Last Person Thread #4

[Buka]

Imagine this - I used to live on Maui. Got the jury notice in the mail fifteen times over ten years. You called a number the night before your service date to see if there was actually going to be a trial. All fifteen times there was not (Yay!)

Then - I get a notice for Federal Jury Duty on the island Oahu.
So I have to drive an hour down the mountain to the airport.....
then fly to Oahu which is a 25 minute flight, but an hour from gate to gate....
Then take a half hour bus ride to the court.

What had always been the procedure for off island jurors was they put you up in a hotel until the end of the trial. BUT, that had just changed the week before. The NEW procedure, was, as told to us by the Judge - "This trial should last between four and six weeks, maybe longer. We no longer put you up in a hotel, you will fly home every afternoon and fly back the following morning. No exceptions. And don't you dare be late. You will put your travel charges on your credit card and be reimbursed at the end of every month."

So, they wanted me to take two plane rides a day, two bus rides a day, and two hour long car drives a day, for four to six weeks.And on my dime? Have you ever heard anything so bizarre?

I had spoken to the court officer when I got there and he told me the lady Judge was the meanest woman he had ever known, and there was no way I was getting out of this, everybody tried and everybody failed. I appealed to her, but to no avail......at first. After she covered all of our duties, she asked if any of the jurors had any questions. I stood and went into the greatest speech of my life. All one hundred percent bull crap.

I told her, and I'm paraphrasing here, and shortening, that I had a problem. That I was a former police officer and I profiled. I profiled everyone and everything, it's all I do. It affected everything I did. I sought psychiatric counselling for two years, but to no avail. In fairness to the law, my psychiatrist suggest I find a new profession. Which I did. I quit Law Enforcement, for the better of society, and now worked as a landscaper. But, your Honor, I still profile, I mean, look at the defendant, you know he's guilty as much as I do. (Oh, and he was, he looked like he came out of a cheap dime novel and smirked the whole time he was there) The only thing that counters that, your Honor, is the ridiculous hairdo of the prosecutor. (Which looked like a jelly roll from the nineteen fifties.)

The Judge started to actually quake with rage. She looked down at her papers, said, "Mister Buka, get out of my courtroom before I throw you in jail on contempt charges." I said, yes, ma'am," and walked out quickly. As I got to the other side of the door, the same Court Officer said, "You better run, brother, she'll probably have us come get you, she's done it before." I ran. I ran past the bus stop for six blocks to the next stop.

The Jury pool was then considered tainted and they had to start over again. Much to the delight, I'm sure, of everyone who lived off island. I have not been back to Oahu since, nor will I ever. Two plane rides a day. Ya, right.

I wish I could tell you that was my worst experience with Jury Duty. But it's not even close

 

[granfire]

well, back from my 'good deed'

As it goes, I got a bait and switch.
Instead of having an easy few hours, I got a whole floor to clean, and then there wasn't even a hot dog left when I came down....
Needless to say, I am so not happy!

 

[granfire]

Imagine this - I used to live on Maui. Got the jury notice in the mail fifteen times over ten years. You called a number the night before your service date to see if there was actually going to be a trial. All fifteen times there was not (Yay!)

Then - I get a notice for Federal Jury Duty on the island Oahu.
So I have to drive an hour down the mountain to the airport.....
then fly to Oahu which is a 25 minute flight, but an hour from gate to gate....
Then take a half hour bus ride to the court.

What had always been the procedure for off island jurors was they put you up in a hotel until the end of the trial. BUT, that had just changed the week before. The NEW procedure, was, as told to us by the Judge - "This trial should last between four and six weeks, maybe longer. We no longer put you up in a hotel, you will fly home every afternoon and fly back the following morning. No exceptions. And don't you dare be late. You will put your travel charges on your credit card and be reimbursed at the end of every month."

So, they wanted me to take two plane rides a day, two bus rides a day, and two hour long car drives a day, for four to six weeks.And on my dime? Have you ever heard anything so bizarre?

I had spoken to the court officer when I got there and he told me the lady Judge was the meanest woman he had ever known, and there was no way I was getting out of this, everybody tried and everybody failed. I appealed to her, but to no avail......at first. After she covered all of our duties, she asked if any of the jurors had any questions. I stood and went into the greatest speech of my life. All one hundred percent bull crap.

I told her, and I'm paraphrasing here, and shortening, that I had a problem. That I was a former police officer and I profiled. I profiled everyone and everything, it's all I do. It affected everything I did. I sought psychiatric counselling for two years, but to no avail. In fairness to the law, my psychiatrist suggest I find a new profession. Which I did. I quit Law Enforcement, for the better of society, and now worked as a landscaper. But, your Honor, I still profile, I mean, look at the defendant, you know he's guilty as much as I do. (Oh, and he was, he looked like he came out of a cheap dime novel and smirked the whole time he was there) The only thing that counters that, your Honor, is the ridiculous hairdo of the prosecutor. (Which looked like a jelly roll from the nineteen fifties.)

The Judge started to actually quake with rage. She looked down at her papers, said, "Mister Buka, get out of my courtroom before I throw you in jail on contempt charges." I said, yes, ma'am," and walked out quickly. As I got to the other side of the door, the same Court Officer said, "You better run, brother, she'll probably have us come get you, she's done it before." I ran. I ran past the bus stop for six blocks to the next stop.

The Jury pool was then considered tainted and they had to start over again. Much to the delight, I'm sure, of everyone who lived off island. I have not been back to Oahu since, nor will I ever. Two plane rides a day. Ya, right.

I wish I could tell you that was my worst experience with Jury Duty. But it's not even close

Thanks for the chuckle!
That sounds like material for a movie though!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Imagine this - I used to live on Maui. Got the jury notice in the mail fifteen times over ten years. You called a number the night before your service date to see if there was actually going to be a trial. All fifteen times there was not (Yay!)

Then - I get a notice for Federal Jury Duty on the island Oahu.
So I have to drive an hour down the mountain to the airport.....
then fly to Oahu which is a 25 minute flight, but an hour from gate to gate....
Then take a half hour bus ride to the court.

What had always been the procedure for off island jurors was they put you up in a hotel until the end of the trial. BUT, that had just changed the week before. The NEW procedure, was, as told to us by the Judge - "This trial should last between four and six weeks, maybe longer. We no longer put you up in a hotel, you will fly home every afternoon and fly back the following morning. No exceptions. And don't you dare be late. You will put your travel charges on your credit card and be reimbursed at the end of every month."

So, they wanted me to take two plane rides a day, two bus rides a day, and two hour long car drives a day, for four to six weeks.And on my dime? Have you ever heard anything so bizarre?

I had spoken to the court officer when I got there and he told me the lady Judge was the meanest woman he had ever known, and there was no way I was getting out of this, everybody tried and everybody failed. I appealed to her, but to no avail......at first. After she covered all of our duties, she asked if any of the jurors had any questions. I stood and went into the greatest speech of my life. All one hundred percent bull crap.

I told her, and I'm paraphrasing here, and shortening, that I had a problem. That I was a former police officer and I profiled. I profiled everyone and everything, it's all I do. It affected everything I did. I sought psychiatric counselling for two years, but to no avail. In fairness to the law, my psychiatrist suggest I find a new profession. Which I did. I quit Law Enforcement, for the better of society, and now worked as a landscaper. But, your Honor, I still profile, I mean, look at the defendant, you know he's guilty as much as I do. (Oh, and he was, he looked like he came out of a cheap dime novel and smirked the whole time he was there) The only thing that counters that, your Honor, is the ridiculous hairdo of the prosecutor. (Which looked like a jelly roll from the nineteen fifties.)

The Judge started to actually quake with rage. She looked down at her papers, said, "Mister Buka, get out of my courtroom before I throw you in jail on contempt charges." I said, yes, ma'am," and walked out quickly. As I got to the other side of the door, the same Court Officer said, "You better run, brother, she'll probably have us come get you, she's done it before." I ran. I ran past the bus stop for six blocks to the next stop.

The Jury pool was then considered tainted and they had to start over again. Much to the delight, I'm sure, of everyone who lived off island. I have not been back to Oahu since, nor will I ever. Two plane rides a day. Ya, right.

I wish I could tell you that was my worst experience with Jury Duty. But it's not even close

Back when I was security for the state some of the LEOs I knew told me that if I was ever selected for jury duty, make sure I told them what I do, not that it would get me out of jury duty, but it was the set up I needed. In my state they generally ask if you know the defendant, at that point they told me to say..."hmm, I don't know" and then ask the bailiff if I could borrow his maglite..... walk up to the defendant, or at least get as close as I could, hold the maglite up like we did when checking cars in the dark, shine it in the defendants face...look for a second..... then say...."Nope" and go back with the rest of the jurors......

 

[Xue Sheng]

Saw the Beijing Acrobats last night and it was a great show. If you ever get a chance I recommend going to see them.

 

[Steve]

I don't understand why so many people work so hard to get out of jury duty. I understand when it's a financial hardship or something like that, or in your case, Buka... that sounds ridiculous. But for most people, it's inconvenient and little more. I would rather not do jury duty, but as citizens of the USA, we don't have very many civic obligations outside of jury duty, voting and paying taxes.

I'm surprised by the elaborate strategies for being recused from jury duty, and DirtyDog's elitist notions about jurists being undereducated and gullible. I had no idea how reviled participating in the court systems is around here.

 

[Steve]

Saw the Beijing Acrobats last night and it was a great show. If you ever get a chance I recommend going to see them.

I bet that was cool. I like watching acrobats.

 

[ks - learning to fly]

flew back to the Cities yesterday from the tournament and
kind of glad I arranged to take today off - I'm still a little worn..

 

[Rich Parsons]

The last time I was called for Jury Duty, we were sitting for two judges in a large pool. The first judge had cleared most of his cases and wanted to go home. The second got called at lunch that his daughter was in an accident and he left. So the first sat the seconds cases. He came in at the end of lunch and asked everyone what they did for a profession and education. There were engineers like myself, a couple of lawyers, a retired police officer or two, current police and some other educated accountant and technical professions. Including a couple of nurses.

Most of the cases were DUI, and or similar.

The judge went into the court room and told everyone there he wanted to go to trial. he was ready. He had a jury pool that would guarantee logical thinking people on all the cases. There was no way to get a jury without at least one.

The defendants then started talking to the Prosecutors about deals.

We were out of there in about 45 minutes.

 

[Steve]

I've been thinking about this, and I believe what really irks me about this prevailing elitist attitude towards jury duty is the implication that the people who are on trial are all guilty, and that the attorneys all want idiots who will believe a lie. What you guys are describing is a court system where everyone who is on trial is guilty and trying to get away with a crime, and are hoping for a jury of dumbasses. That's an incredibly cynical view of the entire process, and I'm glad that it hasn't been my experience so far.

It's coming through loud and clear that you guys are not objective. Do you think it's possible that this lack of objectivity was clear at the time, as well?

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's coming through loud and clear that you guys are not objective. Do you think it's possible that this lack of objectivity was clear at the time, as well?

"Raise your hand if you have a graduate degree." [hands go up] "You're all dismissed."
No offense, but I don't see how objectivity or cynicism has anything to do with that.

Lawyers (on both sides) are paid to win their case. That's all. They can do this more easily if the jury believes the story they're told, even if it's somewhat (or incredibly) unlikely.

You might notice that I've not said if the person dismissing everyone with advanced degrees was the defense attorney or the prosecutor. Because it isn't pertinent.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's coming through loud and clear that you guys are not objective. Do you think it's possible that this lack of objectivity was clear at the time, as well?

Before we get all huffy, you should know I have been on a grand jury and did not try and get out of it. You should also know I was exempt from Jury duty, due to my job,back in the days the LEOs were joking with me about that. However that law has since been changed, but it would not matter anyway, I would not be exempt now.

And you should also know that I was told by more than one ADA, and more than one LEO, that there are those defense lawyers that absolutely kick out anyone they feel has to much education. Also had a DA tell me that he kicked anyone off the jury whose favorite show was CSI.

OK, now back to our regularly scheduled, not all to serious thread, the LPTv4

 

[Xue Sheng]

I discovered this evening that a native Chinese speaker, even though they have been in the country for several years, does not get the joke when they say "That is super Silly" and you respond with .."well at least it is not supercilious"..... Crickets I tells ya...all I heard was crickets...

 

[Xue Sheng]

just had a thought...what the heck am I doing here.... I should be in my basement doing taijiquan.

Night all

 

[granfire]

I discovered this evening that a native Chinese speaker, even though they have been in the country for several years, does not get the joke when they say "That is super Silly" and you respond with .."well at least it is not supercilious"..... Crickets I tells ya...all I heard was crickets...

I don't get it.
(non-native speaker, in-country for over 2 decades...)

I guess I am googling this

 

[Steve]

"Raise your hand if you have a graduate degree." [hands go up] "You're all dismissed."
No offense, but I don't see how objectivity or cynicism has anything to do with that.

Lawyers (on both sides) are paid to win their case. That's all. They can do this more easily if the jury believes the story they're told, even if it's somewhat (or incredibly) unlikely.

You might notice that I've not said if the person dismissing everyone with advanced degrees was the defense attorney or the prosecutor. Because it isn't pertinent.

Maybe it works different in Colorado, but that story wouldn't be possible according to the mechanics of how the jury selection process works here. I'm not saying you're full of ****, but I'm saying it is possible. No offense.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Maybe it works different in Colorado, but that story wouldn't be possible according to the mechanics of how the jury selection process works here.

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, both sides are given a certain number of dismissals they can use without giving a reason, as well as being able to dismiss potential jurors for some specific reason.

According to THIS SITE, this is called "challenges without cause" and "challenges with cause" and is (again, according to what I found with minimal research) pretty much how it works anywhere in the US, including federal courts.

According to THIS SITE, this holds true in WA, except that it is called a peremptory challenge.

So apparently, according to these sites (one of which is run by the WA state government), it most certainly IS possible. At least, that is how I read the statues of WA, as posted on an Official Washington State Government Website. Perhaps you can explain where I am incorrect in that reading?

 

[ks - learning to fly]

..back to work tomorrow

 

[Buka]

I've been thinking about this, and I believe what really irks me about this prevailing elitist attitude towards jury duty is the implication that the people who are on trial are all guilty, and that the attorneys all want idiots who will believe a lie. What you guys are describing is a court system where everyone who is on trial is guilty and trying to get away with a crime, and are hoping for a jury of dumbasses. That's an incredibly cynical view of the entire process, and I'm glad that it hasn't been my experience so far.

It's coming through loud and clear that you guys are not objective. Do you think it's possible that this lack of objectivity was clear at the time, as well?

My first experience serving my civic duty was many years ago, I was in my late twenties. I was an alternate juror. As the case was presented to us I was really surprised that the case actually got to trial. Grand larceny, a felony. The defendant was a nineteen year old kid, a college student, a black kid. He worked in a clothing store. The charges and evidence came from an eye witness, the store security guard.

The security guard was a guy who lived his roll. His uniform was customed tailored. It had pins attached, an extra flag on the sleeve, pressed by a dry cleaners, so many bells and whistles he looked almost military, military with rank. How do I know this? He wore it to court, wore it while testifying. Think about that for a second, a security guard wearing his security uniform to testify in court.

Apparently, he witnessed the young man hustling clothing into his car and leaving at the end of his shift. Although there was no actual inventory evidence of anything being missing from the clothing store, none, zip, nada, although what we supposedly stole was "an undetermined number of suits", the security guard had photos of the crime. Took them himself. Presented them, along with his written report from work and his testimony in court. The photos in question were two polaroids. (those instantly developed pictures from long ago) The two photos were taken by the security guard himself. From a hundred yards. In the night time. In the pouring rain. Under very little light. They were two photos of blackness, nothing but blackness. I can think of no other way to describe them. I held them in my hands and studied them.

The jurors left to deliberate. They returned within a half hour. I wasn't surprised, I'm amazed it took that long.

They found him guilty. There was an audible gasp by all in attendance. The judge wiped his face.

I've been in my fair share of courtrooms. But this one, I could never forget. The judge apologized to the now "guilty" man. Told him that he, the judge, would personally file the appeal for the young man, and do everything in his power to have the appeal heard in a timely manner. He then turned to the jury. And fricken destroyed them. He told them that in his seventeen years on the bench he had never seen, never even heard of, such an outrageous miscarriage of justice. And they he, personally, would see to it that they would never serve on a jury again, ever for as long as they lived.He said, and I remember it like it was this morning, that they "sickened him" He then told them to leave his courtroom immediately. They walked out in shame while we all sat there, stunned.

I had written down the name of the defendant. Several years later, as a cop, I looked up the record. He won on appeal. So, yes, the system did eventually work.

But, NO, I am not describing "a court system where everyone who is on trial is guilty and trying to get away with a crime" But, YES, I am describing a "jury of dumbasses".

I know that's an isolated case, but, sadly, my experiences with Jury Duty actually went downhill from there.

I have, and will, do everything in my power never to be part of Jury Duty.

 

[Steve]

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, both sides are given a certain number of dismissals they can use without giving a reason, as well as being able to dismiss potential jurors for some specific reason.

According to THIS SITE, this is called "challenges without cause" and "challenges with cause" and is (again, according to what I found with minimal research) pretty much how it works anywhere in the US, including federal courts.

According to THIS SITE, this holds true in WA, except that it is called a peremptory challenge.

So apparently, according to these sites (one of which is run by the WA state government), it most certainly IS possible. At least, that is how I read the statues of WA, as posted on an Official Washington State Government Website. Perhaps you can explain where I am incorrect in that reading?

Your story, as told by you, could not have occurred. As I said, the mechanics of the process just wouldn't have allowed for it. I'm not saying you're making things up. I'm just saying I don't believe you. No offense.