Best way to learn Japanese for the total beginner?

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by jeffbeish

I attempted to translate some old certificates I have that is written in Japanese.

If you can scan them and send them to me by email I would be more than happy to translate them for you.

 

[jeffbeish]

Sorry I missed your reply here. I will scan my old shodan paper and send it to you via e-mail. Hopefully I can maintain resolution while reducing the size to fit. It is hard to scan some things and have them readable. Anyway, I will do it soon, today.

 

[jeffbeish]

Well, the image would not go so here it is to translate. I managed to translate some of it but after all the years have gone by, so has my memory. The certificate image is the upper half since the lower has the English inset. Seems like the date is different in Japanese from the English. It should be September 28, 1961, but I think it says 1965 in Japanese. Oh well, first in, last out

BTW, this is one of the very first certificates that included the English box. My first paper, lost and could never fighure out how, was all Japanese and appeared nearly the same as this one -- except it as in black and red against white. The old days!

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by jeffbeish

Well, the image would not go so here it is to translate. I managed to translate some of it but after all the years have gone by, so has my memory. The certificate image is the upper half since the lower has the English inset. Seems like the date is different in Japanese from the English. It should be September 28, 1961, but I think it says 1965 in Japanese. Oh well, first in, last out

BTW, this is one of the very first certificates that included the English box. My first paper, lost and could never fighure out how, was all Japanese and appeared nearly the same as this one -- except it as in black and red against white. The old days!

That is some really old style Japanese. No wonder it was difficult to look up the words.

Going from right to left:

It is certificate # 31981

Jeffery Day Beish

Nippon Kodokan Judo

Has trained vigorously and made much improvement
as to progress to the level of shodan
and will continue to improve/develop.

Showa 40 October 28th
(1960 Oct. 28)


Kodokan Judo Cho (managers name)

 

[jeffbeish]

Thanks Robert, I had some of it right, or nearly so, but some of the repeats were difficult to determine what they meant. The certificate number I attempted to translate would be the same as my Kodokan life membership (# 17496) so I thought, but never came close to # 31981. It was very difficult so I just forgot it. They misspelled my first name, but so do most people here do too and the “Day” is their attempt to do “D.” Katakana and Hiragana were not perfected in those days. I guess the date will always be a mystery. My transaction was of the Japanese date was September 28, 1965, the English states September 28, 1961, and your translation is October 28th 1960. Anyway, it was a long time ago.

Maybe it was an attempt to correct the original certificate from their records that was lost. The first Judoka who had the first English inset was Rich Whither, who had just made sandan the same time I made shodan and close to the first with that inset by a year or so. The old certificates were in just Japanese and were hand made for each person! But, with that certificate number you can see there were few black belts in the world then! My old JBBF card shows my #1-1988. Maybe they belong in the Smithsonian, huh? Or better still, the Smithsonian-San.

I still have a great little book, A Guide to Reading and Writing Japanese, pub. Charles E. Tuttle, 1959 edition, that has four sections: 1) The 881 Essential Characters, 2) The 1,850 General-Use Characters, 3) Proposed Changes, and 3) Syllabary: Katakana and Hiragana. The first section gives the character and definition and variations and the next breaks down each character by number of brush or pen strokes. Of course, it is way out of date, but good for the older translations.

Anyway, thanks a zillion. Maybe I will find sme more stuff.

 

[Cthulhu]

Ah, the old Japanese Imperial reign-based calendar system.

Showa indicates the reign of Emperor Hirohito (currently, Japan is in the Heisei era, indicating the reign of Hirohito's sun, Akihito), with each year of Showa counting as one year of reign. For example, Hirohito's reign started in 1926. That first year of his reign is called Showa 1.

Since the date on the certificate was Showa 40, I think jeffbeish's translation of 1965 to be the more accurate one. It could be 1965 or 1966...I don't know the exact day Hirohito came to power.

I really need to get off my butt and (re)learn the language. My mother is Okinawan, and a perfect person to converse with to reinforce my knowledge of the language.

One of these days.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

I really need to get off my butt and (re)learn the language. My mother is Okinawan, and a perfect person to converse with to reinforce my knowledge of the language.

I understood that the Okinawans largely claim that their Ryukyuan language is a separate language from Japanese, while the Japanese and all disinterested linguists maintain that it's a dialect of Japanese.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, to Okinawans, hougen is its own separate language. If you ever hear it, I think you'd agree. I'm not sure about grammatical structure and syntax, but the words are very different.

However, since Okinawa has been under Japan's control for around 400 years (minus a few decades after WWII), Japanese is the official language, with hougen rapidly becoming a dead tongue.

Cthulhu

 

[jeffbeish]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

Ah, the old Japanese Imperial reign-based calendar system.

Since the date on the certificate was Showa 40, I think jeffbeish's translation of 1965 to be the more accurate one. It could be 1965 or 1966...I don't know the exact day Hirohito came to power.

Cthulhu

That may be true since after I lost my original paper, I was presented shodan in 1961, Kotani sensei was visiting Bergstrom AFB, TX later on I think in 1965, and brought me another certificate. The English inset says 1961, but the Japanese says 1965, to at least form my loose translation. I asked about it once and was given various explanations. Ironically, it was Kotani sensei who tested me after batsugan in 1961 and presented me tithe first certificate then.

yeah, it seems like there is too much to do arond the house to re-learn Japanese

 

[jeffbeish]

Originally posted by arnisador



I understood that the Okinawans largely claim that their Ryukyuan language is a separate language from Japanese, while the Japanese and all disinterested linguists maintain that it's a dialect of Japanese.

My first okasan was Okinawan and she and others taught me some hougen, or Ryukyuan. I still remember "nifee biedu" for thanks. Spelling is way off. Okianwans are much-o different from the Japanese. My astronomy friend who lives in Japan also has relatives on Okinawa and visits there often to Observe Mars when it is up. He also tells me great stories of the island. When we were in Japan this March he offered to pay my way to Okinawa to give a talk on Mars for the astronomers down there. I was tempted, but the trip to Japan was to see out son and grandkids, so a side trip was out of the question. Man, would I have loved to se the island again after 40 years. Oh well, you can never go back.

Hey Cthulhu, do you look anything like me My Okinawa son should be somwhere around 40 years old by now. :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by jeffbeish

Thanks Robert, I had some of it right, or nearly so, but some of the repeats were difficult to determine what they meant. The certificate number I attempted to translate would be the same as my Kodokan life membership (# 17496) so I thought, but never came close to # 31981. It was very difficult so I just forgot it. They misspelled my first name, but so do most people here do too and the “Day” is their attempt to do “D.” Katakana and Hiragana were not perfected in those days. I guess the date will always be a mystery. My transaction was of the Japanese date was September 28, 1965, the English states September 28, 1961, and your translation is October 28th 1960. Anyway, it was a long time ago.

Sorry I made 2 stupid mistakes.

It is Sept and not Oct. and Showa 40 is 1965.


The "Day" is the way some japanese say "D"......kind of weird.

A,B,C, Day, E, Efu..........

 

[Humble artist]

Hi Kaith.
I wonder if you still check this thread out,even at times...
I do not study japanese,soon will,and know very little.
But I think that as you are about to self-study (if that still is the case) I´d be careful when choosing material,to avoid all the bad and gather some of the good.
Try to collect a comprehensive set of material around you and it should not be that of a pain.
I personally only have one,single,comprehensive dictionary (studying from this situtation is not worth trying) stick to basics and start rising further.
Certainly try to invest in tapes/audio material to get your pronouncation right and the feeling of living language.
Writing with all of it´s different forms and complexity is painful but certainly important to learn.

I´d recommend checking out amazon.com as an example,since there is some stuff and also analyse´s on various products.
I recently ordered a set called "Ultimate Japanese-basic-intermediate (living language" which includes 8 tapes and a worthy book.
I had a good experience with related product on mandarin,decent for a beginner to understand and covering a lot of needed,basic stuff in various levels (still it would not really hurt to study grammar etc. carefully)
So take your time (if still possible) with it.

BTW,if you are going to study spoken language (talking solely of it) you might want to check out Pimsleur´s tapes.
It is a very popular,respected and quite well-known author on living language.
They have stuff on japanese,and learning language with their methods is relatively easy (referring to those saying that and my own experiences)
And remember,it is not no easy language to learn.

My cents and opinions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks for the info. I definately want to learn, however a lack of time to really devote to the study, plus a lack of 'speakers' slows things down alot. (more so the time factor).

I gotta start hanging out at the University, or better yet, find a class.

 

[LB_Karateka]

hey all, being the new guy around i thought i'd take this chance to start sucking up. j/k but i am full blooded japanese and am fluent thanx to my parents dragging me to japanese school kicking and screaming when i was a kid. feel free to ask me if theres anything i can help with. :asian:

 

[jeffbeish]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Thanks for the info. I definately want to learn, however a lack of time to really devote to the study, plus a lack of 'speakers' slows things down alot. (more so the time factor).

I gotta start hanging out at the University, or better yet, find a class.

Haven't been here in a while. My best Judo buddy was from Long Beach, CA. He was or is a Nisei who I met in Air Force boot camp in 1959 and subsequently were went to tech-school together and the stationed at Ashiya AFB, Japan then Naha AB, Okinawa. I lost contact with him back in 1963 or 64. Anyway, we would converse in Japanese and Okinawian a lot to better understand the languages. Haven’t heard a word of him since he won a couple AAU championships back in the late 1960’s. His name is Masato J. Yamashita and at times goes by Masayuki.

 

[Cthulhu]

jeffbeish, welcome back, you old Judoka, you!



Cthulhu

 

[jeffbeish]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
jeffbeish, welcome back, you old Judoka, you!



Cthulhu

Hey, thanks for thinking. I lurk but have been busy lately with several scientific papers on Mars. We are putting together a controversial paper on “global warming” as it relates to our research into a possible warming of the Mars atmosphere over the past century. It is a teaser to a real detailed scientific treaty (gobbledygook) that will appear on a professional journal whenever they get around to reviewing it. That takes several trips to the red line, referees, and several trips to the editors. By the time it is published no of will remember ever doing it!

Did hear about rene Pomeralle passing away. The last time I saw him was in 1968 when the belated 1968 Olympic Judo Team came to Kittyhawk to vent steam for not getting to go to the Olympics.

 

[YouAgain]

I started taking Jappanese classes at the beggining of this year the hardest thing about it is the 3 different alphabets..... I'm only just starting to grasp the language.....

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by YouAgain
I started taking Jappanese classes at the beggining of this year the hardest thing about it is the 3 different alphabets..... I'm only just starting to grasp the language.....

I don’t know if you have started it or not but most people consider the verb conjugation in Japanese to be the hardest part of the language.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by KumaSan
Oh yeah, "ai" generally means love. "Wo" I'm not too sure about, I'd need some context on that one.

"wo" (pronounced "o" in modern Japanese) is a particle used to denote the direct object of a sentence.
E.g.:
Watashi wa hon wo yomu
"I read books".
HTH,