Learning Japanese

[Floating Egg]

I realize that there have been a number of threads related to the Japanese language, and I intended to post in one of those, but after reviewing the questions I wanted to ask, I thought it best to start a fresh thread.

I'm currently struggling through the basics of the Japanese language using a variety of aids. My core study program consists of Pimsleur Japanese 1, 2, and 3. I also have some video based learning materials that introduce the viewer to Japanese customs as well as the language. To top it off, I have a few books on the subject.

After digging deep into Pimsleur Japanese 1, I have some questions regarding the process of learning a language. I find the whole experience rather unique, and at times troubling.

At some point I assume that I will no longer have to internally translate what I want to say before I say it. Am I correct in this assumption? Right now, I'm still thinking in English I guess, so when I try to speak Japanese I have to make a rather slow and cumborsome change in how I think, and I find the whole thing rather frustrating.

I've heard of people becoming fluent in a language in as little as a year. Is this possible? I've also heard of people learning how to speak other languages by watching cartoons or television programs. I don't understand how someone can do this without having other study aids available. I watch a lot of Japanese movies, and I've picked up very little from just watching them.

I don't understand how immersing one's self in a culture can speed up the absorption of a language. To me, it would just make the process more stressful. I can understand how moving to Japan will introduce people to certain words and saying, but there must be other material present in order to begin forming sentences, correct?

I find conversational Japanese very speedy, but I have to hear each individual word very clearly in order to translate it properly in my head. At what point does a person become familiar enough with the language to carry on a reasonably paced conversation? I understand that everyone is different, so I guess I'm looking for subjective experiences here, not statistics.

I don't think that I'll be bi-lingual when I've gone through these various study aids, but perhaps semi-fluent if I'm lucky. How does one make the leap from just being able to get around to speaking the language almost as well as a native speaker? Are we talking decades here?

That's about all that I can think of right now. Sorry if this post is a little long.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of immersion. A few years ago, I went on a year-long cultural student exchange to Japan. Without any knowledge of the Japanese language at all, I was placed with a host family in rural Japan and attended Japanese high school. My exposure to English was virtually non-existent, and I was forced to learn Japanese in order to assimilate. My teaching aids were very minimal, being some basic kanji flashcards, a dictionary, and some elementary books that I found in the teachers' lounge. Additionally, some of the English teachers gave me a few lessons every once in a while. I could go into extenuating detail about my exchange, but suffice it to say that after my year was up, I was semi-fluent in the language. I know other exchangers who had taken one or two Japanese language courses before going to Japan and were able to pass JLPT level 2 upon returning.

With regards to your study of the language, I can't stress enough the necessity of speaking with natives. Practice speaking conversation and you'll become better at it. I could hold a normal conversation within 4 months of total immersion, though I'd assume that it would take longer for people without that opportunity. Lacking natives, probably the next best thing would be to watch Japanese TV (not anime). I couldn't comment on how long it takes to speak as well as a native. There are some who spend their whole lives trying and don't manage to get there. There are others who master don't in 5-10 years (you see these types of people on Japanese TV constantly). It seems to be all relative to the dedication and resources you put into it.

 

[Don Roley]

I find conversational Japanese very speedy, but I have to hear each individual word very clearly in order to translate it properly in my head. At what point does a person become familiar enough with the language to carry on a reasonably paced conversation?

It depends. On things you know about and subjects you are familiar with, not long. But sometims just one word you do not knwo can really foul you up.

And immersion is stressfull, but it is like the way that people used to teach people to swim. They threw them in the river. People learn pretty fast when they really, really need to and there is no crutch to lean on.

I tell people to learn a bit of the language before they arrive in Japan. If they know enough to get by on their own even a little, they get a heck of a lot better in a short time. But I can't think of many people who did not learn the language beforehand who got to any decent level when here. I do not know if it is the attitude they show by learning beforehand, or if they never get over having Japanese people help them in English. But I suspect the latter. If people think they can get by, they try more and learn more in the process. Immersion kind of makes them do so anyways.

 

[Simon Curran]

Another subjective experience;

Although I realise that there is a long way from learning Danish to learning Japanese, when I first moved here, I had some very basic Danish (my girlfriend is a Dane) but like DonRoley said, getting thrown in at the deep end usually means you have to swim, and at my work place very few people speak any English whatsoever.
Suffice it to say that within a month I could get by with basic sentences, and within 3 months I was reasonably fluent, there is no better motivator than necessity...

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I'm in the same boat as you. I decided to start Japanese study a couple of weeks ago and I am going about it in a rote manner by listening to tapes of basic words and phrases. I used the Pimsleur method for French and found it far superior to my five years of H.S. and college French because of it's focus on utility and it's constant quizzing of material. Like the other posters wrote, you can't beat immersion, if it's possible. Good luck on your journey.

 

[Shorin Ryuu]

I really would recommend learning how to read as well. Once you link pronunciation with characters and everything else, it is just easier in my mind, at least. I liked James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji series. I've finished the first book and am working through the second.

Other things that are useful are as you mentioned are Japanese programs (3 cheers for J-drama...haha), music, or even radio dramas. Of course, this is supplemented by other learning...