MCMAP

[hoshin1600]

So when a Marine is on the battlefield vs. an ISIS fighter.....both are unarmed, no knives, no rocks around, nothing....they're both facing each other, standing up....how would such a fight to the death usually start if they're 3 feet away from each other?

well it aint gonna look like an MMA ring fight.

 

[Tez3]

So when a Marine is on the battlefield vs. an ISIS fighter.....both are unarmed, no knives, no rocks around, nothing....they're both facing each other, standing up....how would such a fight to the death usually start if they're 3 feet away from each other?

The Marine would stand a lot further back and then dive to the ground. That's because he used his intelligence, called for back up and an Apache helicopter is about to fire on the Daesh fighter, obliterating him into dust. The Marine stands up, brushes himself down and smiles, because he fights smart.
If you are going to talk nonsense try and remember that a Marine ( British or American) would not be on his own, his oppos are there for him.

Of course if they were British Royal Marines they are likely to be hanging onto the Apache because they don't leave anyone behind as I believe American Marines don't.
BBC NEWS | UK | Helicopter rescue bid for Marine

 

[FriedRice]

The Marine would stand a lot further back and then dive to the ground. That's because he used his intelligence, called for back up and an Apache helicopter is about to fire on the Daesh fighter, obliterating him into dust. The Marine stands up, brushes himself down and smiles, because he fights smart.
If you are going to talk nonsense try and remember that a Marine ( British or American) would not be on his own, his oppos are there for him.

Of course if they were British Royal Marines they are likely to be hanging onto the Apache because they don't leave anyone behind as I believe American Marines don't.
BBC NEWS | UK | Helicopter rescue bid for Marine

Dodging again?

 

[FriedRice]

well it aint gonna look like an MMA ring fight.

What does it look like then?

 

[hoshin1600]

What does it look like then?

well a one on one with no weapons is pure fiction fantasy but ill entertain the idea. it would start with the marine running at the other guy full bore and crashing into him like a linebacker.

 

[lklawson]

Agreed, I was Army, have a lot of Marine friends. Army Combatives and Marine Corp Martial Arts are two entirely different beasts. Combatives didn't exist when I was active. Some of my buddies, who are old timers and still in, had me come back to train different units in CQC, because they didn't care for Combatives, wanting something closer to MCMAP in practicality.

"Combatives" have always existed in the U.S. Army. There are training manuals for the Army for "melee" style weapons going back to the Revolutionary War. Fencing and Bayonet manuals were particularly important and stickfighting and barehanded techniques were documented and taught.

Of particular interest is the Judo and Boxing taught to recruits during WWI. Movie clips are easily found.

"Combatives" were also particularly important in WWII.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

Dodging again?

Dodging what? As you may have noticed I'm not American and know nothing about MCCAP. I do know an awful lot about our military though, I suspect you know sweet FA about any mans army and just like trying to get people to bite, that just makes you a bone.

 

[FriedRice]

Dodging what? As you may have noticed I'm not American and know nothing about MCCAP. I do know an awful lot about our military though, I suspect you know sweet FA about any mans army and just like trying to get people to bite, that just makes you a bone.

so what rank was this guy:

 

[FriedRice]

well a one on one with no weapons is pure fiction fantasy but ill entertain the idea. it would start with the marine running at the other guy full bore and crashing into him like a linebacker.

Thanks. Sounds like MMA.

 

[Tez3]

so what rank was this guy:

You aren't very original are you, same old, same old. My assessment of his rank is that it's the same as yours ie cockwomble.

 

[FriedRice]

You aren't very original are you, same old, same old. My assessment of his rank is that it's the same as yours ie cockwomble.

You don't like? And show me who else made this joke?

 

[Nobody Important]

"Combatives" have always existed in the U.S. Army. There are training manuals for the Army for "melee" style weapons going back to the Revolutionary War. Fencing and Bayonet manuals were particularly important and stickfighting and barehanded techniques were documented and taught.

Of particular interest is the Judo and Boxing taught to recruits during WWI. Movie clips are easily found.

"Combatives" were also particularly important in WWII.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

True, but the modern combatives created by Lawson replaced them. That is what I was speaking to. It was not in existence when I served.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sounds exactly like MMA Lite, if it's taking most of it's techniques from MMA but not using them at full power. And same goes for the weaponry. A guy who works at Safeway that trains Kali 3x a week for a year, will greatly exceeds the skills of a 1 year Marine when it comes to knife, stick fighting, etc. Thus, Kali Lite. It seems that you're taking this personally somehow, but you're not a Marine though right?

Once again different goals and a different time frame to teach soldiers compared to someone training weekly year round.

Yea, it looks like Kali Lite, which was what I later said....MMA Lite + Kali Lite.

Once again you are insulting every marine and the marine instructors that came up with MCMAP. It is MCMAP and that is a unique martial system for the United States Marines.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sounds exactly like MMA Lite, if it's taking most of it's techniques from MMA but not using them at full power. And same goes for the weaponry.

I wouldn't categorize MCMAP as taking all of its techniques from mma. The instructors that came together looked at various martial systems and incorporated techniques from them not just mma.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It seems that you're taking this personally?

Really, I just think you have very little clue with what you are talking about so I am trying to correct your misinformation during the course of this thread.

 

[drop bear]

You are correct.

After my last post, I decided to read a little further. As is often the case, people tend to only see from their MA perspective. That is understandable. Why would someone study an MA they didn't believe in? However, one is best served by knowing disadvantages of their system, and advantages of others. Fewer surprises that way.

But I must admit, I am surprised at those who cannot understand that different fighting/combat objectives will often dictate the teaching and practice of different skills. I sometimes wonder if some who are most adamant about the taught military combat skills being inadequate, don't even believe what they say. If they do, they are incredibly narrowly focused.

As to Drop Bear's "This constant rhetoric of being the best of the best of the best. May get you over the line in a fight. But it is not exactly accurate." comment, perhaps being engaged in training for life or death struggles is different. Perhaps? No. Most of us here trained a martial art because we wanted to. How many have we seen begin and then quit. In the military you don't normally have that option. So it may be necessary to keep bolstering a combat person's confidence. And the Marine Corps from all I have seen, does just that.

Many of you here no doubt do have that confidence in yourself. You do accept being hurt from time to time. If your MA has a sparring component, you do not expect death to be a common part of that. Combat arms face that always.

Drop Bear, in my opinion, your comment "I mean we learned falure is not an option in Mc Map training but they spar. Half of those guys are going to fail." although a clever turn of phrase, is frankly contemptible. What experience do you have that qualifies you to make judgement on training of military combat arms?

And Drop Bear, although you said "I have no issue with Mc Map i think it is a good system. But if it was my head on the block i would recognise its limitations and address them." as I said, all martial arts have advantages and weaknesses. And the Marine Corps initiation of MCMAP is intended to be an improvement over past methods of training. But of course, you wouldn't know that.

I hope I am not being too strong with Drop Bear. It is not my intent. But I simply believe he does not really understand, and I would only seek to clarify things he may not know or understand. Others also.

Who am I to judge god?

You went there?

When I see Mc Map training contain something that I havent done I will believe there is a secret sauce. Untill then I will call it like I see it. If you have an issue with my statement. You can adress that.

A big problem with your mindset is you are going to have marines that have done Mc Map who will tell you its awesome and everbody else.

Then if everybody who hasnt killed a guy with McMap in a war cannot comment you create this tragic mistique of isolation. Isolation doesnt help a system.

We do of course have access to the opinions of guys who have done the system.
MCMAP training not good? [Archive] - Marine Corps - USMC Community

 

[drop bear]

well it aint gonna look like an MMA ring fight.

Well we have acces to someone who did hand to hand with an enemy soldier in war time.

Interesting about where he got his mindset.

 

[drop bear]

I wouldn't categorize MCMAP as taking all of its techniques from mma. The instructors that came together looked at various martial systems and incorporated techniques from them not just mma.

That is a hard category to pin down though. As MMA is not one single beast.

There is definitely an MMA vibe to the training. With the resisted training and the focus on these solid basics. Even the weapons with its sparring base is very MMA.

When I did combatives it was very krav. Compiant drills. Super deadly ninja chops to stationary oponants. It is getting a revamp at the moment.

 

[hoshin1600]

When I see Mc Map training contain something that I havent done I will believe there is a secret sauce. Untill then I will call it like I see it. If you have an issue with my statement. You can adress that.

exactly my sentiment as well. show me something that is in MMA that you cant find in a TMA system. there is nothing new under the sun. man has been involved in combat for thousands of years.

 

[oftheherd1]

Who am I to judge god?

You went there?

When I see Mc Map training contain something that I havent done I will believe there is a secret sauce. Untill then I will call it like I see it. If you have an issue with my statement. You can adress that.

A big problem with your mindset is you are going to have marines that have done Mc Map who will tell you its awesome and everbody else.

Then if everybody who hasnt killed a guy with McMap in a war cannot comment you create this tragic mistique of isolation. Isolation doesnt help a system.

We do of course have access to the opinions of guys who have done the system.
MCMAP training not good? [Archive] - Marine Corps - USMC Community

I may have a problem, but I can't make any sense of any of that. But it probably doesn't make any difference.