Methodology against grappler. Your thoughts?

[colemcm]

'Cause stirring them is B.S.



I apologize for this in advance.

 

[Towel Snapper]

Theres no other way than to do some grappling yourself, so you know what they are trying to do, and have some ability to defend/attack with grappling yourself. (mix this with what Tai Chi has for TDD and youll be more than capable)

In MMA the best strikers without take down defense always loose to to even mediocre grapplers, grappling is the strongest SINGLE art 1v1. Theres no way around being a mixed martial artist anymore. Bruce Lee started all this and the Gracies advanced things a little as of late.

 

[Argus]

Theres no other way than to do some grappling yourself, so you know what they are trying to do, and have some ability to defend/attack with grappling yourself. (mix this with what Tai Chi has for TDD and youll be more than capable)

Agree with this.

In MMA the best strikers without take down defense always loose to to even mediocre grapplers, grappling is the strongest SINGLE art 1v1. Theres no way around being a mixed martial artist anymore. Bruce Lee started all this and the Gracies advanced things a little as of late.

Don't quite agree with this.

The general approach I see in MMA, and I may be over generalizing, is to counter BJJ with BJJ, and accept grappling when it happens. Of course, some fighters prefer to stay on their feet, but not nearly enough work goes into learning to avoid the ground, or grappling in general. Most TMA's are capable of defending against grapplers, but only if you do as the OP and actually practice against it and learn to apply your art. Cross training, not for the sake of fighting fire with fire, but in order to learn how fire works, is a good idea, though.

 

[Steve]

\
The general approach I see in MMA, and I may be over generalizing, is to counter BJJ with BJJ, and accept grappling when it happens. Of course, some fighters prefer to stay on their feet, but not nearly enough work goes into learning to avoid the ground, or grappling in general. Most TMA's are capable of defending against grapplers, but only if you do as the OP and actually practice against it and learn to apply your art. Cross training, not for the sake of fighting fire with fire, but in order to learn how fire works, is a good idea, though.

In MMA, the best anti-grapplers are solid grapplers. The quintessential example of this was Chuck Liddell. An excellent wrestler who used his skill as a wrestler to avoid the ground. The best way to stay on your feet to take advantage of your striking is to be a skilled grappler.

 

[drop bear]

What is your methodology or school of thought when fighting/sparring a grappler?

One which is popular, however not very practical in sparring do to risk of injury, is to strike the back of the neck and head with elbow or hand. Another is to raise your knee into there face. Both aggressive and not always going to work.

One I was contemplating is to step back and turn, pulling them past.

What are your thoughts here? What has worked for you? What do you theorize?

Use grappling but be better at it.


Was that some kind of a trick question?

 

[drop bear]

Agree with this.



Don't quite agree with this.

The general approach I see in MMA, and I may be over generalizing, is to counter BJJ with BJJ, and accept grappling when it happens. Of course, some fighters prefer to stay on their feet, but not nearly enough work goes into learning to avoid the ground, or grappling in general. Most TMA's are capable of defending against grapplers, but only if you do as the OP and actually practice against it and learn to apply your art. Cross training, not for the sake of fighting fire with fire, but in order to learn how fire works, is a good idea, though.

Not really. There are very few submissions pulled off these days. Is is more countering bjj with mma.

 

[jezr74]

Can we all handle three of these type of threads in seven days?

 

[drop bear]

Kind of like Mifune Kyuzo in this clip. Keep an eye on how he keeps his weight sunk and doesn't fight against his opponent's force. (This is a demonstration and is far less chaotic than it will be.)

I have done judo for about three weeks and I am comboing throws. Why isn't this guy?

 

[jezr74]

Is is more countering bjj with mma.

What do you mean?

 

[Steve]

Not really. There are very few submissions pulled off these days. Is is more countering bjj with mma.

What? I don't know about that. Armbars are tough when you're sweaty, but there are plenty of chokes. Head/arm chokes and RNCs are routine. Ground and pound sets up the choke as often as it results in a KO. Triangles aren't uncommon, nor are heel hooks. These are all techniques that aren't severely hamstrung by sweat, and can actually be easier to lock in with less friction.

 

[drop bear]

Fair enough, I should have made it clear I was being more general. Though the examples I gave were specific to a single leg or double leg, just in general shooting at my legs, my initial intent was a general method.

I completely agree and fully understand there is not a "one size fits all" which is of course is true for any potential confrontation being it good sportsmanship for competition or sparing. or a street conflict. My main thing was to get some ideas and thoughts on general methods. Such as have been stated "avoidance" "don't fight them at there specialty" etc.

I had an offer to train with some guys who do judo and jiujitsu. Obviously striking is out, and it's an opportunity to see things from a different perspective as I'm mainly a striker.

I'm interested to see what sorts of things will happen as they go in for there throws. I'm considering ways I might be able to pull pakua and taiji together to disrupt or throw them when they attempt to penetrate my guard for what ever it is they plan, locks, holds, grabs, throws etc.

Most of my sparring and training has been with the same style or in other cases still a strike situation. I think this will be a healthy growing experience for my martial arts.

Then do striking.it won't kill the jits guys. And will give you something to bring to the table.

Otherwise I did a thread on it.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/17-general-martial-arts-talk/115217-out-fighting-why-important.html

 

[Steve]

Can we all handle three of these type of threads in seven days?

Don't feel obligated to participate, if it's too much for you.

 

[drop bear]

What? I don't know about that. Armbars are tough when you're sweaty, but there are plenty of chokes. Head/arm chokes and RNCs are routine. Ground and pound sets up the choke as often as it results in a KO. Triangles aren't uncommon, nor are heel hooks. These are all techniques that aren't severely hamstrung by sweat, and can actually be easier to lock in with less friction.

There were two non choke submissions in the ufc this year aparently. Becoming less and less as peoples submission defence increases.

Been a few more now looks like. But still downward trend.
http://www.mma121.com/2014-ufc-mma-submission-statistics/

 

[drop bear]

What do you mean?

Bjj is traditionally a bottom game that uses grappling and submissions to negate striking.

Mma is a top game that uses grappling and striking to negate submissions. Wrestling is being used more these days.

 

[jezr74]

Don't feel obligated to participate, if it's too much for you.

Someone needs to represent the lower ranks.

 

[Steve]

Someone needs to represent the lower ranks.

Well. Make sure you stretch and rest if you need it.


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[Tony Dismukes]

Bjj is traditionally a bottom game that uses grappling and submissions to negate striking.

Mma is a top game that uses grappling and striking to negate submissions. Wrestling is being used more these days.

?? BJJ is not traditionally a bottom game, although some of the modern sport players have turned it into such. Classic traditional BJJ doctrine has always been that being on top is better. The guard is just an equalizer for when the other guy manages to get on top.

 

[Steve]

?? BJJ is not traditionally a bottom game, although some of the modern sport players have turned it into such. Classic traditional BJJ doctrine has always been that being on top is better. The guard is just an equalizer for when the other guy manages to get on top.

The hierarchy remains top mount, top knee on belly, top side control, top half guard, guard, bottom half guard, bottom side control, bottom knee on bell, bottom mount.

Guard is considered a neutral position, not an advantageous one.

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[Tony Dismukes]

The hierarchy remains top mount, top knee on belly, top side control, top half guard, guard, bottom half guard, bottom side control, bottom knee on bell, bottom mount.

Guard is considered a neutral position, not an advantageous one.

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Pretty much, except I would say that in a real fight (with strikes) top of guard still has a bit of an edge. Bottom of guard is as close to neutral as you are going to get from the bottom but it's still not completely equal.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I would agree with that as well Tony!