Meet Lindsey Stone

[jks9199]

I try to be careful, and make sure that there are a couple of removes to identify my employer from my on-line activity. I'm not saying nobody could determine who I work for -- just that it would take a couple of steps. Even so -- I have a disclaimer, to further separate my employer from my posts. And I generally avoid posting anything I'd not be willing to stand in front of the chief and explain.

This young lady showed rather poor manners, and worse judgement -- but I also agree that her actions and decisions have been fueled by the dumbing down of our society in response to the popularity of shows like Jackass, Jersey Shore, the feuding motorcycle builders, and the gate crashing DC "power" couple whom nobody had heard of and are in bankruptcy. Behavior that once would have been cause for ridicule or shunning is instead rewarded by more fame. So... it's no real surprise when we get people with no clue about proper behavior and people who think that being outrageous is cool. And then they often don't understand why they're not being applauded -- because J-Wow or whoever would have been.

 

[Tgace]

She self admits to being a "douchebag". I dont know if I want to employ one of those in a position that involves contact with my customers.

I must admit though that "there but for the grace of God go I'...who knows what sort of trouble I may have gotten into if I could have published photos/vid instantly for all to see? However THAT is exactly the sort of world we live in now so it behooves all of us to think before we hit that "SEND" button.

 

[Tgace]

I kind of like the comment made by "MCPO NYC USN (Ret.)" on the originating site.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32934

“Obviously she meant no disrespect.”

The problem with douchebags … they were raised by douchebag parents, schooled at douchebag institutions of lower education, and most of their friends are douchebags. Their close relatives are all douchebags, most of the holiday cards and greetings they recieve throughout the year are from fellow douchebags. No doubt their siblings are all douchebags too. They support and vote for douchebags and shop at stores owned by douchebags. When douchebags go to hell, as they all do, they will be in good company … with every other douchebag that had gone before them … kinda like an eternal douchebag association.

:uhyeah:

 

[oftheherd1]

I really don't like what Ms Stone did, nor do I like the fact that she thought it was so cool that she posted it online. I am not sure that what she did raises to the level of a statement that is protected by free speech, or at least should be. I don't know if she walks through life making anti-government statements at every opportunity. Even so, it would appear that what she did may have been protected.

The come those who disagree with her completely, without reservation, nor fear of saying so. Do they have the same rights to free speech?

 

[granfire]

I really don't like what Ms Stone did, nor do I like the fact that she thought it was so cool that she posted it online. I am not sure that what she did raises to the level of a statement that is protected by free speech, or at least should be. I don't know if she walks through life making anti-government statements at every opportunity. Even so, it would appear that what she did may have been protected.

The come those who disagree with her completely, without reservation, nor fear of saying so. Do they have the same rights to free speech?

It depends on how they voice their opinion.
Sending her threats is not a protected means of speech. (and calling for her to be fired from her job is over the top, but probably not illegal)

 

[Tez3]

As an 'anti governent' protest it was pretty feeble, she needn't be pleased with herself as it cost her nothing. All she would get back is comments as she lives in country that allows her to make anti government statements. If she'd done it in a country where such things are punished by imprisonment or worse it would have meant something.
It was also a pretty pathetic attempt too, if she'd actually shown some thought, highlighted a particular issue or something she'd really wanted to protest about it would have made her look less like a young child finding out that they can say a 'rude' word and make adults react. I think the reaction to her should be along the lines of 'yes dear aren't you clever...now get your crayons and draw me a nice picture/go play with your dollies/have a nice little nap', she should be treated as the little child she actually is, when she grows up she can be treated like an adult.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121120/NEWS11/121129978

HYANNIS – A Plymouth woman who posted a photo of herself making an obscene gesture at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington National Cemetery has been placed on unpaid leave from her job at a home for the disabled.

Lindsey Stone, 30, and her co-worker Jamie Schuh – who took the photo – were placed on unpaid leave while their employer, LIFE – which stands for Living Independently Forever – investigates the incident, according to a statement by executive director Diane Enochs.

Stone is listed as a case/money manager at the LIFE home in Hyannis, and Schuh, of Mashpee, is listed as a supported independent living director.

30....this is a 30 YO woman. I think the "youthful indescretion" excuse is invalid here.

But adding to what Tez said. A phenomena I see more and more of is these "30 something" year old "douchebags". Man Children mostly, but apparently some women are in the ranks as well.

As a matter of fact I have one in my family. In his 30's but acts like hes in his early 20's. No real job, supported by mommy, partying every weekend, getting arrested at least yearly, drug use, dating/abusing girls who are far too young for him. Soon he will be that wierd "old guy" at the bar hitting on the 21 yo girls.

What happened to acting like an adult?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I see that we've finished our introspection and are moving straight back into 'she should be boiled in oil and flayed alive' territory again. Sad.

Here's a refreshing perspective. By the way, folks, 'perspective' is a good word. Think about getting some at some point. This one comes from a slightly different point of view; that of the outrage specifically directed at those who appear to be disrespectful of veterans.

http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-stone-2012-11

No, Lindsey Stone's Life Shouldn't Be Ruined Over A Stupid Facebook Post
...
When we came across the photo yesterday of Lindsey Stone raising her middle finger at the Arlington National Cemetery, we decided to pass on making comment or adding to the viral storm around it. Gawker's refreshingly reasonable question was, should the woman in the picture, Lindsey Stone, have her life ruined over the photo?
We figured she had enough on her plate without us adding to it.
When my reporter Geoff and I, both military veterans, closed the page, we even laughed about the picture.
But as outrage grows — leading to posts across the Internet and Facebook groups devoted to getting her fired — I feel compelled to defend her.
Stone was at the cemetery on an office trip. She's pretending to be neither silent or respectful next to a sign that demands she be both and clearly seems she was just joshing around trying to get a laugh. As in, "Look it says I can't. But I am." I get it. I remember standing on the wall of a deep gorge in high school that had the words Do Not Stand here painted on it. I took a picture of my shoe beside them. These are silly, immature, little rebellions.
The young woman said herself in a followup Facebook post: "Whoa whoa whoa... wait. This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign. OBVIOUSLY we meant NO disrespect to people that serve or have served our country."

...

The blind adoration of the military and its personnel is getting creepy, and I'm talking from the inside looking out. While correcting the ugly way Vietnam veterans were treated is good, the over-compensation needs to stop. Putting on a uniform doesn't change who you are and questioning institutions and individuals, including the military and its troops, is good and healthy.

Yeah, as a military veteran myself, I get it.

Not only that, but I also feel strongly that most of the adoration and public ***-kissing of the military of late is completely fake. It's phony. It's disgusting.

I see the signs people put on their cars, and the 'love' they say they feel for the troops.

Then I go to the Detroit Veteran's Day Parade and see maybe 100 people lined up to see the parade on a several-mile route, about 1500 or more veterans marching in it.


IMGP9116_v1 by Wigwam Jones, on Flickr

But people get upset if someone says or does something that appears to be disrespectful to the military. Hmmm. I wonder where all those patriotic people are on Veterans Day, Memorial Day, and so on?

I didn't see them at the parade. I didn't see them at the cemetery. I didn't see them wearing a uniform or carrying a rifle. But they're offended on my behalf if someone does something to disrespect the war dead.

Hmmm.

Come up to me at the Memorial Day service at Great Lakes National Cemetery and tell me you love the troops; I'll believe it.

Get angry and demand some young idiot be fired for doing something moronic at a National Cemetery and I don't think so.

 

[Tgace]

I see that we've finished our introspection and are moving straight back into 'she should be boiled in oil and flayed alive' territory again. Sad.

Who's said that?

 

[Tgace]

Instead of simply rewording the same thought Ill re-post a response to that webpage Bill:

Jose Gonzalez on Nov 21, 7:59 AM said: Shocked at the defense. While you defend her right for freedom of speech, the author also absolves Lindsey Stone of personal responsibility. Yes, we Americans have the right of freedom of speech....However, that right must also be tempered with the responsibility of your actions. Generally, it can be agreed that a non-profit relies on donations and drives to achieve the funding necessary for it's mission. Pulling a pr stunt such as Lindsey Stone can put those donations at risk. You mention doing a rebellious act when you were in High School. She is not in High School. Lindsey Stone was on a office trip to the United States and was standing at a cemetery that is designated for those that have died so that we, who live, may have certain freedoms and rights. But we are all responsible to exercise those freedoms with responsibility. You claim that the military is reaching a blind adoration but I disagree. People are becoming more aware that the soldiers are people and they have families. If people had such blind adoration, equipment would be better for the soldiers, life on base would be better and not run by civilians who don't care about military personnel, etc. As former military and a military brat of 3 generations of Army soldiers, I can tell you there is a difference between standing at the edge of a cliff next to a sign that says, "Don't stand here" and giving the bird and mocking a sign next to a Tomb that houses the dead that will not get the proper recognition they deserve due to their anonymity.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-stone-2012-11#ixzz2CrywvWvh

While I can be with you on the "lets be reasonable" stance on what she did..I don't know if Im ready to go down the "blind adoration for the military" path.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Who's said that?

I exaggerate to emphasize. We're back to 'actions have consequences' without regard to the fact that people are howling for her to lose her job (apparently she and her manager have been suspended now) and she and her family are receiving death threats (despite having apologized repeatedly). What nice people we all are. Everyone's outraged. Everyone wants something done. Get out the pitchforks and the torches, we're gonna fix her wagon right now.

At least she was AT a national cemetery. When I visit them, I seldom see anyone but veterans and their families. All these outraged people? I doubt they've ever set foot in one, let alone worn a uniform or gone in harm's way.

I'm starting to get a little irritated by this nonsensical jingoistic display of righteous indignation over a young woman's stupid mistake. Like they have anything to be indignant over.

 

[Tgace]

To be honest. If I was actually standing there and observed her posing for this shot...while I would roll my eyes at yet another "douchebag" in the world...I doubt I would have bothered thinking much more about it.

Again. Is this really "new" human behavior or is it simply "tar and feathering" in the digital age?

 

[Tgace]

I wonder how this "got out"..sure, unsecured FB pictures are in the public square, but in "real world" what usually happens is that someone she "friended" took offense and sent it viral.

 

[Tgace]

:uhyeah:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

To be honest. If I was actually standing there and observed her posing for this shot...while I would roll my eyes at yet another "douchebag" in the world...I doubt I would have bothered thinking much more about it.

Again. Is this really "new" human behavior or is it simply "tar and feathering" in the digital age?

Well, yes, I agree.

Yesterday, I was making the point that we've created a new society where 'peer pressure' has turned into the Scarlet Letter of days gone by - and worse.

Today, the article I just linked to was making the point, which I had not thought of, but I agree with, that this particular incident is yet another example of extreme patriotism or military-worship gone too far. And while I am old enough to remember with what disrespect the military was held in the years during and immediately after Vietnam, and I'm glad they are over, I think we've gone way, way, too far now.

Worse, it's a surface-level patriotism. Real lovers of the military would be out actually supporting the troops or showing their respect for them, rather than simply taking the easy road of mouthing platitudes and becoming outraged when the military is disrespected. I frankly feel horrible inside when I take my annual photos at the Veterans Day parade and see how empty the streets are. The few people I see watching who are not family of those marching are generally passers-by and homeless people who happened to see a parade going on. Damned few people make plans to come see the veterans march. They don't have to; it's a free country. But when they tell me how much the love the military, yet have never done one thing to show their support except run their yaps, I don't really see it. This attack on a stupid young woman is vicious, cruel, over-the-top, and frankly, done by hypocrites. At least she was *in* a national cemetery. I'll bet a lot of the people ripping her a new one have never even set foot in one, nor do they know where the nearest one is to them. They're SO patriotic, aren't they?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

:uhyeah:

I've seen this before. And yet, none of THOSE people are losing their jobs. Are they not disrespectful too? Do they not also deserve to be dragged out in the street and beaten like dogs? No?

 

[Tgace]

I've seen this before. And yet, none of THOSE people are losing their jobs. Are they not disrespectful too? Do they not also deserve to be dragged out in the street and beaten like dogs? No?

Well to be realistic Bill. There's a difference between this video and a person clowning and "mocking". I get your point but there was a difference in intent here. Did Lindsey have any "real" intent to be offensive or to be insulting of the deceased Vets? I doubt it. Should she be fired? Thats not my call and I really don't care if she is or isnt. But I do agree that some people seem FAR too interested in stringing her up. I don't think it's worth the hassle.

My thoughts have been centering around how people like her..a 30 YO woman on a business trip..lack the ability to maintain decorum. Maybe as I age Im getting more crotchety and just see it more...maybe my job has made me more cynical...but her behavior and the mentality of sharing it depresses me a bit.

Shes the one who "put it out there", and it is in the media so I feel no shame in expressing my opinion on it. As is my right too.

 

[Tgace]

I don't know if its really "military adoration gone too far". I think that there are simply many people who have loved ones in the military or killed on deployment. I attended the funeral of a fallen commerade and I think most of us have a connection to someone who made the ultimate sacrifice in some way. And parades in general just dont get the attendence they used to Bill. I had to work my fair share of them...its not like when we were kids. I don't know if parade attendence is a fair barometer to judge peoples attitude towards veterans.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well to be realistic Bill. There's a difference between this video and a person clowning and "mocking". I get your point but there was a difference in intent here. Did Lindsey have any "real" intent to be offensive or to be insulting of the deceased Vets? I doubt it. Should she be fired? Thats not my call and I really don't care if she is or isnt.

My thoughts have been centering around how people like her..a 30 YO woman on a business trip..lack the ability to maintain decorum. Maybe as I age Im getting more crotchety and just see it more...maybe my job has made me more cynical...but her behavior and the mentality of sharing it depresses me a bit.

Shes the one who "put it out there", and it is in the media so I feel no shame in expressing my opinion on it. As is my right too.

Yes, people are less respectful than they once were, and seem to mature more slowly. I guess our society permits it. Frat-boy college behavior by young men and women seem to go on into the middle thirties these days, but it might just be my observation looking back from my fifties. I recall not being very mature myself until rather later.

Of course it is your right to express your opinion. I even agree with it, for the most part. My statements revolve around those who seem to be pre-occupied with making sure she is properly 'punished' for her behavior, posting on her employer's FB page to demand she be fired (looks like they might win that one) and those few clot-heads making actual threats of violence against her family.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know if its really "military adoration gone too far". I think that there are simply many people who have loved ones in the military or killed on deployment. I attended the funeral of a fallen commerade and I think most of us have a connection to someone who made the ultimate sacrifice in some way. And parades in general just dont get the attendence they used to Bill. I had to work my fair share of them...its not like when we were kids. I don't know if parade attendence is a fair barometer to judge peoples attitude towards veterans.

My wife an I also attend the Thanksgiving parade in Detroit. Same street. Hundreds of thousands was last year's estimate. Hundreds of thousands. Versus a couple hundred, tops, for the Veterans Day parade a few weeks earlier.

And it's been like this for years now. I am part of the group that organizes this parade - I don't do the planning - because I am not a Vietnam-era veteran and they run it - but I send letters to the various news organizations and try to get them to run announcements, put it on their calendars on their web pages, do an interview, provide coverage of the parade, ANYTHING. It's like pulling frickin' teeth. This year, Fox news was there, first time that I can recall, and it was great to see them. I did not see our fine friends at ABC, CBS, NBC, and the other major networks; to them, it just didn't exist. I contact them; many of us contacted them. I didn't even get the courtesy of a response. No coverage, no spectators, no respect. And yet everyone is outraged about what some young moron did in a photo in front of a sign at a national cemetery. Hmmm. Yeah, not buying it.