Bujinkan Bashing

[Highland Ninja]

I watched the video. Well, chalk up 4 minutes of my life flushed down the toilet.

All I have to say is, what sort of mental or emotional illness drives a person to produce a 4 minute video designed to denigrate an art they clearly have no experience with? That's clearly not a sign of mental health.

Bah. Ignore them.

I'm off to throw some shuriken and make up for those 4 flushed minutes. :supcool:

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Yeah..well I for one gotta admit that I let the clip get the best of me. Its just that with all the Hollywood movies in the 80's portraying ninjutsu negatively. And with the neo-ninja koga guys making it even worse. I probably reached my limit after watching the clip. I bow in humbleness.

 

[SageGhost83]

Youtube is not exactly the place to find educated individuals if you know what I mean. There will always be people who bash any and every art - that is just the nature of the arts. This particular person is dumber than a sack of bricks and twice as dense. It seems that his purpose is nothing more than to bash Bujinkan. I wouldn't pay him any attention and I wouldn't let him get you all angry - that is exactly what he wants! The fact that Bujinkan is worldwide speaks to its effectiveness as an art. Seems that he is just jealous because he isn't in the Bujinkan, himself. Mister "I can't do it, so I'll support the latest "in" thing in the martial arts community and use it to attack the really cool club that I wasn't able to get into"...Well, you get my point. Long live the Bujinkan!

 

[SageGhost83]

Youtube is not exactly the place to find educated individuals if you know what I mean.

There are youtubers who are doing martial arts home study via posted videos. Nintaijutsu, anyone?

 

[Cryozombie]

I watched the second video, and to be honest with you, Anyone could take that footage and make those kinds of arguments.

I'm gonna use the MMA and MCMAP examples he used in there as well...

I got some MMA "training" at the MT Meet and Greet in 2006. It was done slow and at a pace to see how the techniques were done. If I videotaped that and put a caption to it "THIS IS EFFECTIVE?!?!?" it would look the same as what the guy who created that Video did with slow Buj techniques. By the same token I could grab that footage where the ref kept running in and stopping the fight and add the "This is REAL fighting???" I'm not sure what the guy's point is... since that can be done with anything if you get the right video clips to support your POV.

As far as MCMAP goes... all the idiots who use that in support of their arguments for MMA and against the Buj tend to forget that Jack Hoban was one of the co-creators of the program, so if you are going to claim that MCMAP is "Real" then you must be claiming Buj is real also.

It's all such a joke.

 

[Jisha]

Hello to everyone!

I saw the youtube videos some weeks ago maybe and I must admit I got a mixture of feelings, ranging from wrath to unconfidence. But they lasted for pretty short time. It was obvios that the video poster had no idea of what BDBT means and that he has not seen a real trainig actually taking place.

On the other hand we all have doubts, mostly we we start (as I am stating after 10 years training) concerning our art. I think it's normal and it reflects also a certain lack of self-confidence, not only lack in the art itself.

This lack of self/art-confidence leafds me to a questio another poster asked, a question we might as well pose to ourselves in every aspect of our training: "Is this honest?"

I think lunged punches are honest for waht they are: they represent someone trieing to punch you. In the case of the boxer the movement is done with much less space developed by the arm and usually not stepping forward. It should really make us think.

The idea I've come about with is that in real life situation the punch really has to travel AT LEAST to your own body for it to strike, so there is a time, a glimpse when the arm y more or les strechted and the body is slightly geared towards you, you "just" have to be able to land your (insert waza here) in correct timing and space for it to be useful.

My instructor has to practice what he preaches not only to pay his rents, but also to survive his "day by day". From time to time we experience what shinekn gata would look like, with him; If you train well and develop the art as it is requiered you really won't care how the punches are thrown at you...

Excuse this long first post but the thread includes an aspect of bujinkan that are in "everyone's mouth" nowadays (effectiveness or not) and I'm truly involved in this issue.

PD: also exuse my english, it's not my mother tongue.

 

[mook jong man]

People who put stupid videos up on the internet disparaging other arts need to get a friggin life.

 

[newtothe dark]

People who put stupid videos up on the internet disparaging other arts need to get a friggin life.

Maybe if they trained more and posted less they might be good enough to learn to have a life. Good post Mook

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

Maybe if they trained more and posted less they might be good enough to learn to have a life.

You are definitely on track with your statement. I believe the majority of people that post these videos have very little, if any experience in Budo Taijutsu.

They watch a movie and figure this art is all about how it is portrayed on the big screen. After one or two classes they find themselves resentful, and feel as if they have been cheated out of money because they are'nt hiding under water, or spitting darts out of a blowgun, then quit.

The next step and the most logical in there mind is to point the finger at the art instead of themselves, and label it ineffective. Someone or something always has to be at blame instead of themselves.

Whats bad out of this whole ordeal is that many people view these clips and form an opinion as to the effectiveness of our art based on a two minute clip of a waza that the original poster probably didnt even understand what it was intended for.

 

[nitflegal]

The one thing that I'd like to add is that over the years playing in the Bujinkan I've been taught proper taijutsu for throwing jabs, reverse punches, lunging punches, hook punches and so forth. I've been taught stomp kicks, toe kicks, kicks with the side of the foot, hooking kicks, and kicks with the ball of the foot. The idea that Bujinkan folks only punch by throwing their rear hand forward while maintaining straight alignment from the rear heel to the forward knuckles out of fear that a Tengu will smite them from the clouds is kind of silly. In my probably limited experience there are ways that are taught to build strong foundations and muscle-memory that were primarily training tools or were useful in the real world in a specific sub-set. To think that the punching illustration in Hayes' Ninja volume 4 book is the only way to punch is rather silly.

Put another way, when I started training back in '91 I whined a wee bit about learning that lunge punch as I was slow, it felt hugely telegraphed, and I'd never seen anyone use a similar punch in a real fight. Mahoney-sensei handed me a kicking shield and proceeded to throw about 6-7 completely different types of punches, all of which rocked me back. His comment was that when I got the hang of the baby-level punch he'd teach me the others. . . The flip side is, I used said lunge punch by accident when I was bouncing as my forward foot skidded in a beer puddle and it worked quite well AND all of my repetitions meant that my body fell into a stable position to land the punch instead of depositing me on my butt.

IMHO, anytime someone criticizes an art that many have found valuable (be it Bujinkan, Aikido, karate, Gung fu, etc) without actually studying it for a decent length of time they run the risk of missing the valuable stuff in the art they never had a chance to see. It'd be like watching a filmstrip of a US Marine doing pushups in his first week of boot and deciding that the Marines are terrible fighters; cripes, they don't even use rifles and tanks!

Matt

 

[Hayseed]

I think that alot of us online are quickly and unnecessarily harsh on people who talk down on our art, calling them idiots, losers & so-forth. Let me clarify quickly before I'm lynched. People who make videos, like the one posted, do so because they genuinely believe the Bujinkan to be a scam. They do so for the same reason that any one of us laugh our asses off when the K***g*n, Ashida Kim, or Nintaijutsu folks come around.

That's not to say that those arts are just misunderstood, quite the opposite actually. However, think about how it makes you feel to know that so many people believe that they're receiving traditional or effective techniques when we know the truth about it.

Now imagine that even one of those organisations had the numbers that we have. I know, for myself anyway, that I would almost feel it my duty as a martial artist to make sure that everyone I could come into contact with, knew what I know. Don't you?

Honestly, if youtube was filled with vids of shinken taijutsu, and skilled randori, instead of beginner learning vids, this really wouldn't even be an issue. Sure, there would still be people petty enough to make fun of it, but it would be a hell of alot fewer.

Couple that with how fervently people defend something that really doesn't need defending, at least to those who've chosen to give such a thing a chance, and you've got a recipe for prime trolling.

If you guys honestly want these things to go away, at least from our boards anyway, stop responding to people as soon as it becomes clear that they're not sincerely seeking info. As well as try to have a bit more patience with those, caught up in believing so much hype.

I can't remember what forum I read it on(MT, MAP, E-Budo etc.) But someone posted something I found poignant..."Should we cut down everyone who throws a fake punch at us?"

I like to think of it as a lesson in Fudoshin.

Regards