lack of serious martial artists

[Gerry Seymour]

Our Kids classes used to be a smaller part of our school but over the past 3 years became the biggest part without trying. Our kickboxing class does great too but that is marketed purely for fitness. When I say serious I don't mean live in the dojo type of thing, I just mean that you are giving it your all and actually trying to improve. This usually isn't a problem with beginners, but as they go up in rank they seem to try less. I have about 5 or 6 serious adult students that have been with me any where from 2 to 8 years but we seem to only be able to keep most adults around for 6 months to a year. I often wonder it location is part of it since the majority of work in my town is manual labor, but that wouldn't explain why our kickboxing class does so well. There is a BJJ school in town that I train at a few times a week and even their adult classes only have about 6 on the mat at any given time, while their kids class has about 25 at any given time.
I think what gpseymour said is pretty accurate, Time commitments are hard to shift, and habits hard to alter, so some folks get started then find it's too difficult keeping the schedule they planned.

The way you describe the problem here, they sound uninspired, and maybe bored. I might be off, but consider what they are working on at that point in their training. Does it get more technical and less physical at that point? Is there a sharp drop-off in new stuff to work on? Are they spending too much time working on what the lower belts need, so they're not getting to work on what they need to progress?

 

[Buka]

That may be true but I suspect it depends a lot on how they advertise. I've been looking at schools a lot, having recently moved to a new city and it's been mostly online so I only see what they put on their website. I've got enough options that if the website doesn't present the kind of school I want to train in it doesn't make the list of places I intend to call. There's one BJJ place near me that has a very reputable instructor but his website puts a heavy emphasis on their kids classes and it appears to be their big focus. I'm not going to bother calling them even though they might have a fantastic adults program because they don't present themselves that way.


When I read this I wonder about your website and other forms of advertising. I've been interested in traditional Okinawan karate for a while and to a lesser degree traditional TKD. Almost all the karate and TKD web sites I visit put a huge focus on their kids classes and the fitness benefits an adult can expect. There's nothing wrong with that but when I see a site like that the feeling I get is that it's the karate equivalent of the boxercise (Get fit! You won't get hit!) places I've seen popping up all over with the addition of after school baby sitting. Since I want to train in a real martial art that doesn't speak to me and I move on to the next school's web page without digging any deeper. It may be that a lot of other people who want to do a real martial art do too.

Maybe consider....dojos open and close as much, or even more, than restaurants. The kids classes often pay the bills. The number one goal of a dojo isn't really teaching quality Martial Arts, it's staying open so it can teach quality Martial Arts. It's a seriously tough racket running a Martial Arts school.

Maybe go check them out. Might be really good. Might even be great. Spend a couple nights watching. Watcha' got to lose? Might even be fun.

 

[MetalBoar]

Maybe consider....dojos open and close as much, or even more, than restaurants. The kids classes often pay the bills. The number one goal of a dojo isn't really teaching quality Martial Arts, it's staying open so it can teach quality Martial Arts. It's a seriously tough racket running a Martial Arts school.

Maybe go check them out. Might be really good. Might even be great. Spend a couple nights watching. Watcha' got to lose? Might even be fun.

Buka, I sincerely love your positive attitude and the joy you have for martial arts. I hear what you're saying here and re-reading my post I think it could come off as negative and could be offensive to school owners who want to teach quality martial arts to adults as well as kids and are doing what they can to keep afloat and I'm not trying to do that. As the owner of a small strength training gym I understand that it's hard to keep something like a martial arts school going.

I also know that your average MA instructor doesn't have the skills nor money to create a great website nor write quality ad copy and that they're frequently using the same template that some company must be selling because I've seen it or ones that are very similar in at least 3 different states for dozens of different schools and a number of different arts. If they hire some web dev company and can only afford their lowest end services or pay for a generic site and fill out a couple of forms and upload a couple of pictures they aren't going to be able to differentiate themselves from all the other schools doing the same thing. I know that almost no one teaching MA is going to be able to do top notch SEO and frequently not even adequate SEO - by accident I just found a website for a local Shorin Ryu school that looks pretty good and there is absolutely no way to find it just by searching for Shorin Ryu or Okinawan Karate or martial arts school unless maybe you're willing to go 30+ pages deep in search results. I get that dismissing a school on these grounds isn't maybe fair and that I'm almost certainly missing schools where I'd enjoy training.

All that being said, the frustration your hear in my post comes from more than one past experience where I've gone and watched classes at a school and it's been obvious that the extent of their adult program is a few parents wanting to be involved with their kids and get in shape without any real interest in martial arts. I'm not being facetious when I say that I think it's great that parents want to be involved with their kids lives enough to go do martial arts with them and I think it's equally great that they're doing something to improve their fitness. As someone who doesn't have kids and generally has different ideas about fitness and who would rather be doing martial arts than golfing or watching TV I just don't feel like I'd fit in with that crowd.

If I were living in a smaller town where there were less than 20 martial arts schools to choose from I'm probably go look at them all. As it is there are over 20 BJJ schools alone within a 30 minute drive of my house and a Google maps search shows a similar number of schools that pop up with the search term "karate", though it doesn't look like those are all actually specifically karate schools. That's not counting the Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Aikido, Judo, Muay Thai, FMA, Wu Shu, Capoeira, boxing, fencing, etc. schools in the area. I've got to filter in some fashion because I'm not going to have time to look at 100+ schools and I know it's very likely I'll find a great place in fewer than 20 schools.

If a web site doesn't tell me anything about the instructor or the art they're teaching I'm probably going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If a web site looks like it's targeted at the fitness crowd I'm going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If a web site looks like it's targeted at kids classes I'm going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If it looks like it's peddling no touch knockouts I'm going to give it a pass pretty much no matter how special it looks in some other way. If it's a boxing gym that looks like it's focused on producing pro fighters I may be interested but I'm also going to have a lot of reservations about whether they will want to work with me at my age or just take my money and tell me to go jump rope. Even using all of these filters and excluding the pro boxing gyms I've got more than 20 schools to consider within a reasonable driving distance and that was more or less true in the previous 2 cities that I lived in.

If someone is running a school that's focused on kids classes but they'd like to have a serious adults martial arts program I think they need to call it out on their web site and in their advertising so that people who are looking for a serious martial arts program don't just filter them out with the rest of the noise. The majority of karate and TKD schools near me don't do much of anything to make themselves look like anything other than after school daycare and the exceptions, and there are exceptions, are the places I'm going to look at first. Since so few places do a good job of this I think it's an important question to ask the OP how he represents his school in his marketing. I also agree that some of my own personal frustrations probably made my post sound pretty negative and that wasn't helpful.

Cheers!

 

[Buka]

Buka, I sincerely love your positive attitude and the joy you have for martial arts. I hear what you're saying here and re-reading my post I think it could come off as negative and could be offensive to school owners who want to teach quality martial arts to adults as well as kids and are doing what they can to keep afloat and I'm not trying to do that. As the owner of a small strength training gym I understand that it's hard to keep something like a martial arts school going.

I also know that your average MA instructor doesn't have the skills nor money to create a great website nor write quality ad copy and that they're frequently using the same template that some company must be selling because I've seen it or ones that are very similar in at least 3 different states for dozens of different schools and a number of different arts. If they hire some web dev company and can only afford their lowest end services or pay for a generic site and fill out a couple of forms and upload a couple of pictures they aren't going to be able to differentiate themselves from all the other schools doing the same thing. I know that almost no one teaching MA is going to be able to do top notch SEO and frequently not even adequate SEO - by accident I just found a website for a local Shorin Ryu school that looks pretty good and there is absolutely no way to find it just by searching for Shorin Ryu or Okinawan Karate or martial arts school unless maybe you're willing to go 30+ pages deep in search results. I get that dismissing a school on these grounds isn't maybe fair and that I'm almost certainly missing schools where I'd enjoy training.

All that being said, the frustration your hear in my post comes from more than one past experience where I've gone and watched classes at a school and it's been obvious that the extent of their adult program is a few parents wanting to be involved with their kids and get in shape without any real interest in martial arts. I'm not being facetious when I say that I think it's great that parents want to be involved with their kids lives enough to go do martial arts with them and I think it's equally great that they're doing something to improve their fitness. As someone who doesn't have kids and generally has different ideas about fitness and who would rather be doing martial arts than golfing or watching TV I just don't feel like I'd fit in with that crowd.

If I were living in a smaller town where there were less than 20 martial arts schools to choose from I'm probably go look at them all. As it is there are over 20 BJJ schools alone within a 30 minute drive of my house and a Google maps search shows a similar number of schools that pop up with the search term "karate", though it doesn't look like those are all actually specifically karate schools. That's not counting the Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Aikido, Judo, Muay Thai, FMA, Wu Shu, Capoeira, boxing, fencing, etc. schools in the area. I've got to filter in some fashion because I'm not going to have time to look at 100+ schools and I know it's very likely I'll find a great place in fewer than 20 schools.

If a web site doesn't tell me anything about the instructor or the art they're teaching I'm probably going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If a web site looks like it's targeted at the fitness crowd I'm going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If a web site looks like it's targeted at kids classes I'm going to give it a pass unless it looks special in some other way. If it looks like it's peddling no touch knockouts I'm going to give it a pass pretty much no matter how special it looks in some other way. If it's a boxing gym that looks like it's focused on producing pro fighters I may be interested but I'm also going to have a lot of reservations about whether they will want to work with me at my age or just take my money and tell me to go jump rope. Even using all of these filters and excluding the pro boxing gyms I've got more than 20 schools to consider within a reasonable driving distance and that was more or less true in the previous 2 cities that I lived in.

If someone is running a school that's focused on kids classes but they'd like to have a serious adults martial arts program I think they need to call it out on their web site and in their advertising so that people who are looking for a serious martial arts program don't just filter them out with the rest of the noise. The majority of karate and TKD schools near me don't do much of anything to make themselves look like anything other than after school daycare and the exceptions, and there are exceptions, are the places I'm going to look at first. Since so few places do a good job of this I think it's an important question to ask the OP how he represents his school in his marketing. I also agree that some of my own personal frustrations probably made my post sound pretty negative and that wasn't helpful.

Cheers!

Wow. And that "wow" is meant as a sincere and heart felt compliment.

It didn't come off as negative to me. I feel the same frustrations that you do, bro, especially these days. If I was running a dojo now, especially a commercial one, I'd either have to hire a really good web page guy to get my point and thoughts across on my dojo - or get one of the young students in the school to do it.

I'm on the internet a lot, reading up on my sports teams, gabbing with my buddies, and talking with all the crazy people like us here on our forum.

But I don't know caca from tunafish when it comes to making a Web page. And I suppose that's a must these days for a commercial dojo.

Like you, I don't have kids, either. When I was seven or eight years old, I told my parents I wasn't going to have kids. They told me I'd probably change my mind, but I never did. I have plenty of nieces and nephews, and that's just fine with me. I've taught a ton of kids, and then taught some of their kids, and taught a few of their grandkids as well.

Years ago a dad and his two boys, ages 12 and 14, joined our dojo. His boys, nice kids, lasted three or four years, but pops lasted forever. And training came difficult for him. But he loved it.

I think it's wonderful you have so many dojos within a reasonable travel distance to you. And makes me realize how time consuming it would be to spend a couple of nights watching in each one of them. Also makes me realize how important each one of them having a good Web page is.

Let me know how your search for a dojo goes. I'd like to hear how it all shakes out.

And like I said at the open of this message. Wow.


Rock on, brother.

 

[Anarax]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

People train for different reasons and the instructor establishes the training culture for the class. Training cultures vary in focus and energy/vibes. For example, my Kali class keeps things loose and informal, but my kickboxing class is very strict and regimented. I don't believe either one is wrong, but they both provide a different flavor of training. It sounds that you want a more serious training culture than what you have. You could speak to the students about some of the issues you've seen and implement the standards you want your class to rise to. Just be aware your class size might decrease when you implement higher standards.

 

[isshinryuronin]

the instructor establishes the training culture for the class.

How true. But if you take out the word "training," it becomes even more true. (I going to take this thread off in a different direction here and talk about the bigger picture. Forgive my ruminations.)

Whether the training is formal or informal, severe or less so, isn't the bottom line. It's the culture of mutual respect, knowing the instructor is interested in you and having the goal of bringing out the best in you. The instructor sets the stage of just what the school means to the students. Is it simply a place to work out like Planet Fitness, or a place to learn how to fight like the corner boxing gym - or is it more?

Is it a place to leave everything outside the doors and be a part of something transformational, a place to challenge yourself of many levels? MA leads one to introspection as to who they are and what they can be. Knowing that when they walk (limp) out of class, they are a little bit better for it. They've faced a fear, withstood some pain, became stronger and more confident, learned to see and think differently, developed discipline and learned respect. The overall culture established by the best instructors provide the physical and emotional environment for these things to happen and the students to gradually mold themselves.

We all like to feel good about ourselves, not in the self-delusional way, but in a demonstrable way as described above. The teacher need not be a psychologist or social engineer, or even highly charismatic to encourage such development. Loyal, obligated to and interested in his students, a strong confident, yet humble demeanor, competent in the art, and working to help them advance themselves. Students are perceptive of such things and will not want to let their instructor down. These things, and the art itself, will provide a strong dojo culture and make it into a place the students want to be a part of. Students aren't just revenue, they're assets.

People may join a dojo for many reasons, but the most valuable thing they receive may be something they did not go there to find.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally?

When I was in high school, my CMA class started with almost 100 students (from my year). At the end of that year, there were about 50 left. After 3 years, there were about 20 left.

The MA drop off rate was high when I was young too. That was about 60 years ago.

 

[Anarax]

How true. But if you take out the word "training," it becomes even more true. (I going to take this thread off in a different direction here and talk about the bigger picture. Forgive my ruminations.)

Whether the training is formal or informal, severe or less so, isn't the bottom line. It's the culture of mutual respect, knowing the instructor is interested in you and having the goal of bringing out the best in you. The instructor sets the stage of just what the school means to the students. Is it simply a place to work out like Planet Fitness, or a place to learn how to fight like the corner boxing gym - or is it more?

Is it a place to leave everything outside the doors and be a part of something transformational, a place to challenge yourself of many levels? MA leads one to introspection as to who they are and what they can be. Knowing that when they walk (limp) out of class, they are a little bit better for it. They've faced a fear, withstood some pain, became stronger and more confident, learned to see and think differently, developed discipline and learned respect. The overall culture established by the best instructors provide the physical and emotional environment for these things to happen and the students to gradually mold themselves.

We all like to feel good about ourselves, not in the self-delusional way, but in a demonstrable way as described above. The teacher need not be a psychologist or social engineer, or even highly charismatic to encourage such development. Loyal, obligated to and interested in his students, a strong confident, yet humble demeanor, competent in the art, and working to help them advance themselves. Students are perceptive of such things and will not want to let their instructor down. These things, and the art itself, will provide a strong dojo culture and make it into a place the students want to be a part of. Students aren't just revenue, they're assets.

People may join a dojo for many reasons, but the most valuable thing they receive may be something they did not go there to find.

I agree that a culture of mutual respect is neccessary for productive training. We covered this in another thread of the breakdown of the percent of responsiblity between student and instructor.

I've experienced several instructors that showed little or no respect towards their students. Instructors not showing up multiple times to practice without communicating it to the students to slapping their students in the face. Mutual respect and investing in your students development is vital.

However, there are students that show very little to no interest in training even when the instructor is making it engaging. I'm a proponent of most people can learn mostly anything, but there are still limitations. There are various reasons, outside of ineffective instructors, that students don't apply themselves in training. When I taught I made training engaging and encouraged my students. However, I had several students that wouldn't listen and were disinterested in applying themselves. Most instructors have limited time and personally I want to use my time as effectively as possible. It goes back to the training culture/culture the instructor sets. Knowing what that is or what you want that to be for your school will help set the standards you hold your students to.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I had several students that wouldn't listen and were disinterested in applying themselves. Most instructors have limited time and personally I want to use my time as effectively as possible.

It's disappointing to see a student squander the opportunity an instructor offers. We know what he's missing, but you can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn. And, as you say, our time in valuable.

You don't mention in your post whether these disinterested students are kids, who may have little choice in being in class (which I won't address here), or older students who are paying money to be there. If they're disinterested, why are they there, wasting their money? But if you own a dojo, money is definitely important to you. However, is keeping such a student worth it?

Dead weight is harmful. Apathy can spread. Tolerating it can show weakness in front of the other students, showing you are willing to lower your expectations and thus lower your own esteem as an instructor. Better for all to get rid of the disinterested and unmotivated. An instructor has an absolute right to decide with whom he will share his knowledge and experience.

If unwilling to directly dismiss these students, there are other ways to encourage them to leave. Perhaps some sparring may help. It's hard to be disinterested when someone is throwing kicks and punches at you or tossing you onto the mat. Such activity may help the student decide just how motivated he is.

The best way is to sit that student down, look him right in the eye, and just ask him, "Why the heck are you here?" This may be a question the student has not honestly and seriously asked himself. The answer may be revealing, not only to you, but the student as well. No matter the answer, the proper action to take will be clear.

 

[Blindside]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

I am not saying it has been easy but I keep a fairly consistent training group of about 10 people, currently my youngest student is 26, the average is probably 35. I don't force people to spar but we try not to make sparring a big deal, and it is just part of training, we seldom have people not spar.

What age group is your adult class? Is the training the kids receive in their class not preparing them for the adult class? Or is the intent of the adult class so different from the kids class that it doesn't meet their interests?

 

[C Sal]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

I do see sometimes, but it doesn't happen all the time. We have one particular student, she's in her 50s. She's kinda a bad apple. When she goes to class, we have to slow and dumb things down for her, even though she's been practising for more than 10 years. Like I said though, it doesn't happen all the time.

 

[Argus]

I think most comments are on point but I will be a little more blunt.
The instructor/ leader sets the pace and the culture of the group. Be it a karate school or in any business. If your group is not developing the desired culture look no further than the leader. While marketing is important its not the cause of poor culture. Incorrect marketing will cause a drop in sales due to a mis- match between what was advertised and what is actually presented.
I would guess there were a few first students and rather than setting the expectations and the culture of hard work the instructor gave in and let things be very laid back and soft, out of fear of losing those few students. This is very common. To set a serious culture you need to screen those first students for the ones that exhibit the desired work ethic and be willing to let all the others hit the pavement.
I would also add that when those serious students did show up, they saw the pace and lack of intensity and turned around and walked.

These are good points.

I've never run a school or business proper, but I have lead small practice groups and many online communities.
They've all been a mixture of emergent culture, as well as culture set by the people at the top. You'll learn a lot about yourself and the culture that your actions create or discourage, enable or disable, based on your actions or lack thereof.

Generally, I think the most serious martial artists will seek out instructors who also appear to be serious and make that approach, and their presence, known. I do a lot of research, and often rely on word of mouth as well to locate good instructors.

There are a lot of serious TMA guys out there, too. I find particularly good luck with people and groups involved in Chinese and Filipino Martial Arts, though I've certainly met serious Karate practitioners and the like. You might consider cross training in something along those lines to network with like minded martial artists, and get to know and train with them personally. Then, perhaps make and share videos of your serious, backyard training. That is the kind of thing that I like to find when I'm looking for a teacher.

My best teacher of all was a prominent FMA instructor who I trained with in his back yard. The training was intense, and I could only make it out there once a month or so, but it was exactly what I was looking for. I'd still be training with him if I had the time and money to travel to the U.S.

I think this is the sort of thing that serious martial artists and adults are looking for. Ranks, uniforms, none of that matters. Just get out there and find people to train with yourself, privately.

Go attend seminars, too. Seek out people who *you* want to train with and learn from, and you'll find like minded people. This is another thing that I look for: I like to learn from people who are, themselves, constantly learning and seeking out training themselves. If you want to add more value, import it locally! There are tons of people who want to train X system or with X instructor. If they can't, typically due to distance, but you can, that's another way you can create value.

 

[zenfrog]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

Yes, it seems most schools are MMA type gyms, or kids class oriented. It seems TMA are only sought after by a very small percentage of people. Unfortunately.

 

[Diagen]

Bury ripe and mature, create culture, ferment spirit. Build backyard or nighttime park ring. Be a good ref.

 

[dunc]

Reading this thread reminds me that some instructors have fixed views on how their students should develop
Unfortunately human beings are very individual and it's impossible to find a single approach that suits everyone
A really great instructor finds ways (or creates an environment) to help every student develop to be the best that they can be

 

[Diagen]

Reading this thread reminds me that some instructors have fixed views on how their students should develop
Unfortunately human beings are very individual and it's impossible to find a single approach that suits everyone
A really great instructor finds ways (or creates an environment) to help every student develop to be the best that they can be

This is hubris. People aren't very individual when you know the principles at play. Flesh is flesh so to speak. The task demands from the individual not the other way around. Know the principles and develop in different order with different intensities and frequencies depending on how 'initiated' one is and what their focus is at the time, but there is much the same to look at year in and year out, month in and month out, even hour in and hour out.
You seem to be lamenting poor instruction though which is understandable. Best to be a great instructor to oneself so you can learn from instructors as one yourself, until you recognize you're out of your class completely, in which case you have met a great instructor.
Ideally one can learn on their own of course.

 

[J. Pickard]

Reading this thread reminds me that some instructors have fixed views on how their students should develop
Unfortunately human beings are very individual and it's impossible to find a single approach that suits everyone
A really great instructor finds ways (or creates an environment) to help every student develop to be the best that they can be

For me, it's not how they develop but rather that they actually do develop and for that to happen the student has to put in effort to some level. I have literally had older teens and adults ask me how much it would cost them to "just get the next belt" without actually training. We don't even have regular testing fees and often don't even wear full uniform or belts during the summer so why they thought this was even an option is beyond me. I had 15 year old quit because I wouldn't give him the option to pay to fast track to a black belt in less than 6 months. I don't care if a person can kick high, or jump, or anything physical I just want students that put in a serious effort and are actually willing to try. Thats it, just honestly try their best. If you start off and can't even touch your knees when stretching but after 2 months you can then in my book that is progress and shows that the student was actually trying. Most of the students I currently have in our martial arts program are all serious students, they may not look the best, or be the best fighters but they all honestly try their hardest to improve, however most of them are under 16 or over 35. We have had many young adults come in just this year that try it for a few months then decide it's too hard and quit. We always give free trials to all new students so it's not like they don't know what they are signing up for.

 

[dunc]

Honestly, and I'm sorry if this offends as that's not my intention, I think you would benefit from asking yourself what you might do differently
In my direct experience there is no shortage of 16-35 year olds who want to push themselves and get better at martial arts. So if you feel that none of them are in your class, then perhaps the reason is closer to home

 

[Tez3]

I do see sometimes, but it doesn't happen all the time. We have one particular student, she's in her 50s. She's kinda a bad apple. When she goes to class, we have to slow and dumb things down for her, even though she's been practising for more than 10 years. Like I said though, it doesn't happen all the time.

What's wrong with slowing down for a student who doesn't get things as fast as others? Is your class only for fit young men aiming to be pro fighters?
Calling her a 'bad apple' is rude unless she's coming in dressed 'gangsta' style threatening to beat other students up.........

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I do see sometimes, but it doesn't happen all the time. We have one particular student, she's in her 50s. She's kinda a bad apple. When she goes to class, we have to slow and dumb things down for her, even though she's been practising for more than 10 years. Like I said though, it doesn't happen all the time.

I don't see how that describes "a bad apple". She's a slower-learning student than most. I've seen some of those folks go on to be more proficient than the fast learners (many of whom simply wouldn't stick with it once things got hard).

 

[dancingalone]

I don't see how that describes "a bad apple". She's a slower-learning student than most. I've seen some of those folks go on to be more proficient than the fast learners (many of whom simply wouldn't stick with it once things got hard).

I have a long time student that attends regularly for months at a time and then drops out for one reason or another. I understand this, life happens. The main problem is that he has bad retention of material yet he qualified for dan at one point. When he pops back up again, he's very disruptive to the other black belt students because he has forgotten much of the prequisite curriculum and we have to slow drills down for him or spend time catching him back up.

He is a good guy, but definitely is a drain. It is what it is, short of driving him off or having him work in the beginner/intermediate classes until he gets back to speed.