"MA-related things you just don't understand and would like to admit it to someone" thread!

[Gerry Seymour]

Most (if not all) moves can be applied in multiple ways. Although at some point the student should be picking up on those ways themselves, rather than being explicitly told.



Needing a cane does not necessarily mean you can't use it as a weapon. Needing a cane covers a lot of territory.

Carrying your escrima sticks might be a bit of an attention grabber. Carrying a cane, not so much. And you can carry a cane in places that will not allow other weapons (i.e. on a plane).

There have certainly been times when I needed a cane to be able to stay on my feet for extended times (craft shows, etc.) or to keep my gait from making my knees worse. But my physical strength was still good enough to let me use the cane as a weapon.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Does it make sense to freeze your body and only move your arm (like traffic cop directs traffic)?

In the following clip, when he moves, all his body parts starts to move at the same time. When he stops, all his body parts stop at the same time. You don't see any "freeze the body and only move the arm". Should this be the basic requirement for all MA systems?

 

[Buka]

Cause it ain't simple, you should see how much a real Qinna guy trains and what he trains

I'm talking about the George Dillman's of the Martial world.

 

[Flying Crane]

There have certainly been times when I needed a cane to be able to stay on my feet for extended times (craft shows, etc.) or to keep my gait from making my knees worse. But my physical strength was still good enough to let me use the cane as a weapon.

Sure, but look at my post #37. I think he is pointing out the separation from reality that we sometimes see with this stuff. Not to deny that a person who needs a cane to walk could make use of one in self-defense. But in that case, I think jumping spin kicks and low sweeps are unlikely techniques for such a fellow.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I remember watching a guy do a cane kata. The fellow walked onto the floor acting as if he needs the cane to ambulate. Then he did this kata with all kinds of jumping spin kicks and low sweeps.

That was a head-scratcher, for sure.

I saw a jump back, low cane block,. high cane strike, jumping side kick to the head...left me thinking.

 

[Flying Crane]

Does it make sense to freeze your body and only move your arm (like traffic cop directs traffic)?

In the following clip, when he moves, all his body parts starts to move at the same time. When he stops, all his body parts stop at the same time. You don't see any "freeze the body and only move the arm". Should this be the basic requirement for all MA systems?

It depends on how the body is moving, to make that uniform movement effective. Also, that clip says baji, but it looks like xing-I to me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Most (if not all) moves can be applied in multiple ways. Although at some point the student should be picking up on those ways themselves, rather than being explicitly told..

Don't mean to go all Bruce Lee on you here, but the goal should be simply to simplify. Yes you need options, but if one of those options is a spinning back flibberty jibber over head, with a twist to a side kick headstand to a full nelson surplex..... no one is ever going to remember that under pressure

Needing a cane does not necessarily mean you can't use it as a weapon. Needing a cane covers a lot of territory.

Carrying your escrima sticks might be a bit of an attention grabber. Carrying a cane, not so much. And you can carry a cane in places that will not allow other weapons (i.e. on a plane).

That is my point, but needing a cane does mean that most of the cane applications I see taught are not viable...if you actually need the cane. And I'm speaking from experience here, I've needed one a lot over the last couple years. No one who needs a cane to walk is going to deliver a jumping side kick to someones head, after using the cane for blocks that depend on having 2 working legs to actually pull of the blocks. But a cane can be used, by someone who needs it, for SD..... you just have to show them how...without the side kicks and jumps...and it can be effective.

And let me add, anyone showing that you should use the hook of the cane to pull the attacker closer so you can attack...has never needed a cane and has no idea what it is like to be old. The last thing a person with an infirmity, or an older person should be doing is pulling a younger, stinger attacker towards them.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It depends on how the body is moving, to make that uniform movement effective. Also, that clip says baji, but it looks like xing-I to me.

If it make sense, should the "body unification" requirement be applied to all MA systems?

 

[Flying Crane]

Should the "body unification" requirement be applied to all MA systems?

I believe it is an effective approach. Assuming it is being done in a manner that makes sense.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

that clip says baji, but it looks like xing-I to me.

It's very common that people take the path (myself included):

long fist -> Baji -> XingYi

I believe it is an effective approach. Assuming it is being done in a manner that makes sense.

In computer programming, it doesn't matter which computer language that you use to write your program, you should not use "go to". In other words, there should be a general guideline that is above all programming languages.

I believe the "body unification" requirement should be applied on all MA systems as well.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's very common that people take the path (myself included):

long fist -> Baji -> XingYi

That’s fine, I only commented on my observation: it looks like Xing-I, not Baji, in my experience, which I admit is limited. If I’m wrong, that is ok with me, as I am no expert in either system. I had no idea what path the fellow in the video has taken.

In computer programming, it doesn't matter which computer language that you use to write your program, you should not use "go to". In other words, there should be a general guideline that is above all programming languages.

I’ve had one semester of Python, I cannot relate to what you are saying here. No idea. For me, coding would be a miserable choice as a profession.

I believe the "body unification" requirement should be applied on all MA systems as well.

It makes sense to me as a methodology, as far as I understand it in my own training. I am an advocate. It is my opinion that a system or a school that lacks it on some level is missing something important.

However, I am no expert on everything, so I hesitate to make rules for others. I can only take care of myself and those I may teach. I can only say “here is a method that I follow, that seems to get good results”.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I saw a jump back, low cane block,. high cane strike, jumping side kick to the head...left me thinking.

I can’t do that even when I don’t need a cane.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Don't mean to go all Bruce Lee on you here, but the goal should be simply to simplify. Yes you need options, but if one of those options is a spinning back flibberty jibber over head, with a twist to a side kick headstand to a full nelson surplex..... no one is ever going to remember that under pressure

I think the concept is to get students using a given technique in as many ways as possible, so they get past the specific movement to the principles. Whether that is successful or not is probably pretty variable.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If it make sense, should the "body unification" requirement be applied to all MA systems?

Why should it be a requirement applied to other systems?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's very common that people take the path (myself included):

long fist -> Baji -> XingYi


In computer programming, it doesn't matter which computer language that you use to write your program, you should not use "go to". In other words, there should be a general guideline that is above all programming languages.

I believe the "body unification" requirement should be applied on all MA systems as well.

This is an interesting example, since “go to” is a best practice (perhaps even necessary) in VBA error handling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why should it be a requirement applied to other systems?

It's harder to coordinate punch with your back leg.

It's easier to coordinate punch with your leading leg.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's harder to coordinate punch with your back leg.

It's easier to coordinate punch with your leading leg.

In my opinion, your back leg usually isn’t moving until later. The back leg pushes.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In my opinion, your back leg usually isn’t moving until later. The back leg pushes.

The time between you bend your back leg and the time you straight your back leg is too long. It's harder to coordinate your punch with that long time period (unless you punch very slow). But if you coordinate your punch with your leading foot landing, since the landing time is so noticeable, it's much easier to coordinate punch with leading foot landing.

I used too train both ways. Today, I only train 1 way. I no long train "slow punch". Also to stand still and punch without moving the legs no longer interested me.

 

[geezer]

In my opinion, your back leg usually isn’t moving until later. The back leg pushes.

In the WC I trained, punches can be thrown independently of steps, but my best punches are linked to my body movement, with one punch timed with my lead leg and the second, usually more powerful punch, timed with the rear leg. But our footwork is very tight and compact and quite different form what John showed in his clips.

So to answer John's question, should it be a requirement that all martial arts show "body unification"? Well all the ones I know of do have "body unification", but they express and train it very differently. And of course, there always may be some movements that break the rules.

In fact, from what I've seen of old school Chinese martial arts, masters seem to delight in breaking rules. Or at least in seeming to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And of course, there always may be some movements that break the rules.

Do you have any example that break the rules?

For defense (maximum power is not needed), people may break this rule. But for offense (maximum power is needed), do people still break this rule on purpose?

If you step and punch, that's 2 moves. If you step and punch at the same time, that's 1 move. Since 1 move is always better than 2 moves (faster and more powerful), I just can't find any reason that people want to break his attack into 2 moves than just 1 move.