Macho vs. Century

[drop bear]

Check your history, you're off by a bit. 1974 the PKA was formed, kickboxing was already in play by then.



Can I? I've trained and corned amateur and pro fighters.

Neither are really more brutal, just different. Kyokushin is rough, the goal is to knock your opponent down and in a fairly short time period. It's fast and furious, you can't clinch or takedown if you get in trouble. The feeling out period isn't there. Not to mention the truly crazy crap like the 100 man kumite.

MMA has the most inclusive ruleset perhaps, but that doesn't mean other arts aren't as brutal.

The other issue with kyokkushin is it is a rulset that leans towards throwing big kicks. These equally expose you to risk and deal high damage. So it is a high risk high reward style fight.

 

[Andrew Green]

In mma they have gear. Punches to the face are allowed here with gear on. There are different types of karate tournaments. Two most common are no gear and no punches to the face, you can still kicks though to the face.

Gloves and wraps are to protect the fighters hands more then anything, and to keep it looking more civilized from less cuts.

Back when gloves weren't used fighters often came out with broken hands, so a lot started wearing them before they where required so that they could hit harder without wrecking their hand on someones skull.

Kinda the same reason pre-Marquis of Queensbury rules boxing looked a bit different, modern fighters train with gloves as hand protection so they can hit harder without breaking their hands. That and your face would look pretty rough and get you some interesting looks at work the next day without them in sparring

 

[Andrew Green]

The other issue with kyokkushin is it is a rulset that leans towards throwing big kicks. These equally expose you to risk and deal high damage. So it is a high risk high reward style fight.

It's a painful ruleset

 

[Drose427]

The other issue with kyokkushin is it is a rulset that leans towards throwing big kicks. These equally expose you to risk and deal high damage. So it is a high risk high reward style fight.

This is true but it also forces you to learn proper set up and angles,

which is something even high level MMA fighters miss out on.

Just about every UFC has a handful of non-MT kicks that are thrown just all around poorly with zero set up, and in just about every UFC someone pays for it

Rule sets like kyokushin force you to learn those things, so when you step into other formats its already ingrained

 

[Danny T]

This is true but it also forces you to learn proper set up and angles,

which is something even high level MMA fighters miss out on.

Just about every UFC has a handful of non-MT kicks that are thrown just all around poorly with zero set up, and in just about every UFC someone pays for it

Rule sets like kyokushin force you to learn those things, so when you step into other formats its already ingrained

Agreed.
I know of several pro mma fighters who also compete in kyokushin tournaments because it makes their full contact skills better. I have a Dutch style Muay Thai pro who comes in to train with us a couple times a month and to do some sparring who claims it takes him longer to recover from a kyokushin tournament than any Glory tournament he has every participated in. Know some who only fought once or twice and quit because they found it tougher on their bodies than mma.
For one they have to engage. They can not run as a part of their defense and can not just cover up as a defense, they have to engage. And because there is no punching to the head the body takes a lot more hits so there is a great accumulation of damage on the body. MMA is a tough sport but don't discount Kyokushin.

 

[drop bear]

This is true but it also forces you to learn proper set up and angles,

which is something even high level MMA fighters miss out on.

Just about every UFC has a handful of non-MT kicks that are thrown just all around poorly with zero set up, and in just about every UFC someone pays for it

Rule sets like kyokushin force you to learn those things, so when you step into other formats its already ingrained

Yeah. I have sparred kk. I like pitting myself against different styles just to play with their mechanics. I find it help to understand mine.

It is like looking at different patterns.

 

[Ironbear24]

Yeah. I have sparred kk. I like pitting myself against different styles just to play with their mechanics. I find it help to understand mine.

It is like looking at different patterns.

That is a sign of a good mma fighter. Someone who understands what the term mixed martial arts means. To train in a different variations of martial arts and respect them for their strengths rather than look down on them and consider them all inferior.

 

[elder999]

What's the big deal? No punches to the face. MMA is everything here, plus full elbows and knees to the face. In the full mount, raining full elbows down at an angle is way, way worse.

There is just no reasoning with some people at all......

 

[Ironbear24]

Again, have you seen an MMA fight before? What gear are you talking about that are on the elbows, knees, and feet when they throw full elbows, knees and kicks to the body, head and right in the face? Then you get to clinch and throw a 100 knees to someone's face if you wanted. Gets even worse when you full mount someone on the ground and start raining elbows to the face.

How is your Kyokushin video, where not even head punches are allowed, come even close to the brutality of average MMA?



Then why won't they put on gloves so they can punch to the face? This was why Karatekas started Kickboxing in like the 1980's....because Kyokushin was too soft for them.



Yea and can you knee and elbow to the face like in MMA?



MMA is way more brutal. If you wanted to get overly excited over a Kyukoshin video, then go ahead, just don't try to talk about MMA when you don't have a full understanding of it.

Yes you can elbow and throw knees and do you have any source in your claim that karatekas did kick boxing because kyokyushin was too soft? Or is that just more ********? I understand mma very well and have beaten people in sparring mathces who think they are all bad because they took 2 months of lessons from a random mma class.

There is nothing that is exclusive to mma that you won't find in literally any other martial art, karate tournaments allow all strikes aside from neck strikes. Mma does the same thing. The only real difference is the lack of head gear in mma and even then gloves are worn anyway and. As I said before gloves on = hits to the head ok, gloves off = Punch to the head not ok. Mma is the same thing, gloves are worn and they are mandatory.

It is very clear you have a bias for mma because you have a big boner for it. In your eyes mma has zero flaws and is invincible compared to everything else even though you obviously know little to nothing about what's beyond your octagonal box.

Oh and when anyone disagrees with you, then they are simply just a noob and never been in a fight before. Pretty much this is your train of thought. How old are you? My guess is 16. Must be awesome to know everything in your short time on this planet.

 

[Tez3]

What many people forget is that MMA is TMA, there's nothing new in MMA. The 'newness' is arguably that it's all the martial arts being done in the same fight. I say arguably because many will say that it's been done before.
I love MMA as much as I love TMA because when you come down to it it's part and parcel of the same thing ...martial arts. The majority of real MMA people as with TMA people are respectful and humble, always willing to learn more, to expand their knowledge, it's such a shame that the fanboys spoil it and cause divisions where there needs be none.
I hope the OP isn't going to be put off after spending a few days here and a less than pleasant reception, this isn't how the majority of people here are.

 

[Azulx]

I hope the OP isn't going to be put off after spending a few days here and a less than pleasant reception, this isn't how the majority of people here are.

I do not judge an entire group of people by the actions of one buffoon. For every example of immaturity and buffoonery Fried Rice exhibited, there were 10 times more responses with actual useful information. Anyone who calls people noobs, and says they "wreck" people, has to be around the age of 15, or his MA experience came from the UFC video game. He also stated that his "friend" smashed his head into a concrete wall, that could explain things as well.

 

[Tez3]

I do not judge an entire group of people by the actions of one buffoon. For every example of immaturity and buffoonery Fried Rice exhibited, there were 10 times more responses with actual useful information. Anyone who calls people noobs, and says they "wreck" people, has to be around the age of 15, or his MA experience came from the UFC video game. He also stated that his "friend" smashed his head into a concrete wall, that could explain things as well.

I'm so pleased you see it like that, this is a good place with some very knowledgeable people who are also pretty cool, we have a laugh here too, some silly fun posts as well as the serious stuff, please stick around, you will add to this place for sure.

 

[FriedRice]

Yes you can elbow and throw knees

You are ignorant of Kyokushin rules. There's no elbow nor knees to the head. Or did you want to show me where they allow this. Here are 2 organizations banning such techniques.

kyokushin kumite rules
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama - Kyokushin Karate Tournament Rules

and do you have any source in your claim that karatekas did kick boxing because kyokyushin was too soft?

Karatekas told me. They didn't have the internet back then to talk about it. But obviously, Kickboxers punched to the face and that's what the Karatekas wanted.

Or is that just more ********? I understand mma very well

I don't think you do since you think that Kyokushin is anywhere close to the brutality of MMA.

[/QUOTE] and have beaten people in sparring mathces who think they are all bad because they took 2 months of lessons from a random mma class. [/QUOTE]

You just admit beating some guy with only 2 months of MMA training. What's so great about this?

There is nothing that is exclusive to mma that you won't find in literally any other martial art, karate tournaments allow all strikes aside from neck strikes. Mma does the same thing.

Show me 5 videos of any other Martial Art tournament where they allow someone to get repeated elbows to the face while they're downed to the ground.

The only real difference is the lack of head gear in mma and even then gloves are worn anyway and.

Are there gloves on elbows and knees when they are landing repeatedly into a guy's head? MMA only wear thin gloves, a cup and mouthguard compared to most other MA tournament that wears a ton of safety gear, resembling a full dogbite suit and motorcycle helmet.

As I said before gloves on = hits to the head ok, gloves off = Punch to the head not ok. Mma is the same thing, gloves are worn and they are mandatory.

Then show me some videos of Kyokushin fights where punches to the head with gloves are allowed and where ELBOWS & KNEES to the head are allowed.

It is very clear you have a bias for mma because you have a big boner for it. In your eyes mma has zero flaws and is invincible compared to everything else even though you obviously know little to nothing about what's beyond your octagonal box.

You just made this up. I only argue that MMA is way more realistic and way more brutal than all TMA tournaments.

Oh and when anyone disagrees with you, then they are simply just a noob and never been in a fight before. Pretty much this is your train of thought. How old are you? My guess is 16. Must be awesome to know everything in your short time on this planet.

Incorrect. It's when they disagree and make strange statements like you did, such as saying that prizefighters such as Mayweather and Pacquaio were holding back their full power because it was only a tournament.....for $180,000,000 and $120,000,000 split + worldwide fame and glory... And I wish I was 16. Being young is way better than being old, decaying and closer to death.

 

[FriedRice]

There is just no reasoning with some people at all......

I feel the same way

 

[FriedRice]

I do not judge an entire group of people by the actions of one buffoon. For every example of immaturity and buffoonery Fried Rice exhibited, there were 10 times more responses with actual useful information. Anyone who calls people noobs, and says they "wreck" people, has to be around the age of 15, or his MA experience came from the UFC video game. He also stated that his "friend" smashed his head into a concrete wall, that could explain things as well.

What a big list of complaints

 

[Ironbear24]

You are ignorant of Kyokushin rules. There's no elbow nor knees to the head. Or did you want to show me where they allow this. Here are 2 organizations banning such techniques.

kyokushin kumite rules
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama - Kyokushin Karate Tournament Rules



Karatekas told me. They didn't have the internet back then to talk about it. But obviously, Kickboxers punched to the face and that's what the Karatekas wanted.



I don't think you do since you think that Kyokushin is anywhere close to the brutality of MMA.

and have beaten people in sparring mathces who think they are all bad because they took 2 months of lessons from a random mma class. [/QUOTE]

You just admit beating some guy with only 2 months of MMA training. What's so great about this?



Show me 5 videos of any other Martial Art tournament where they allow someone to get repeated elbows to the face while they're downed to the ground.



Are there gloves on elbows and knees when they are landing repeatedly into a guy's head? MMA only wear thin gloves, a cup and mouthguard compared to most other MA tournament that wears a ton of safety gear, resembling a full dogbite suit and motorcycle helmet.



Then show me some videos of Kyokushin fights where punches to the head with gloves are allowed and where ELBOWS & KNEES to the head are allowed.



You just made this up. I only argue that MMA is way more realistic and way more brutal than all TMA tournaments.



Incorrect. It's when they disagree and make strange statements like you did, such as saying that prizefighters such as Mayweather and Pacquaio were holding back their full power because it was only a tournament.....for $180,000,000 and $120,000,000 split + worldwide fame and glory... And I wish I was 16. Being young is way better than being old, decaying and closer to death.[/QUOTE]

Ok so people you know have done it. Well the the thing is your word holds no value to me so that claim holds no water.

Sounds to me like you never heard of Muay Thai. Which is believe it or not a traditional martial art and has existed long before UFC. They use elbows and knees very often.

 

[Ironbear24]

You just admit beating some guy with only 2 months of MMA training. What's so great about this?

I'm not saying it to brag about it. I'm saying it because I am making a point. The point is you sound exactly word for word like these people who think mma is the best **** ever and everything else just sucks when compared to it.

They go around acting like they are the best and have the biggest chip on their shoulders while at the same time being disrespectful to every more traditional martial artist out there.

You are giving mma which is a great sport a bad name by promoting this type of behavior.

 

[Tez3]

What a big list of complaints

Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.

 

[Andrew Green]

I'm not saying it to brag about it. I'm saying it because I am making a point. The point is you sound exactly word for word like these people who think mma is the best **** ever and everything else just sucks when compared to it.

To be fair, that comes from all sides, not just MMA fans. MMA Fans are perhaps the worst though, actual practitioners are a little more in line with the loud mouths in other styles

 

[Ironbear24]

To be fair, that comes from all sides, not just MMA fans. MMA Fans are perhaps the worst though, actual practitioners are a little more in line with the loud mouths in other styles

I never see anyone going around proclaiming x style is the best and you are a moron for doing anything different. I only see this from UFC fanboys.