Martial Arts Contracts

[bowser666]

Commercialism has contributed to the downfall or atleast mediocrity of martial arts. Contracts are just a part of the commercialism.

Then again, if it weren't for commercialism, how many of us would even be doing ma?

It is a good question. I just think contracts make a MA school no different from a Bally's or a Golds gym. Places that they talk you into signing a contract , then you never hear from them again, even if you move 50 miles away and cant go there anymore. They just give a crap about your $$$ , a truly concerned gym would call and ask " We haven't seen you in 3 weeks, did you get injured, come in and let's talk about is holding you back in your training etc. " You will never hear that from a place that pushes contracts.

 

[elder999]

It is a good question. I just think contracts make a MA school no different from a Bally's or a Golds gym. Places that they talk you into signing a contract , then you never hear from them again, even if you move 50 miles away and cant go there anymore. They just give a crap about your $$$ , a truly concerned gym would call and ask " We haven't seen you in 3 weeks, did you get injured, come in and let's talk about is holding you back in your training etc. " You will never hear that from a place that pushes contracts.

I know there are places that use contracts that way, but it's not always what it's about-there are a variety of legal protection reasons for using them that have nothing whatsoever to do with "maximizing revenue streams," especially for schools that are businesses-mine is not exactly a business, but I still use contracts for the reasons posted-I'd never hold someone to a contract who wasn't interested in training, and there are provisions for suspending it for people who, inevitably, for one reason or another can't come to train anymore-temporarily or permanently. I can see how a business with higher overhead costs than mine might, though-that's a business decision-and yes, the product of being "strictly commercial" which carries its own burdens, obligations and compromises-things I'm glad I don't have to engage in. I'm not saying that a dojo can't be run as a business without them, but they do make things clear as a minimum, and "guarantee revenue streams" for those whom that's important for.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It is a good question. I just think contracts make a MA school no different from a Bally's or a Golds gym. Places that they talk you into signing a contract , then you never hear from them again, even if you move 50 miles away and cant go there anymore. They just give a crap about your $$$ , a truly concerned gym would call and ask " We haven't seen you in 3 weeks, did you get injured, come in and let's talk about is holding you back in your training etc. " You will never hear that from a place that pushes contracts.

We use contracts and many times, I have personally seen Master Kim call students who haven't shown in more than a month to see what was going on with them. A good school will be a good school, with or without contracts.

I see contracts from a different direction. Most martial arts masters are not the most effective bill collectors, and they know it; their time is spent doing what they do best and love, which is teaching martial arts. Having the contract and billing company takes the hassle away from them without them having to actually hire personel to do the job.

A good school and a bad school have the same identical tools at their disposall. A bad school that is just in it for the money will abuse those tools to that end. A good school will use those tools to run the school more effectively and provide better service to its students. The tools are just tools, and use of them does not make a school good or bad.

Daniel

 

[harlan]

I think contracts are fine. It's the type of contract that matters.

Personally, a 'business' contract puts two people into a certain relationship. Most people, I think, are used to this and think it is okay/normal. I do not. Coming from a family of musical types, and 'old European school' types, I'm used to learning an art in a mentoring fashion. My voice lessons were for money...but when you didn't have it...you sorted teachers music, ran errands, cleaned her house, listened to her stories of the Old Country. At one point, I lived in her house and she basically took care of me until I could take care of myself. It was a different kind of contract, and deeply rewarding.

I read something in this month's 'Classical Fighting Arts' magazine. In an interview with Pat Nakata, he mentions that Chosin Chibana used to say 'Deshi wa itsumo kawaii.'...'your students are always dear to you.'

Anyone that wants to limit their training to a 'business contract'...gets what they pay for.

 

[pete]

why shouldn't a student who (a) may not like the art, (b) may not like the instructor, (c) may no longer have the time, (d) may no longer have the money, (e) may simply decide to spend their time, money, and effort elsewhere, be free to do so without contractual obligations?

here are my previous posts on this matter, regarding what i do with my school...
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1015912&postcount=36

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1016266&postcount=43

pete.

 

[GuroJason]

When the families come in and say they are going out of town for a month and do not want to pay, he just merely asks them to show him the letter that the mortgage co., gym , and car payment letter says that they did not have to pay them either since they were not going to be driving or be home.

It's my opinion that this would be a pretty rude thing to say to a student or his/her parents, and that that attitude might drive people away. But, I admit that I am biased against contracts because of past experiences with a school where I used to train. I may be naive, as running a school is very new to me, but I feel like the best way is a month to month basis for tuition, and that flexibility will have people coming back in the future if not during the Summer because of other commitments with sports or whatever else. We have a different class schedule for Summer, to accommodate those students that would like to do both, FMA and the Summer sports. Guro Brock (he runs the school, I only help) and I try to focus more on the students' needs so as not to drive them away by demanding that they pay when they're not going to be around. We don't want to give people any reason at all not to come back.

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

On the business end I wouldn't mind using a contract because it insures the school has income and keeps it open, but on the other (as Guro Jason has said) my competition has given contracts such a bad reputation that I'm going to say that the very first question I get asked is "Do you have a contract?" When I say no the answer is always something like "Oh, good!" I'm not totally against them as long as they're not used as a crutch to give the instructor an excuse to provide less than stellar instruction.

 

[DojangMom]

It's my opinion that this would be a pretty rude thing to say to a student or his/her parents, and that that attitude might drive people away.

I agree. That is pretty rude and does not foster a healthy relationship with your students/clients. I don't think I'd be able to trust that person to be a good role model for my child. Then again, as a consumer, I know that the world doesn't stop turning because I'm going away for a week or two. The bills continue to roll in, whether or not I'm there to receive them. In extreme circumstances, my mortgage company will agree to suspend payments for a month or two (like they did when my husband was diagnosed with cancer and we had a hairy couple of months with surgery and whatnot). In those situations, a "good" Master will agree to do the same.

 

[Grenadier]

then you never hear from them again, even if you move 50 miles away and cant go there anymore.

In almost every valid contract, there's a clause that states, that if you move a certain distance away from any of their dojo locations, that you can get out of the contract, no strings attached.

 

[bowser666]

In almost every valid contract, there's a clause that states, that if you move a certain distance away from any of their dojo locations, that you can get out of the contract, no strings attached.

True but if you don't use contracts you don't have to worry about reading all the fine print and clauses. It is a school membership fee, not a mortgage or car loan application LOL.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Personally, my preference would be for a discounted rate if you sign the contract, but not making it manditory. Most contracts do have descending rates for lengthier commitments, so why not start with no contract and then work from there? Our school does offer a short try out arangement, but doesn't quite go that far.

Also, I think that contracts are appropriate for some and not for others. For instance, if you're a lifer and you know it, signing a one year contract at a school that you like is something you'd likely not bat an eyelash at. This assumes that you've checked out the school and sat in on enough classes to get a feel for it.

On the other hand, lengthy contracts for children are foolish. Also foolish for people who can't consistently keep time commitments, and most who can't know that they have a problem in this area. A good friend has a contract at a Kung Fu school that he loves. He renewed last December and hasn't shown up once this year. He has a crazy work schedule and hasn't worked near the school in over three years (his school is near his old job). He has no complaints about his contract and receives regular calls from his grandmaster and other instructors. But he doesn't have the time to show up and refuses to quit. He's been offered an out but feels that it is dishonorable to do so, even though his grandmaster understands his circumstances and would let him out of it if he asked. He should not have signed up.

A lot comes down to the integrity of the school and the nature of the individual consumer.

Daniel

 

[JadeDragon3]

At my first kung fu school we had no contracts at all. You paid at the beggining of the month on the 1st. You had two classes to pay it. If by the 2nd class of the month you didn't have it then you couldn't come back untill it was paid. Unless you made special arrangements with the owner of the school. This was back in 1988. Classes were $35 a month. If you came in and joined in the middle of the month he would only charge a portion of the $35 dollars. Times have changed since then. That was cheap looking back on it. The only thing you had to sign was a liability waiver.