Martial Arts? It's BS.

[rainesr]

I am surprised at how many people are actually angry about a Penn and Teller "documentary", especially one this old. First Penn and Teller are entertainers, comedians, magicians...not journalists. If they were legitimate news it would be on the news not the Showtime Movie channel, and they would have corespondents on their show not topless women. Penn and Teller's own behavior suggests that they are not taking themselves serious, why would I, especially enough to get angry. Similarly I would/do not get angry if John Stewart, Robin Williams, Peter Griffin (yes this is a cartoon character), or Chris Tucker exaggerates and slams something I do or believe in their performances. Why bother?

I have yet to hear of any "documentary" that Penn and Teller have done rocking the foundations of any community's beliefs, nor do I expect to.

This response is probably more of a culmination of the years I have heard this piece discussed rather than just this post.

~Rob

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Please explain?

From a National Geographic special. GM Dillman explains how to nullify the no touch ko by wiggling your toes and licking your back teeth.

 

[Josh Oakley]

From a National Geographic special. GM Dillman explains how to nullify the no touch ko by wiggling your toes and licking your back teeth.

... Says it all. The thing that has always stood out to me about the believers of no-touch is that no-touch only seems to work if you believe it will. In other words, it's essentially useless. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the practitioners other skills. I have known plenty of otherwise exceptional instructors that believe in no-touch.

 

[Cyriacus]

I am surprised at how many people are actually angry about a Penn and Teller "documentary", especially one this old. First Penn and Teller are entertainers, comedians, magicians...not journalists. If they were legitimate news it would be on the news not the Showtime Movie channel, and they would have corespondents on their show not topless women. Penn and Teller's own behavior suggests that they are not taking themselves serious, why would I, especially enough to get angry. Similarly I would/do not get angry if John Stewart, Robin Williams, Peter Griffin (yes this is a cartoon character), or Chris Tucker exaggerates and slams something I do or believe in their performances. Why bother?

I have yet to hear of any "documentary" that Penn and Teller have done rocking the foundations of any community's beliefs, nor do I expect to.

This response is probably more of a culmination of the years I have heard this piece discussed rather than just this post.

~Rob

Thats just it, but.
​It isnt funny.

 

[Master Dan]

From a National Geographic special. GM Dillman explains how to nullify the no touch ko by wiggling your toes and licking your back teeth.

thank you I am still amazed at how we can view video clips good audio fair video and the 12 additional clip library after viewing the first one you have on your post comes at the end.

I think GM Dillman's explanation at the end was a too simplistic explanation of a complex issue. Even PP and certain grapling will not work many times because they rely on relaxation or an unawareness of what the offensive move will be meaning in nurological terms the very communication or access to the brain you need is blocked by duress and resistance so you go to another point or move commonly refered to target of oportunity for the effect you are looking for.

I have never believed that no touch has anything to do with combat or resistive defense but it can have an effect before applying technique prior to touching and effect balance and enhance effect of energetic moves or cross diuranal applications. To look at something like no touch and conclude that Chi or Ki has no effect on defensive or offensive moves is certainly a position a person has the right to take but take any move application you like and have it applied on you by a 1-5 year practioner and then by a adult who has trained 25 plus years non stop developing thier ki and applications and you can feel the difference and it is not always just becasue they know how and where to apply but the energy they can apply to the technique.

In fact Chi and ki will happen even if a person believes or not over a period of time and impacts what they are doing regardless if they are knowingly trying to apply it but not as significant as when they directly develop and use it. I think its just as funny to say as some of the other Japanese styles have demonstrated the mind block in demonstration on thier students which of course on thier students it works but I would hate to try that with some guy who has a gun or knife ( you cannot shoot or stab me) but still fun to believe some guy lived in a cave and perfected it for 50 years? Yes Virgina there really is a Santa Claus

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thats just it, but.
​It isnt funny.

Humor is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Cyriacus]

Humor is a matter of personal opinion.

Oh, it could be Amusing. Thats personal Opinion.
But Murder can be Funny as well, to the eyes of the Beholder.

Funny, implies that something is more radial.
But for the sake of discussion, I shall concur for now. Theres not much point in debating the intriciacies of the referencial use of the word Funny

 

[Tez3]

I am surprised at how many people are actually angry about a Penn and Teller "documentary", especially one this old. First Penn and Teller are entertainers, comedians, magicians...not journalists. If they were legitimate news it would be on the news not the Showtime Movie channel, and they would have corespondents on their show not topless women. Penn and Teller's own behavior suggests that they are not taking themselves serious, why would I, especially enough to get angry. Similarly I would/do not get angry if John Stewart, Robin Williams, Peter Griffin (yes this is a cartoon character), or Chris Tucker exaggerates and slams something I do or believe in their performances. Why bother?

I have yet to hear of any "documentary" that Penn and Teller have done rocking the foundations of any community's beliefs, nor do I expect to.

This response is probably more of a culmination of the years I have heard this piece discussed rather than just this post.

~Rob

Never heard of Penn and Teller before this thread so didn't know they were supposed to be 'funny' or whatever. I like both my documentaries and comedies to not talk down to me and to be reasonably clever and quite entertaining, these didn't manage to do anything other than be annoying for many reasons. They insult the intelligence of small rodents never mind human adults.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I find them funny. Then again, I also enjoy Benny Hill and have been known to laugh at a Shakespeare comedy, so what's that say about my taste?

Here's my take on it all:
- Some MA are BS.
- Some guys and gals do really wacked things and people buy it.
- You can never go wrong with naked babes.
- Anything with the word "Bull" in the title is 'caca'.

 

[Tez3]

I find them funny. Then again, I also enjoy Benny Hill and have been known to laugh at a Shakespeare comedy, so what's that say about my taste?

Only men find Benny Hill funny! Women just shake their head, it's his very little boy lavatorial sense of humour that appeals to blokes and doesn't appeal to women at all.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

*Looks down*
Well, it appears I'm male so that explains a lot actually.

 

[Tez3]

LOl Benny Hill, appeals to the small boy inside all men!

 

[mxav]

From a National Geographic special. GM Dillman explains how to nullify the no touch ko by wiggling your toes and licking your back teeth.

Really.............................?

 

[pgsmith]

Opinion from left field ...
There are a great many people in the MA business that are selling snake-oil. However, there are a great many people that eagerly buy that snake-oil and believe in it. So what? It doesn't affect my training or what I do in the least, and it's much better for people to get out and train in a B.S. martial arts dojo than to sit on their couch and watch bad TV programming. The truth is that very, very few of all the people who practice martial arts, BS or otherwise, will ever use what they've been taught. Well, unless they are engaged in law enforcement or security, but those folks wouldn't be fooled by a martial arts charlatan.

My point is that if people are willing to shell out money and enjoy what they're doing, it makes no difference if it's real or not. Those of us that want real training, can find it pretty easily. Getting upset because someone else is selling a Ford Focus as a Lamborghini is simple ego, in my opinion.

 

[Tez3]

Opinion from left field ...
There are a great many people in the MA business that are selling snake-oil. However, there are a great many people that eagerly buy that snake-oil and believe in it. So what? It doesn't affect my training or what I do in the least, and it's much better for people to get out and train in a B.S. martial arts dojo than to sit on their couch and watch bad TV programming. The truth is that very, very few of all the people who practice martial arts, BS or otherwise, will ever use what they've been taught. Well, unless they are engaged in law enforcement or security, but those folks wouldn't be fooled by a martial arts charlatan.

My point is that if people are willing to shell out money and enjoy what they're doing, it makes no difference if it's real or not. Those of us that want real training, can find it pretty easily. Getting upset because someone else is selling a Ford Focus as a Lamborghini is simple ego, in my opinion.

Unless you sell Ferraris or Lamborghinis in Japan, then you are going to be really, really, really upset today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...f-supercars-in-Japan-crash-were-speeding.html

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Opinion from left field ...
There are a great many people in the MA business that are selling snake-oil. However, there are a great many people that eagerly buy that snake-oil and believe in it. So what? It doesn't affect my training or what I do in the least, and it's much better for people to get out and train in a B.S. martial arts dojo than to sit on their couch and watch bad TV programming. The truth is that very, very few of all the people who practice martial arts, BS or otherwise, will ever use what they've been taught. Well, unless they are engaged in law enforcement or security, but those folks wouldn't be fooled by a martial arts charlatan.

My point is that if people are willing to shell out money and enjoy what they're doing, it makes no difference if it's real or not. Those of us that want real training, can find it pretty easily. Getting upset because someone else is selling a Ford Focus as a Lamborghini is simple ego, in my opinion.

Good point. I have known people who train at BS mcdojos, and after 5 or so years they have improved flexibility, incresed core strength and cardio fitness, they have learnt some basics regarding distancing and positioning and they've learnt a whole heap of kicks and punches they would never have otherwise known. Are they some kick *** fighting machine? no, of course not, BUT they are significantly better equiped to handle themself if ever confronted with the so called "guy on the street", and its heaps better for them than sitting at home on the couch eating a packet of chips. What they are learning may be 'watered down mcdojo stuff' , but hey, they are still learning something. Good on them.

 

[Hordfest]

After watching those videos and reading through the comments I felt like adding my own take on this whole thing.

First off, I joined a Shuri-ryu karate school with the purpose of self-improvement. I didn't want to take lives, I didn't want to be a bad ***, I just wanted to focus my body, mind, and spirit and get a sense of self-improvement. I was not disappointed. I've only been in the system for a month and I feel more refreshed then ever. I now have a reason to get up and want to work out or train. My diet has improved, my grades have improved, and I have already learned so much, not just about my system, but about life in general. I learned that if you want to master something you need to repeat it and practice it. I am learning the value of discipline, respect to my superiors, as well as slew of other things. For me, this is the true value of my training so far and totally vindicates the $50 I pay per month.

And for me to see these videos is saddening. Penn and Teller may be entertainers, but I have never been a big fan of people who use lies under the guise of illusion for comedy. There are so many intangible benefits to being a part of a true martial arts system and while there are certainly idiots in every field, including martial arts, it is irresponsible for them, and offensive to thousands if not millions of people in America and across the world to give such a one-sided view of martial arts.

That being said, there are also a lot of specific claims he makes that I have issues with.

First off, their analysis of the belt system, to me, was way off. The belt system, to me, is a great idea. It is PROVEN through countless studies that setting goals will help your progression in any aspect of life. Martial arts is no different, and as a lowly white belt, when I think about testing for yellow belt in a few months it makes me excited and encourages me to train harder, perhaps, then I would if I had no measure of my progress. Granted, the belt system creates a certain group of students who have the philosophy, "ooh a black belt is my ultimate goal, give me the exact requirements and I'll try to do exactly the minimum just to say I have the belt," and while it is abused by some instructors, I think that as a measure of progress and a rough indicator of seniority and skill, that the belt system works great.

Secondly, Penn and Teller, as well as a comment by a John, earlier in this thread, about guns is just way off base based on what I know. My biggest qualm with this is that they are spreading knowledge that could be potentially harmful. If you go out and buy a gun, get a concealed carry license, open carry it, or whatever and think that that will protect you absolutely, that is terribly wrong and even potentially dangerous. Imagine if somebody comes up to rob you and you pull a gun on them. If they even have a basic knowledge of gun defense, they will not only be able to stop you from firing it, but because you didn't want to "waste" money and time learning martial arts or any sort of close range self-defense, you will also not have any idea what to do if you are disarmed or in an area where guns aren't permitted. Also, many people are uncomfortable with a gun or live in states or countries where gun control is strict.

Thirdly, I've only been at my dojo for one month and I've already volunteered to help out around the place. Since when did we become a society where volunteering is confused as unpaid slave labor? To me, martial arts schools are like families and in a family, the sons, daughters, and cousins don't demand payment from the patriarch or matriarch for their chores. They do them because they have a sense of responsibility and they understand how each of their individual tasks, no matter how menial, help build the family into a greater thing.

Finally, I just wanted to say that I also realize there are a lot of idiots that Penn and Teller are justified in calling out. But to condemn martial arts as BS as a whole, is just terrible. If there is one thing he said that I liked, it is that martial artists are truly that, "artists." We are a people who can do beautiful and effective things in and out of society with our body and our minds, both with our arts and from the lessons learned from our studies. This is what being a martial artist means to me, and I'm so glad that I made the decision to join the ranks of a proud and historic tradition, despite anything that Penn and Teller tells me, jesting or otherwise.

 

[rainesr]

Never heard of Penn and Teller before this thread so didn't know they were supposed to be 'funny' or whatever. I like both my documentaries and comedies to not talk down to me and to be reasonably clever and quite entertaining, these didn't manage to do anything other than be annoying for many reasons. They insult the intelligence of small rodents never mind human adults.

When this came out some of the guys at my school were outraged, and they were irritated that some of us could care less. I am not defending Penn and Teller, they really aren't my type of humor. I am just surprised that people can get worked up over a couple magicians rounding up a bunch of clowns and making fun of them. I have only seen a couple other episodes but the subject in the title seems to come a distant second to making fun of fruitcakes.

~Rob

 

[Josh Oakley]

After watching those videos and reading through the comments I felt like adding my own take on this whole thing.

First off, I joined a Shuri-ryu karate school with the purpose of self-improvement. I didn't want to take lives, I didn't want to be a bad ***, I just wanted to focus my body, mind, and spirit and get a sense of self-improvement. I was not disappointed. I've only been in the system for a month and I feel more refreshed then ever. I now have a reason to get up and want to work out or train. My diet has improved, my grades have improved, and I have already learned so much, not just about my system, but about life in general. I learned that if you want to master something you need to repeat it and practice it. I am learning the value of discipline, respect to my superiors, as well as slew of other things. For me, this is the true value of my training so far and totally vindicates the $50 I pay per month.

And for me to see these videos is saddening. Penn and Teller may be entertainers, but I have never been a big fan of people who use lies under the guise of illusion for comedy. There are so many intangible benefits to being a part of a true martial arts system and while there are certainly idiots in every field, including martial arts, it is irresponsible for them, and offensive to thousands if not millions of people in America and across the world to give such a one-sided view of martial arts.

That being said, there are also a lot of specific claims he makes that I have issues with.

First off, their analysis of the belt system, to me, was way off. The belt system, to me, is a great idea. It is PROVEN through countless studies that setting goals will help your progression in any aspect of life. Martial arts is no different, and as a lowly white belt, when I think about testing for yellow belt in a few months it makes me excited and encourages me to train harder, perhaps, then I would if I had no measure of my progress. Granted, the belt system creates a certain group of students who have the philosophy, "ooh a black belt is my ultimate goal, give me the exact requirements and I'll try to do exactly the minimum just to say I have the belt," and while it is abused by some instructors, I think that as a measure of progress and a rough indicator of seniority and skill, that the belt system works great.

Secondly, Penn and Teller, as well as a comment by a John, earlier in this thread, about guns is just way off base based on what I know. My biggest qualm with this is that they are spreading knowledge that could be potentially harmful. If you go out and buy a gun, get a concealed carry license, open carry it, or whatever and think that that will protect you absolutely, that is terribly wrong and even potentially dangerous. Imagine if somebody comes up to rob you and you pull a gun on them. If they even have a basic knowledge of gun defense, they will not only be able to stop you from firing it, but because you didn't want to "waste" money and time learning martial arts or any sort of close range self-defense, you will also not have any idea what to do if you are disarmed or in an area where guns aren't permitted. Also, many people are uncomfortable with a gun or live in states or countries where gun control is strict.

Thirdly, I've only been at my dojo for one month and I've already volunteered to help out around the place. Since when did we become a society where volunteering is confused as unpaid slave labor? To me, martial arts schools are like families and in a family, the sons, daughters, and cousins don't demand payment from the patriarch or matriarch for their chores. They do them because they have a sense of responsibility and they understand how each of their individual tasks, no matter how menial, help build the family into a greater thing.

Finally, I just wanted to say that I also realize there are a lot of idiots that Penn and Teller are justified in calling out. But to condemn martial arts as BS as a whole, is just terrible. If there is one thing he said that I liked, it is that martial artists are truly that, "artists." We are a people who can do beautiful and effective things in and out of society with our body and our minds, both with our arts and from the lessons learned from our studies. This is what being a martial artist means to me, and I'm so glad that I made the decision to join the ranks of a proud and historic tradition, despite anything that Penn and Teller tells me, jesting or otherwise.

I couldn't find any lies. I saw facts, and opinions. There were opinions I agree with and disagree with, but nothing that was actually untrue.

 

[Tez3]

When this came out some of the guys at my school were outraged, and they were irritated that some of us could care less. I am not defending Penn and Teller, they really aren't my type of humor. I am just surprised that people can get worked up over a couple magicians rounding up a bunch of clowns and making fun of them. I have only seen a couple other episodes but the subject in the title seems to come a distant second to making fun of fruitcakes.

~Rob

Well they are entitled to be upset if they want just as you are entitled not to be upset. I assume you all knew who Penn and Teller were so could make a jusdgement based on that, I have no idea who they are, still don't and have no wish to find out more. I suppose you have programme listings too that tell you these two are supposed to be funny, hard to tell otherwise.