keep going. Cardio and footwork conditioning, get water keep going. If you have to take a break then let it be a short one. We got 20 - 30 more reps to go. We would crank out almost 300 push- ups, 3 times as many punches, 3 times as many kicks, and when that was done, get water put on sparring gear application training 1 minute fighting your opponent after that minute was up you get a fresh opponent.

I miss those training sessions. If the student didn't know how to use Jow Ga by the end of the month then they just weren't trying, but at least they were in better shape and their forms got better.

Unfortunately people only train as hard as they think they need to. People often set a low bar thinking it's "high enough" until they mix it up with someone who is in better conditioning. I'll get back to that level of training again once I finish my rehab.

For two plus years leading up to the trials I trained 6 days/week 4 1/2 hours a day and worked a straight 40 hour/week job. My shift changed from time to time so I had to adjust my training hours. Plus we were already growing our farming operation. I look back and have no idea how I maintained the pace. I was/am clean, have never done any enhancements or supplements other than amino acids. My anaerobic capacity has always been very high.
Now a days I struggle with doing some kind of formal exercise for 30 minutes to a hour 6 days/week. Ironically, put me in the hay field and I can still outlast most guys.