Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan

[OnlyAnEgg]

I prefer a lower stance, sort of a half horse stance. I have plenty of power in my legs and can rise in pretty fast.

Telegraphing movements seems a common enough thing in new students. I have to concentrate hard to keep from shifting my arm back before a strike especially. Relaxing through the shoulders has minimized some of this movement nicely.

 

[Kosokun]

Might just become a tradition!

If you've followed the history of how organizations form and break up, you'll find that it *is* the tradition.

Kidding aside, Gene's the real deal guys. He's been around the corner a bunch and like me, more times than not, the guys we've seen popping up as soke here in the states over the years are, well charlatans. Gene's a valuable resource for this board, and when you get to know him, he's got a great sense of humor. He plays a little rough, sometimes, but like the tough fighter in the dojo, you can learn a lot from him and improve because he pushes you.


Rob

 

[Navarre]

If your shoulder relaxation is in any way a result of my early suggestion to you, then I am glad to hear it helped. It has certainly always helped me a great deal.

I usually wasn't aware of how much tension I had in my shoulders until I focused on it. Sometimes even in a fight I will take a second (during the time between engagement) to sigh and relax. It always helps.

As for maintaining consistent shoulder height, it is indeed a common problem in beginners. I always advise my students to find a mirror (full length if available) and practice their forward movement. Watching yourself in the mirror can show you if you are telegraphing.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

If you've followed the history of how organizations form and break up, you'll find that it *is* the tradition.

Kidding aside, Gene's the real deal guys. He's been around the corner a bunch and like me, more times than not, the guys we've seen popping up as soke here in the states over the years are, well charlatans. Gene's a valuable resource for this board, and when you get to know him, he's got a great sense of humor. He plays a little rough, sometimes, but like the tough fighter in the dojo, you can learn a lot from him and improve because he pushes you.


Rob

Im sure that Gene is the "real deal", but his position as a teacher and valuable resource is invalidated by his lack of spirit in the quest for learning something new.
he tends to make remarks before he knows who are what it is he is talking about.
Being a great fighter in the dojo has nothing to do with interacting with your peers.
Its not hard for some people to be a jerk........why doesnt he impress us with his knowledge, not with a traditionalist ego that no one gives a crap about.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Gene's a valuable resource for this board, and when you get to know him, he's got a great sense of humor. He plays a little rough, sometimes, but like the tough fighter in the dojo, you can learn a lot from him and improve because he pushes you.


Rob

So sorry, Kosokun; but, sarcasm and derision as teaching tools is utterly dysfunctional. Moreover, this is not a dojo. It's a discussion board. Not the same at all.

respectfully,

egg

 

[Kosokun]

so .....let me get this straight.....if an okinawan guy runs off and starts his own style based on anothers teaching......thats A-OK in your book. but if a white guy does it, he doesnt know a god damned thing?

If someone is teaching something that's based on another's teaching, then it's that other person's style. It's not appropriate for the fellow, Asian or not, to call himself soke of this other person's style. It's misleading and downright fraudulent for him to say that it's a new style and call himself "Soke".

If someone creates somethng that's genuinely new, then perhaps that'd be a good candidate for Soke. Perhaps Takayuki Kubota might be exemplary of this.

Rob

 

[Navarre]

Kidding aside, Gene's the real deal guys. Rob

I've made no assumptions about his credibility. That seems to have been his approach, certainly not mine.

And I sensed no "kidding" in his remarks. Frequently ppl are quite happy to be as insulting as they please and then try to repackage it as "honesty". Some comments are respectful and some are not. It is quite clear where his statements fell.

I completely agree with you about charlatan sokes and such. From white belt all the way to grandmaster there are those who rely on nothing but hot air and a belt to try and promote themselves.

However, Mr. Madden is quite accomplished and recognized. Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan is a legitimate system.

If one prefers to believe it is not or wants to ramble on with a continuing thread where the semantics of the word "legitimate" is endlessly debated, they would probably be happier spending their time in the "Bible, Hell ..." thread where everyone gets the chance to add pointless rhetoric ad nauseum.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

If your shoulder relaxation is in any way a result of my early suggestion to you, then I am glad to hear it helped. It has certainly always helped me a great deal.

It was. Thank you.

As for maintaining consistent shoulder height, it is indeed a common problem in beginners. I always advise my students to find a mirror (full length if available) and practice their forward movement. Watching yourself in the mirror can show you if you are telegraphing.

I've been able to isolate errors with the vidcam I started using. It's been beneficial.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

If one prefers to believe it is not or wants to ramble on with a continuing thread where the semantics of the word "legitimate" is endlessly debated, they would probably be happier spending their time in the "Bible, Hell ..." thread where everyone gets the chance to add pointless rhetoric ad nauseum.

I agree. This thread was started simply to talk about training in Seieikan. It is not meant to be an 'Endless Debate' thread.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

If someone is teaching something that's based on another's teaching, then it's that other person's style. It's not appropriate for the fellow, Asian or not, to call himself soke of this other person's style. It's misleading and downright fraudulent for him to say that it's a new style and call himself "Soke".

If someone creates somethng that's genuinely new, then perhaps that'd be a good candidate for Soke. Perhaps Takayuki Kubota might be exemplary of this.

Rob

the whole soke issue has been gone over too times on martialtalk.
founding a system does not make one a soke.
this is way off topic though.

 

[Navarre]

I've been able to isolate errors with the vidcam I started using. It's been beneficial.

Yes, I haven't started using the vid cam to record students yet but had condisered the idea. It would make for excellent training tapes b/c the student could step back from themselves and see what is really going on.

It would also make for a wonderful video scrapbook for that student. I wish I had tapes of all my years of training. It would be interesting to watch myself learning Pinan Shodan.

 

[Kosokun]

However, Mr. Madden is quite accomplished and recognized. Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan is a legitimate system.

Just in case there may have been any misunderstandings, Mr. Madden is a friend of mine. He is indeed quite accomplished. I have a great deal of warmth and respect for him.

Rob

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i both love and hate to watch myself on video. even when someone has told me ive done a great job on the kata, i can only see the bad parts.
it is an excellent gauge of progress, although i would be frightened to see what i looked like when i first started.......i was told it was akin to watching a choo choo train roll down the track.

 

[Navarre]

Just in case there may have been any misunderstandings, Mr. Madden is a friend of mine. Rob

I didn't misunderstand or even disagree with you, Rob. I have no problem with anything you've said. In fact, quite the contrary. You have improved this thread greatly with your link contribution. Thank you.

But, yes, let's just move on and stay on topic. We've said what we need to say unless someone drops back in to fan the flames.

As for the video record, yeah, it would be embarrassing and funny to watch myself during some of the earlier tapes. But I'd mentioned that my sensei had shown us tapes of himself as a yellow belt. Although we all had a good laugh I also gained more respect for him.

He wasn't hiding behind rank or words but instead opening himself up to the same evaluation we all place ourselves under. I found it to be very decent and have approached my own classes the same way.

That, in my mind, is one of those legitimate aspects of which I spoke. I wonder how many classes make use of video cameras? Maybe someone should start a thread.

 

[Gene Williams]

Im sure that Gene is the "real deal", but his position as a teacher and valuable resource is invalidated by his lack of spirit in the quest for learning something new.
he tends to make remarks before he knows who are what it is he is talking about.
Being a great fighter in the dojo has nothing to do with interacting with your peers.
Its not hard for some people to be a jerk........why doesnt he impress us with his knowledge, not with a traditionalist ego that no one gives a crap about.

Being a great fighter in a dojo has nothing to do with being "the real deal." Speaking of real deal, I notice you list the World Head of Sokeship Council on the first page of your website. Now, just how am I supposed to take you seriously? I learn something new every time I train...doing the same kata and applications I've done for years. Suggesting that tradition and the orthodox ryu might possibly be a better place to look for the spirit of Okinawan karate than some wannabee's made up style (regardless of what a wonderful person the guy might be) is hardly a "traditionalist ego." The "quest for learning something new" is a little more than playing around with anyone's ideas of what karate is and mixing and matching kata in the backyard. But, just as long as you're having fun I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

your MO is crystal clear gene........its the second time you have mentioned the link to the MACS page.
it doesnt hurt my feelings in the least.
but the fact remains that you do not exhibit the qualities that make someone the real deal.
you seem to be more interested in showing people how negative and closed your mind is to the possibility that anything other than traditional is worth a crap.
i would wager that a good many people see your ego, even if you dont.
if being good means being a good jerk.....keep it up, sensei

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Being a great fighter in a dojo has nothing to do with being "the real deal." Speaking of real deal, I notice you list the World Head of Sokeship Council on the first page of your website. Now, just how am I supposed to take you seriously? I learn something new every time I train...doing the same kata and applications I've done for years. Suggesting that tradition and the orthodox ryu might possibly be a better place to look for the spirit of Okinawan karate than some wannabee's made up style (regardless of what a wonderful person the guy might be) is hardly a "traditionalist ego." The "quest for learning something new" is a little more than playing around with anyone's ideas of what karate is and mixing and matching kata in the backyard. But, just as long as you're having fun I guess it doesn't matter.

gene, i think its great you learn something new everytime you practice kata.......it tells me that you dont yet think you know it all.

playing around with ideas is the first step to discovery......you do it everytime you practice a kata or bunkai, but i still dont see how making up something new is so dreadfully awful?

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I think there are better areas of the forum to discuss these particular topics. Maybe this should be spun off into a new thread?

 

[Flatlander]

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[Navarre]

Thank you, Dan.

Respectfully,