- Thread Starter
- #61
People (especially those not in MA) still take the arts way out of context! I don't know how many people still think it's all about kicking someone's "but", it sure seems like a lot (at least in my area).
Meeting your instructor in the street
- Thread starter bluemtn
- Start date
tkdgirl said:
The majority, I think. Being surrounded by people of like mind, we tend to become separated from the way outsiders (the majority of the population) perceive MA's. Take a step outside sometime and look in. You'll see what I mean.
Navarre
Master Black Belt
You're right, Gemini. I could walk into someplace wearing a jacket that read "Varsity Football" or ""All-State Wrestling Champion" and ppl would simply be interested.
If I walk in wearing anything that identifies me as a martial artist, suddenly everyone wants to ask me if I can break concrete and then try to cheap shot me to prove they can get the drop on me. Bizarre.
...and I'll be glad to take it as a compliment, TKDgirl. I'm sure you are fond of your brothers. No doubt you meant that they, like me, are witty and charming.
I'm sure you wouldn't imply that your brothers would make barely-concealed suggestions about the seductive allure of 17 year old girls. *hums a little tune while continuing to look innocent*
If I walk in wearing anything that identifies me as a martial artist, suddenly everyone wants to ask me if I can break concrete and then try to cheap shot me to prove they can get the drop on me. Bizarre.
...and I'll be glad to take it as a compliment, TKDgirl. I'm sure you are fond of your brothers. No doubt you meant that they, like me, are witty and charming.
I'm sure you wouldn't imply that your brothers would make barely-concealed suggestions about the seductive allure of 17 year old girls. *hums a little tune while continuing to look innocent*
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
OK, here is something to ponder for all of you who bow to your sensei in public or call him Sensei, Sifu, or whatever.
What if your instructor only teaches part time? What if he is with his co-workers? What if his co-workers don't know he is a martial arts instructor? What if he doesn't want his co-workers to know he is a martial arts instructor?
This happened to me in the late '80s. It caused me a lot of ribbing, a challenge match from a co-worker with no training and a pea-brain, and an unsolicited attack from behind by a co-worker who took one in the nuts as a result.
Sometimes, the greatest sign of respect is simply some discretion.
What if your instructor only teaches part time? What if he is with his co-workers? What if his co-workers don't know he is a martial arts instructor? What if he doesn't want his co-workers to know he is a martial arts instructor?
This happened to me in the late '80s. It caused me a lot of ribbing, a challenge match from a co-worker with no training and a pea-brain, and an unsolicited attack from behind by a co-worker who took one in the nuts as a result.
Sometimes, the greatest sign of respect is simply some discretion.
Solidman82
Purple Belt
If an instructor doesn't want to be known as such then they shouldn't have themself referred to as an instructor at all, simply a person who trains with another person and knows more. If someone higher ranked wanted to keep it a secret then he or she should tell his or her students.
Solidman82
Purple Belt
Wel, I tried to get people to call me God all the time, but then some people started trying to excorcise me.
Tgace
Grandmaster
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I agree...even in the military you dont salute officers when you are both in civilian clothes. And I typically refer to someone I do not have a personal relationship of some sort with as Sir or Ma'am, unless they have specifically asked me do do otherwise.
Different scenario. I would do as you do. But when your Sabumnim is Korean, and that is their custom, to not do so is considered rude. If my situation where as you described, I would act accordingly. It's just a question of manners. Different cultures, different manners.Old Fat Kenpoka said:
- Thread Starter
- #74
The other day, I was talking to this stranger and kept calling him sir. He gave me a kind of weird look, and said that he wasn't used to be called sir. My general rule is, if someone on the street is older than me, they're automatically a sir/ma'am. Although I have called those younger than me that as well. I think I called my instructor "mr..." (again, he seemed fine with that).
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Difficult to answer, so I'll cite some more specific cases from my own experiences. I'll limit my focus to those instructors of mine who were significantly higher in rank than I ever achieved in that specific style.
First of all, the most important factor is what the instructor wants. If a senior instructor insists that we must refer to him by his title outside of the dojo, then that's what I'll do.
I've only had one instructor that did this, but at the same time, that's where the line is drawn. I'll speak to him casually when we're discussing non-serious matters, and I'll even slug back a few rounds of beer when my fellow instructors and the chief instructor goes out for a few. We'll crack some jokes here and there, so it's not an imposing thing. Still, though, if he wants to be addressed by the title, then there's no argument from me.
Now, if a senior instructor does not say anything, as to how he wishes to be addressed, I'll still use the title outside of the dojo, until he either tells me that I shouldn't use the title anymore. The way I see it, it's simply best to err on the side of caution.
If a senior instructor says that we can call him by his first name outside of the dojo, then I'll do that if that's what he prefers.
Which one is the right way? They can all be correct under specific circumstances. I've made mental notes of all of the senior instructors that I've trained under, and their preferences, but if I ever forget, or am not 100% sure of their preferences, I'll default to the title. As I stated earlier, it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution.
On another note, none of the senior instructors under whom I've trained, have ever insisted that I bow to them outside of the dojo. I'll still give a small nod of the head when addressing them, regardless of whether titles are used or not. Maybe it's just habit, since I was required to give a quick nod of the head when addressing all of the other Korean parents when I was a kid.
My preferences, when dealing with my students, are simple: use the title when inside the dojo or doing dojo-related functions. If, however, we meet outside of the dojo in a non-dojo related function, then they can call me either by first name, if they're adults, or by my other "title" of Dr. (insert last name here) if they're children.
If they're friends of mine, they'd better call me by my first name or even by my last name only, or else I'll be grumbling something about how they shouldn't be using titles in a sarcastic manner.
First of all, the most important factor is what the instructor wants. If a senior instructor insists that we must refer to him by his title outside of the dojo, then that's what I'll do.
I've only had one instructor that did this, but at the same time, that's where the line is drawn. I'll speak to him casually when we're discussing non-serious matters, and I'll even slug back a few rounds of beer when my fellow instructors and the chief instructor goes out for a few. We'll crack some jokes here and there, so it's not an imposing thing. Still, though, if he wants to be addressed by the title, then there's no argument from me.
Now, if a senior instructor does not say anything, as to how he wishes to be addressed, I'll still use the title outside of the dojo, until he either tells me that I shouldn't use the title anymore. The way I see it, it's simply best to err on the side of caution.
If a senior instructor says that we can call him by his first name outside of the dojo, then I'll do that if that's what he prefers.
Which one is the right way? They can all be correct under specific circumstances. I've made mental notes of all of the senior instructors that I've trained under, and their preferences, but if I ever forget, or am not 100% sure of their preferences, I'll default to the title. As I stated earlier, it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution.
On another note, none of the senior instructors under whom I've trained, have ever insisted that I bow to them outside of the dojo. I'll still give a small nod of the head when addressing them, regardless of whether titles are used or not. Maybe it's just habit, since I was required to give a quick nod of the head when addressing all of the other Korean parents when I was a kid.
My preferences, when dealing with my students, are simple: use the title when inside the dojo or doing dojo-related functions. If, however, we meet outside of the dojo in a non-dojo related function, then they can call me either by first name, if they're adults, or by my other "title" of Dr. (insert last name here) if they're children.
If they're friends of mine, they'd better call me by my first name or even by my last name only, or else I'll be grumbling something about how they shouldn't be using titles in a sarcastic manner.
Bowing seems excessive to me. Using "Mr./Ms." and "Sir/Ma'am" should suffice, no?
I'm a Ph.D. so I don't use Dr. except at the college. If my college students run into me in town, I'd expect to be addressed as Mr. That's the general type of reasoning I use in the martial arts--formal and polite, but not dojo etiquette in the supermarket.
I'm a Ph.D. so I don't use Dr. except at the college. If my college students run into me in town, I'd expect to be addressed as Mr. That's the general type of reasoning I use in the martial arts--formal and polite, but not dojo etiquette in the supermarket.
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
cali_tkdbruin said:
This is sort of like when I was in the military some years back. If I came across some of my superiors, like our division officers, in town going about their business, I was still expected to refer to them as sir/ma'am and show the decorum of respect that was expected of our unit. Not necessarily hand salute while in civies, but still call them sir or ma'am. Anyway, the martial arts are after all military in nature, hence the name MAs right?
Maltair
Blue Belt
My brother told me about a situation:
There was a visiting black belt, she was all of 14 years old, very talented though. In his TKD, they were expected to bow and greet just like in the dojo, very formal school.
He saw her outside the school once and she was with a bunch of friends, my brother was getting ready to bow and saw the look on her face, he stopped and just said hi, waving his hand.
Later, back in class she said thanxs for not being so formal, that would have really imbarresed me. She's pretty humble about her skills.
And it does depend on the situation and the person.
There was a visiting black belt, she was all of 14 years old, very talented though. In his TKD, they were expected to bow and greet just like in the dojo, very formal school.
He saw her outside the school once and she was with a bunch of friends, my brother was getting ready to bow and saw the look on her face, he stopped and just said hi, waving his hand.
Later, back in class she said thanxs for not being so formal, that would have really imbarresed me. She's pretty humble about her skills.
And it does depend on the situation and the person.
I think "Sir" or "Ma'am" is appropriate. Bowing probably not. My 1st instructor was a Korean guy & it was always "yes sir. No sir" inside & outside or class. Which made trips to the pizza place next door very funny. I was in high school, so it was ingrained very strongly for me. To this day when I meet a Korean adult, its a hard habit to break. There's a Korean man in his early 50's that I box with @ the gym. I always greet him in Korean. We're buddies, & its helped bond us a bit.
With my students, I tell them inside of class is more formal, outside, they don't have to call me, sir. Some still do.
With my students, I tell them inside of class is more formal, outside, they don't have to call me, sir. Some still do.
arnisador said:
That about sounds right..My first Sensei use to frequent the bar I worked at and I was permitted to use his first name because that's how I was introduced to him..I won't bore you with what happened the one time in the Dojo where I slipped and addressed him by his first name and not Semsei..
