Martial Artists and Spanking

[Makalakumu]

If you practice a martial art where you train to use force only as a last resort, would this apply to using force to discipline your own children? As a martial artist and a parent, how do you rationalize the use of force with spanking? As a martial artist, how do you view spanking in general?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't do spanking

 

[Tames D]

My boys are 6 and 7 years of age. I've never spanked them or even threated to. I always find another way to calm the chaos.

 

[Makalakumu]

Do you feel that your martial arts training influenced your decision or do you decide not to spank for different reasons?

 

[JBrainard]

I don't think it matters if you're a martial artist or not.
I think spanking is acceptable only when the child is very young, as in: you can't communicate with them. A toddler who only talkes baby talk isn't going to understand you when you say "No, it's not ok to smash your fists into the sterio." They do understand, however, that a spanking doesn't feel good.
That being said, once the child is old enough that you can rationalize with them on some level, then spanking is unnecessary.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Do you feel that your martial arts training influenced your decision or do you decide not to spank for different reasons?

It is not how my parents discipline me and it is not how I discipline my children

 

[Tames D]

Do you feel that your martial arts training influenced your decision or do you decide not to spank for different reasons?

In junior high school the teachers and coaches gave 'swats' to the male students, using custom made boards with small holes drilled through them (for additional speed). I decided that when I became a parent I would never subject my kids to that kind of disipline. I don't think it's neccesary.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I have had to spank each of my children only once or twice apiece. Typically at the disobedient toddler age. They were all a simple yet firm swat to the seat of the pants. When done properly, and in the right circumstances it lets them know that disobedience will have consequences. Before a certain age, children dont understand reason. Used as a tool of discipline it works. As a vent for your frustration? Never.

 

[Sukerkin]

Sadly, altho' it may be at odds with my points of view on 'adult' discipline, I cannot say that I agree with the basic tenet that physical punishment is less than optimal for the training of children.

One of the chief underlying causes for the observed rise of disruptive and criminal behaviour in general society is a lack of proper discipline. The key is in the word really. 'Discipline' is not 'abuse'.

Speaking from my own experience (and there is little else we can all really 'quote' authoratively), not many days went by in my early years when I didn't get a spanking for something. Did this mean I was abused? Not to my mind. I was willful, disobedient and aggressive - I got a good hiding because I would not do what I was told and would not be amenable to reason.

As I was the firstborn and the only boy as well, my father feels he was too hard on me because he was learning how to be a parent. I have to confess that it tears me up that he feels guilty for making me a useful member of society rather than a 'self serving thug'.

I was never under any illusions as to why I was being punished and from what I can recall I deserved pretty much all instances (other than those cases when my sisters dropped me in it for something they did .

Physical punishment is a necessary evil for certain personality types, as my upbringing proved, as children are not 'little adults' and nor are they 'innocents'.

They have all the negative and violent instincts of their developing brains and emotions to draw on but none of the trained restraints and cut-outs that you need to function as a societal being. If these impulses are not chanelled and directed then what you get is what you see on the news these days.

For some children, physical punishment is not required it is true. To apply it then would be 'abuse' as they do not need it to adjust their behaviour. For some, whose aggressive nature is like mine was, it is necessary.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have had to spank each of my children only once or twice apiece. Typically at the disobedient toddler age. They were all a simple yet firm swat to the seat of the pants. When done properly, and in the right circumstances it lets them know that disobedience will have consequences. Before a certain age, children dont understand reason. Used as a tool of discipline it works. As a vent for your frustration? Never.

I have not had to spank either of my children yet, other methods of discipline have proven effective, but I do not rule it out. I remember one time when I was kid, I put my brother in the radio flyer and deliberately pushed him down the driveway into the busy street. My dad flew out of the door and snatched the wagon right before it was crushed by a truck.

And then he came up and paddled my butt. That, coupled with the fear of what I had almost done, taught me a lasting lesson. That is pretty much the guideline that I would use.

Anyway, I feel pretty comfortable with my stance on this. I feel that it is fairly consistent with the ethos we learn in TSD, which is to always seek alternative methods to deal with issues before resorting to force.

But that's just me and I'm wondering what others think. Thanks for the replies so far..

:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

My children where spanked when they needed it . They grew up with respect to others and understanding that what they did would have consequences. They did not grow up as brats.

Now as to spankings in general I can think of a couple people I would enjoy spanking

 

[jks9199]

My children where spanked when they needed it . They grew up with respect to others and understanding that what they did would have consequences. They did not grow up as brats.

Now as to spankings in general I can think of a couple people I would enjoy spanking

My opinion (based solely on observation; no youngsters of my own yet, and I generally avoid how to raise kids type stuff until the kids become my business...) is similar. I won't rule out spanking or paddling when I have kids -- but I believe it's more the shock and immediate correction tied to it than any actual injury. And spanking/paddling/discipline should NEVER actually injure a kid! Below a certain point in their development, a kid needs to be treated kind of like a dog, I think. The discipline needs to be immediate, and memorable; they won't remember what they did wrong if it's 20 or 30 minutes ago and won't know why their being punished. Logic don't work on an infant -- or some 3 year olds. (Or quite a few 16 year olds... but that's a different question!) When you can move from immediate, probably physical, punishment to more reasoning-type approaches will depend on the kid... I've known some that by 2 years old would be depressed for a week if you frowned at them...and others that at 6 or 7 didn't understand that there are rules -- and the rules applied to them!

 

[RED]

Touchy subject. I believe in discipline, which includes the occational spanking. the discipline needs to match the crime. I think Martial Arts help one to control their anger which is of the most important thing in spanking. If you are spanking in anger then the child becomes embittered. I take the child to the "mens room" (a designated place ie bathroom , bedroom somewhere private not public.) then I have a specific paddle that is only used for spanking. I first talk to the child so we both know the reason for the punishment. Then I have a set number of swats (3) they recieve. After the act is complete. I talk to the child again to let them know they are forgiven for the infringment. The time is always ended with a hug and "you are forgiven". we don't leave the room angry at all. If I can't get a grip on my anger then my wife interceeds and dose the deed and vice versa. The thing about spanking that is so important is the need for love to be in the action, not anger. My children are older now and I've only had to spank them a couple times in the past year. Reandomly smacking your kids is degrading and humiliating. I'm sure we have all seen the parent grab their kid at the store an hit them. This dose nothing for either the parent or the kid, as well as the smack across the face. This is extremely humilating to the child. I got my but spanked often as a child, but it was always done with love. It made me a better person today. It builds integrity.

Just my 2¥

 

[sholo86]

I have two boys (6 and 8 yrs old) and they usually listen when I use the "voice of god" , but during those times that even with the sterniest god-like voice don't seem to work, I give them a good swat on their behind just to bring them back to reality and unclog both of thems ears.

 

[stickarts]

Using a chart to monitor our daughters good bevavior and bad behavior and having her earn special treats such as going to movies has worked the best for our daughter.
she earns a sticker everytime she does something extra good and loses stickers if she misbehaves. she is allowed some room for error since she is only 6 and not expected t be perfect anymore than we are.

This has worked the best for us. Our daughter does not respond to negative reenforcement well. It just makes her worse.
i think she does try to control her emotions but she just isn't always there yet in her development and it takes time and patience.

I do think as a parent we need to teach our children boundries of right and wrong but you have to find the best way for your child.

Spanking isn't the right approach for us.

 

[Makalakumu]

Touchy subject. I believe in discipline, which includes the occational spanking. the discipline needs to match the crime. I think Martial Arts help one to control their anger which is of the most important thing in spanking. If you are spanking in anger then the child becomes embittered. I take the child to the "mens room" (a designated place ie bathroom , bedroom somewhere private not public.) then I have a specific paddle that is only used for spanking. I first talk to the child so we both know the reason for the punishment. Then I have a set number of swats (3) they recieve. After the act is complete. I talk to the child again to let them know they are forgiven for the infringment. The time is always ended with a hug and "you are forgiven". we don't leave the room angry at all. If I can't get a grip on my anger then my wife interceeds and dose the deed and vice versa. The thing about spanking that is so important is the need for love to be in the action, not anger. My children are older now and I've only had to spank them a couple times in the past year. Reandomly smacking your kids is degrading and humiliating. I'm sure we have all seen the parent grab their kid at the store an hit them. This dose nothing for either the parent or the kid, as well as the smack across the face. This is extremely humilating to the child. I got my but spanked often as a child, but it was always done with love. It made me a better person today. It builds integrity.

Just my 2¥

This is exactly what my parents did and I think that if you are going to spank, this is probably a good guideline.

One of the issues that is addressed above and I think is really important is the anger issue. When your kids do something and you immediately smack them because you are angry or if you spank when you are still angry, then I think the message you are sending is powerfully negative. I think you are teaching them that hitting someone when you are angry is okay and that power can be used when you are bigger and stronger.

As a martial artists, both of those things run counter to the ethos of my training.

 

[Sukerkin]

Red's post is an excellent one and the central point is message that needs to be gotten across to the 'bleeding hearts and artists' that have removed the necessary 'tools' of discipline from parents hands.

As I said in my original post, discipline is not abuse and I truly cannot recall a smack that I got from my father that was fueled by anger. Most were heavily tinged with regret as far as I remember and, most importantly, I was never at a loss as to what I was being punished for.

As an aside, is it common for parents to slap their children across the face!? That only happened to me once when I was being 'brave' and belligerently back-talking my mother whilst simultaneously disdaining the "wait until your father gets home" warning :blush:. Essentially she was letting me know that, if I pushed enough, then she wouldn't need to wait for 'administrative punishment' to be administered. She never needed to do that again, so I reckon that counts as "lesson learned" .

 

[terryl965]

I really enjoyedREDS post it that about sums it up for me

 

[Ray]

My children are grown now. They were spanked but not often. Spanking wasn't the disciplinary action, it was sometimes used to get their attention.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I plan to follow the model my parents (neither of whom were martial artists at the time) used with me and my brothers.

When we were toddlers (not yet able to reason effectively) they'd swat us on the rump if we were doing something dangerous for a second or third time. This was always after at least one verbal warning.

After that, they never laid a hand on us until we became aggressive and defiant teens. During my teenage years, I got hit once each by my dad and my mom. I deserved both and both changed my behavior and attitude.