Methodology against grappler. Your thoughts?

[Blaze Dragon]

What is your methodology or school of thought when fighting/sparring a grappler?

One which is popular, however not very practical in sparring do to risk of injury, is to strike the back of the neck and head with elbow or hand. Another is to raise your knee into there face. Both aggressive and not always going to work.

One I was contemplating is to step back and turn, pulling them past.

What are your thoughts here? What has worked for you? What do you theorize?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

What is your methodology or school of thought when fighting/sparring a grappler?

One which is popular, however not very practical in sparring do to risk of injury, is to strike the back of the neck and head with elbow or hand. Another is to raise your knee into there face. Both aggressive and not always going to work.

One I was contemplating is to step back and turn, pulling them past.

What are your thoughts here? What has worked for you? What do you theorize?

Methodology against a grappler doing what? The defenses you listed are all possibilities against someone attacking you with a football tackle or a sloppy, incorrectly executed double-leg. There is a lot more to grappling than football tackles and sloppy double-legs.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Methodology against a grappler doing what? The defenses you listed are all possibilities against someone attacking you with a football tackle or a sloppy, incorrectly executed double-leg. There is a lot more to grappling than football tackles and sloppy double-legs.

Most people think that "single leg" and "double legs" are all a grappler can do. This is not a right assumption.

IMO, the first step to learn how to deal with a grapplier is to be able to deal with

- double over hooks
- double under hooks
- one over hook, one under hook
- ...

When your opponent can get you into under/over hook, he can take your striking ability away. I'll suggest the 1st simple lesson is to ask your opponent to under/over hook one of your arm. You then figure out how to get out of it. It will be a fun training and can be very useful in "clinch".

 

[seasoned]

What is your methodology or school of thought when fighting/sparring a grappler?

Avoidance.....

One which is popular, however not very practical in sparring do to risk of injury, is to strike the back of the neck and head with elbow or hand.

I definitely would not play his game, sticking to striking is what I would do.

Another is to raise your knee into there face. Both aggressive and not always going to work.

Never hand them your leg.

One I was contemplating is to step back and turn, pulling them past.

His game plan is to get you on the ground to nullify your power, your's should be to not be to quick to kick but use your hands to strike.

 

[Flying Crane]

i think this is a question that does not have concrete answers. too many variables, you cannot just say, "do this or do that"

capitalize on your strengths, do not play his game, do not let him get ahold of you, if you get taken down then create an opportunity to break away and get up. do not try to beat him at his own specialty. if you are a striker, then you should be striking him always, even when he has grabbed you. if he grabs you, do not respond by trying to out-grapple him.

if someone on the street intended to attack me with real malicious intent, and he attempted to seize me and in doing so he exposed the back of his neck, then of course i will drive my elbow into his spine. but to expect the scenario to play out in that manner is short-sighted.

i also believe it is unlikely that a skilled grappler like royce gracie will be attacking me. more likely it would be a wanna-be who has watched too much ufc, but has little or no training. i've probably got as much grappling training as most of those guys, and that is limited to wrestling with the neighbor kids in the back yard when i was a kid, and a bit of judo in college and japanese jj as an adult. but nothing extensive. so be realistic about who you are likely to face against. unless you plan on competition, you don't need to worry about champion-caliber grappling athletes.

 

[Xue Sheng]

As stated already...it all depends on the attack....and I will add...the direction of the force coming at you...there is no one size fits all defense against a grappler...or anyone else for that matter

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So we have 2 different kind of opinions:

- Use striking skill to deal with a grappler.
- Try to learn some grappling skill.

If this thread is changed into "Methodology against striker. Your thoughts? Will you answer the same way as you do now?

- Use grappling skill to deal with a striker.
- Try to learn some striking skill.

 

[Flying Crane]

So we have 2 different kind of opinions:

- Use striking skill to deal with a grappler.
- Try to learn some grappling skill.

If this thread is changed into "Methodology against striker. Your thoughts? Will you answer the same way as you do now?

- Use grappling skill to deal with a striker.
- Try to learn some striking skill.

whatever skills you train to use, that is what you use, no matter what the other guy is doing. you use YOUR skills. You don't try to switch skills just because the bad guy is using a certain "skillset".

 

[RTKDCMB]

The basic methodology for sparring/fighting with a grappler is to not let them get a hold of you.

 

[punisher73]

i also believe it is unlikely that a skilled grappler like royce gracie will be attacking me. more likely it would be a wanna-be who has watched too much ufc, but has little or no training. i've probably got as much grappling training as most of those guys, and that is limited to wrestling with the neighbor kids in the back yard when i was a kid, and a bit of judo in college and japanese jj as an adult. but nothing extensive. so be realistic about who you are likely to face against. unless you plan on competition, you don't need to worry about champion-caliber grappling athletes.

Depends on where you live. I live in Michigan, and when I went through school, wrestling was a BIG part of that in school activities. I think in the midwest in general this tends to be true. So, your chances of facing someone who was trained as a wrestler are pretty good. And you don't need to be a champion caliber wrestler to be good at the basic takedowns that you have practiced thousands of times on uncooperative people.

The best advice is to go and find some training with wrestlers and have them try to take you down and then explore what your options are. Also, have them teach you what THEY do to counter their own takedowns and see how that can be explored and integrated into what you do. It is one thing to have someone "play grappler" and try to take you down and then have an actual grappler try to take you down. Even if both are going slow for you, you will be able to only really understand the nuances of the attack when a grappler does it.

Look on youtube and you will find videos done by grapplers that show counters to various takedowns and bodylocks.

 

[colemcm]

Training to counter and avoid their movements is a good idea. Even better is to actually go and train with some wrestlers, Judoka, or BJJ guys. Get a feel for what it's like to be taken down and learn how they deal with being grappled. Gain an understanding of the common mistakes that non-grapplers make when taken to the ground. When they know what they're doing, you don't want to be trying to figure it out as you go along.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Fair enough, I should have made it clear I was being more general. Though the examples I gave were specific to a single leg or double leg, just in general shooting at my legs, my initial intent was a general method.

I completely agree and fully understand there is not a "one size fits all" which is of course is true for any potential confrontation being it good sportsmanship for competition or sparing. or a street conflict. My main thing was to get some ideas and thoughts on general methods. Such as have been stated "avoidance" "don't fight them at there specialty" etc.

I had an offer to train with some guys who do judo and jiujitsu. Obviously striking is out, and it's an opportunity to see things from a different perspective as I'm mainly a striker.

I'm interested to see what sorts of things will happen as they go in for there throws. I'm considering ways I might be able to pull pakua and taiji together to disrupt or throw them when they attempt to penetrate my guard for what ever it is they plan, locks, holds, grabs, throws etc.

Most of my sparring and training has been with the same style or in other cases still a strike situation. I think this will be a healthy growing experience for my martial arts.

 

[clfsean]

Fair enough, I should have made it clear I was being more general. Though the examples I gave were specific to a single leg or double leg, just in general shooting at my legs, my initial intent was a general method.

I completely agree and fully understand there is not a "one size fits all" which is of course is true for any potential confrontation being it good sportsmanship for competition or sparing. or a street conflict. My main thing was to get some ideas and thoughts on general methods. Such as have been stated "avoidance" "don't fight them at there specialty" etc.

I had an offer to train with some guys who do judo and jiujitsu. Obviously striking is out, and it's an opportunity to see things from a different perspective as I'm mainly a striker.

I'm interested to see what sorts of things will happen as they go in for there throws. I'm considering ways I might be able to pull pakua and taiji together to disrupt or throw them when they attempt to penetrate my guard for what ever it is they plan, locks, holds, grabs, throws etc.

Most of my sparring and training has been with the same style or in other cases still a strike situation. I think this will be a healthy growing experience for my martial arts.

Ummmm... nah. Gonna be blunt, but get ready to be tossed around & tied up like a pretzel. Just how it is.

 

[colemcm]

Sean's right. You're going about this backwards. Get the experience, then start working on theory and methods. . . Then get more experience, go back to the drawing-board, and restart again.

All martial arts exist in a cultural/historic context. Grappling is a major part of the context of our time and culture. Ignore it at your own peril.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Once talked with a Taijiquan guy (the real stuff not the health stuff) who had decided to go and train and a BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA school and he was having a ball and learning a lot, but he was not the only one. The guys he was training with were having a big issue with his rooting and relaxation. His relaxation was actually a pretty big issue for some of the grapplers he was training with. But he was also learning a lot about grappling too and loving every second of it and the guys he was training with were learning how to deal with someone who tends to be more relaxed and having a good time too

I have found the relaxation of Taiji in application can prove to be and issue for a lot of people from other styles. Now I am not saying that Taiji is superior to anything but what I am saying there are differences between styles that can really mess other style up…grappling included

 

[colemcm]

That was my experience with BJJ as well (being a Ta Chi guy, myself). That constant training of sinking your weight into your lower body and keeping your upper body relaxed makes throws and take-downs much more difficult to execute on you. Not impossible, but more difficult.

 

[colemcm]

Kind of like Mifune Kyuzo in this clip. Keep an eye on how he keeps his weight sunk and doesn't fight against his opponent's force. (This is a demonstration and is far less chaotic than it will be.)

 

[Xue Sheng]

My Taiji Shifu likes that clip of Mifune...and he rarely likes anything

 

[colemcm]

My Sifu liked it as well. He used to tell me, "Some of these Judo guys have good Tai Chi."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How to deal with a grappler? Try to "shake" him.