So what if untold millions have had their understanding of history corrupted by the 2000 year thing? Most practitioners don't even care about Taekwondo's history, anymore than the average tennis player cares about tennis history. FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei in his autobiography couldn't give an accurate account of Karate's history beyond his own teachers.
Looking for written sources on TKD
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KarateMomUSA
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Yes there are often many who don't care about history, hence they are all too often "doomed to repeat it"!
History is history for history's sake.
We all must do our part to insure that a more complete & accurate history of our respected TKD is preserved for transmission to future TKDin for all time. It is to me a laudable goal, is it not?
Don't you Puunui agree?
Don't other readers agree?
Because people do not care about history, does not give any excuse to ignore the truth, nor does it allow others to fabricate myths & spread it as history!
I used to think so, but I'm beginning to think not. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking about General Choi, because when I do, I have to sift through the convoluted web of lies and fabrications. I don't want to think about him, anymore than the pioneers want to think about him. For me, thinking about General Choi is like thinking about the door ding and rust spot on your car. To the average car driver, it doesn't matter if General Choi came up with the name "automobile" or not. They don't care if General Choi made the most cars by himself by hand. If General Choi wants to write a book and take credit for everything that Henry Ford did, then he is free to do so. But please don't ask me to comment anymore on the claims contained in General Choi's "The History of the Automobile" book. I don't want to think about what was written in that book. It gives me a headache.
KarateMomUSA
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Sad & I might add a bit beneath someone of your stature. Imagine not crediting someone who did so much for so many in another style of martial art, just because he was the troublemaker for those in another style.
KarateMomUSA
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This is another reason why the 2,000 year old most be thrown out the window, it only provides cannon fodder for opposing view points
Not because he was a troublemaker, but because he lied so much. GM Son said he lied in the newspaper article, GM LEE Chong Woo said he lied in the yook article, he admitted to Taekkyon GM LEE Yong Bok that he lied about learning Taekkyon on videotape, GM LEE Won Kuk said he lied about his karate training in Japan. If you wish to give credit to his accomplishments in ITF, then go for it. But I think you want more than that, you want recognition from outside of ITF, from the Kukkiwon, WTF and perhaps other places as well.
Earl Weiss
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Interesting analogy. I think it appropriate. Perhaps Henry Ford did not invent the automobile. But he made it available to the masses thru various processes and standardazation.
Seems like General Choi was to TKD what Henry Ford was to automobiles. And just like Henry Ford his rivals and competitors who got left behind dissed him.
Ober time some newer competitors began to take away market share.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
From what I have read thus far, it should be Nam, Tae-hi who gets the credit. It seems he was the one who had the real martial art knowledge and Gen. Choi just had the connections.
I see it now...GM Nam runs in to Gen Choi's office. "Sir, we should make sure that the troops use a bit more hip when punching." Gen. Choi "I have a better idea, we should make sure that when troops are punching that their hips are used a bit more. I'm glad I thought of that."
KarateMomUSA
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That is funny, as Puunui says GM Nam was a novice of some sorts.
You know all the TKD history has people perspective on it and heersay, just because one senior say this and another say the opposite. We as TKD'ers need to believe what we consider to be the truth out there, not one single person has given enough proof one way or another to sway an argument in there favor. Just because someone writes a book does not mean all the content is spot on and just because someone sit down with a cup of green tea does not mean his stories is the gospel truth.
I have read and talked to alot of senior and alot of books and one thing is for sure if senior one does not like senior two than senior two story is wrong and vs. versa. For every book that say this there is another saying something completely different, even people that was there have two different version to tell. So in closing I would suggest that we all remember it is what we believe and how we continue to train in the art/sport and how we pass the material down from us to our students. This is what will shape our MA and this is how we can make a more positive unified approach to the developement to TKD.
:asian:
I have read and talked to alot of senior and alot of books and one thing is for sure if senior one does not like senior two than senior two story is wrong and vs. versa. For every book that say this there is another saying something completely different, even people that was there have two different version to tell. So in closing I would suggest that we all remember it is what we believe and how we continue to train in the art/sport and how we pass the material down from us to our students. This is what will shape our MA and this is how we can make a more positive unified approach to the developement to TKD.
:asian:
KarateMomUSA
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Yes of course we do need to get independent verification of what people said & proof of what happened. This process is now underway & has been in some form or another, since the military dictators have long been gone & freedom of speech & the press is now flourishing is south Korea. This is why you see the Modern History in 1999 & the Yook interview in 2002. The nasty politics that manipulated the truth, hid facts & wrote people out of history for various reasons are now gone, so more of what actually happened in coming to the surface.
So it is not what we believe, but more of = is what I believe based in reality, do I have support for my beliefs, can I filter through the propaganda put out by so many for numerous reasons?
I didn't say, GM LEE Won Kuk and the Chung Do Kwan seniors said.
I guess if you say it enough times, maybe some people will believe you. The General Choi approach.
I think you believe you can do that, but I don't believe you can.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Obviously, GM Nam, Tae Hi was a great asset to Gen. Choi and I am glad that he's gotten a bit of "press" in the last decade or so. I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say about who should get the credit. Anybody have any resources about what he has said on the subject?
Pax,
Chris
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Which may very well be, but it seemed his novice knowledge still trumped Gen. Choi's "expert" knowledge. That says a lot right there.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Have you asked GM Nam about Gen. Choi's experience when they founded the Oh Do Kwan? Or about why a General would or wouldn't directly train all of the men under his command? I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say about those things.
Pax,
Chris
Sir, would you please stop with the veiled personal digs?
You have a lot to contribute and you certainly are knowledgeable. You do not need to take the low shots.
Daniel
I'm sure that Choi had real MA knowledge, though I'm not going to get into who had more.
Anytime you have a leader with a strong personality or an organization that revolves around a small number of leaders, there will always be unsung heroes. It is always great when the unsung receive their due credit.
Regarding connections, connections go a very long way in building an organization. Of course, having highly knowledgeable and competent people to support you is vital as well, something that some leaders do not like to acknowledge.
Daniel
Earl Weiss
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You make the above statement based on ......what?
