Martial Arts Extinction

[Instructor]

With so many martial arts out there (thousands?)
has anybody ever heard of a style going extinct?

It seems to me that some
must have fallen by the wayside over the centuries.

I know many still
exist as parts of more modern styles of martial arts. So we will call that
assimilation.

What arts have ceased to exist either via assimilation or
extinction, and why?

 

[Makalakumu]

Lots of styles of Kung Fu have gone extinct. Many of the styles of Kung Fu that were assimilated into Okinawan Karate no longer exist.

 

[Instructor]

Do you think any have vanished in the last 50 years?

 

[Xue Sheng]

There are so many styles and sub styles of Chinese MartialArts it is hard to give a name. There are family styles that go extinct andcurrently there are several styles of Bagua about to go extinct.

the original Shaolin is pretty much gone as is the originalWudang. Also most styles of Taiji are incredibly close to going extinct as amartial art that many who do Taijiquan and more that see it these days don'teven know it is one

 

[Touch Of Death]

With so many martial arts out there (thousands?)
has anybody ever heard of a style going extinct?

It seems to me that some
must have fallen by the wayside over the centuries.

I know many still
exist as parts of more modern styles of martial arts. So we will call that
assimilation.

What arts have ceased to exist either via assimilation or
extinction, and why?

Martial arts are invented for what the concerns of the day dictate; so, if the concerns don't exist anymore, neither should the martial art.
Sean

 

[Instructor]

It's a sobering thought. Do you think that styles that have gone extinct ever get resurrected? If so how?

 

[clfsean]

It's a sobering thought. Do you think that styles that have gone extinct ever get resurrected? If so how?

Can't resurrect the dead. So much of the body mechanics/theories/applications/etc... are lost, that arguably that ok it's back. But it's a Frankenstein of what it was & therefore not the same. It can't be called "X" anymore because it's not "X".

 

[Instructor]

Can you think of an example of where it has been tried (resurrection)? How did it fall short of the mark and conversely did something good come out of it?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Can you think of an example of where it has been tried (resurrection)? How did it fall short of the mark and conversely did something good come out of it?

Bartitsu, perhaps? How it compares to the original? Do not know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu

I believe that there are a number of Okinawan 'family' ryu that no longer exist in their original form; I could be wrong. And some might argue that the original 'te' forms are gone. I'm sure there are many other examples of styles that have gone extinct.

 

[Instructor]

Wow Bartitsu has some neat history. It makes me want to read Sherlock Holmes.

 

[Instructor]

In 1899, Barton-Wright summarized the essential principles of Bartitsu as:

1. To disturb the equilibrium of your assailant.
2. To surprise him before he has time to regain his balance and use his strength.
3. If necessary, to subject the joints of any parts of his body, whether neck, shoulder, elbow, wrist, back, knee, ankle, etc. to strains that they are anatomically and mechanically unable to resist.

Kind of sounds like Hapkido.

 

[Blindside]

Can you think of an example of where it has been tried (resurrection)? How did it fall short of the mark and conversely did something good come out of it?

Most of the current Renaissance Martial Arts or Historical Europran Martial Arts groups are trying to resurrect what was using the books left by the fencing masters as reference. I worked with one guy recently on sword and buckler material based off of the I.33 document and the stuff was really interesting to me though very counter-intuitive to my FMA habits. The material felt solid and the justification for why he did what he did was very sound. His Messer work was so close to what I do in FMA it was scary (hmm similarities between two arts based around mid-length slashing emphasis sword work....), in fact he wound up lifting a drill from me because he thought it did a good job teaching the same skills he was trying to get across. I believe the messer material uses multiple period book sources. He doesn't claim to be a "master" and talks about the frustrations of trying to interpret a 2d drawing from the 13th century as a guide, and then trying to test the various interpretations. He is a better swordsman than many people that I have met that claim living traditions, so I think something "good" has come of it. It may not be exactly what what was, but then I suspect that is true of many of our martial arts with living traditions as well.

 

[clfsean]

Can you think of an example of where it has been tried (resurrection)? How did it fall short of the mark and conversely did something good come out of it?

yeah this Italian longsword group. Scholari something... I went to a class one time. They're trying to put it together from a Renaissance era manual/manuscript or two... and then filling in the gaps with "aikido" and "wushu" and other things. It's on their website & directly alludes to the fact they fill in the gaps where they need too.

 

[Blindside]

Kind of sounds like Hapkido.

Probably because Bartitsu had a large traditional jujutsu component to it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This guy is trying to do too

Chinese Longsword

 

[Blindside]

Regarding extinction, I believe the Japanese documented their extant historical martial arts prior to 1868, and I believe those documents show several extinctions since that time.

 

[oaktree]

With so many martial arts out there (thousands?)
has anybody ever heard of a style going extinct?

Yes alot of Jujutsu styles and Kungfu styles have.

What arts have ceased to exist either via assimilation or
extinction, and why?

Alot of the Ninjutsu schools are extinict, Jujutsu and Kenjutsu styles as well. Alot of Kungfu styles extinct. Alot of the reason is due to no one to successfully carry the lines.
It could be that certain styles were meshed with other styles, or there was no need to keep a particular style around anymore because it was not effective.

 

[Chris Parker]

Right.

Have any martial arts gone extinct? Far more than exist now, to say the least. Some arts only last a single generation, with no-one continuing them for many reasons. Others last longer, but not forever. These include arts from everywhere, such as many forms of Japanese arts, many Chinese systems, and many Western systems (such as traditional wrestling forms, pancration, and many more), as well as all Korean systems (albeit with some controversy... but nothing that currently exists as a Korean system is what was around way back when).

How about in the last 50 years? Sure, of course there have been. I train with a gentleman who learnt a particular form of Chinese martial arts which ceased to exist when his teacher stopped teaching about 10 years ago. If no-one is in a position to continue a system, it dies.

Can you resurrect them? Well, that's the question... I would say yes, provided there are certain criteria met. First, there needs to be a closely related system still extant to be used as a reference point. Next, the person reconstructing the system (that's the common term, by the way) needs to have experience in similar or related systems. And thirdly, there needs to be enough information left to base the reconstruction off. Reconstructing arts happens a bit in Japanese traditions, primarily due to the large amount of documentation that remains of old systems. In recent times, arts such as Katayama Hoki Ryu Jujutsu have been reconstructed (70 years after it went "extinct"), and sections of other systems such as the newly created Betsuden Mokuroku of Toda-ha Buko Ryu (containing it's methods for Kusarigama and Nagamaki, reconstructed from old documents the Ryu maintained).

 

[mukashimantis]

I know from reading about them, that some Indian martial arts are lost. I am sure that goese for other countries as well. I would think that alot of knowledge about vital points is lost and systems with weapons that are no longer used are probably forgotten.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I don't think that any Martial Arts have gone extinct, since so much information is coming out, many Martial Art pioneers are doing field research and whatnot bringing back ancient fighting systems and modernizing the concepts, reshaping and reforming these old arts.