What really is Ninjutsu all about?

[KageMusha]

Dont get me wrong. I am not decideing on training with him. I dont even live in the same state. I am just curious how he teaches it so his students still get the right idea.

I am also not saying I believe his way is right or wrong, I was just makeing a point. Mr. Hayes tried to import new ideas to his way of doing things, it turned into ToShinDo. I know next to nothing about ToShinDo except that most (not all) of the Bujinkan people on this forum don't agree with it. Robert Bussey added sparring and Tae Kwon Do styled kicking to his system, and he has been borderline crucified.

I am wondering what did they do differantly that made them and their students get the "wrong" idea about Taijutsu. And what is the Dayton dojo doing "right"?

Notice I put right and wrong in " ". That is my way of saying that I don't know enough about either to say they are right or wrong. I am just basing it on the general opinion of the Bujinkan.

Also, this has kind of turned into a new subject seperate from the original question. I am putting in a vote for an admin, starting with my first post, to make this into a new threed. I didn't mean to change the subject. I was honesly expecting a quick answer as to how they do it.

 

[bencole]

I am just curious how he teaches it so his students still get the right idea.

Any attempt to explain why some movement is "right" and some is "wrong" is difficult. Just visit the dojo if you are interested.

I am also not saying I believe his way is right or wrong, I was just makeing a point. Mr. Hayes tried to import new ideas to his way of doing things, it turned into ToShinDo. I know next to nothing about ToShinDo except that most (not all) of the Bujinkan people on this forum don't agree with it. Robert Bussey added sparring and Tae Kwon Do styled kicking to his system, and he has been borderline crucified.

Bussey just took the techniques (not the spirit of the techniques) and mixed them with his own stuff. I don't think anyone really cares anymore about Bussey, so I don't know why you think he's being "crucified." He's a long-time gone from anything in the Bujinkan, and people's dismissing his activity started as soon as it became evident that he wasn't doing anything resembling what Soke was doing back in the 1980s.

Hayes didn't just "import new ideas"; he outright lied about the origins of those ideas. He said that he learned things from Hatsumi-sensei that he got from other places. He also took "artistic license" with some facts about his own training, which came back to haunt him once people started investigating his claims.

The thread really isn't about either of these men though.

It was about a search for a dojo. I recommended a dojo.

Don thought that they might be "adding things" and you picked up on that point in making your comparison to Bussey and Hayes.

All of the "competition" stuff that Alan is teaching is based on material within the Ryuha of the Bujinkan. The "NOTE" on the page even says this:

"Note: The Bujinkan's Takagi Yoshin Ryu & Shinden Fudo Ryu, along with other aspects of the Bujinkan Ryuha, have multiple kata that start or take place at the ground level. Many of the kata in the Bujinkan focus on balance-control (kuzushi), with emphasis on taking balance and controlling opponents who offer different levels of force, skill, and resistance. The Dayton Bujinkan Dojo's groundfighting and sparring program uses the principles of the Bujinkan to understand proper methods of timing, distance, and angling on the ground and standing. Students who chose to participate in these classes should expect heavy aerobic workouts during class. Please speak with Alan about training in this program or contact the dojo with any questions."

Feel free to contact them if you have any questions. I've made my recommendation for someone looking for quality instruction in the Columbus/Dayton area.

-ben

 

[Cryozombie]

I was honesly expecting a quick answer as to how they do it.

You've been training long enough to know better.

Now what was that about the Godai?

 

[saru1968]

Now what was that about the Godai?

:lol:

 

[sasori00]

For the record, do you know these people and are you endorsing them?

In the end, it is usually best to find people that other people know and trust. -ben

I will vouch for the people at Central Ohio Bujinkan Dojo. While I do not study ninjutsu with them, I have had the pleasure of training with Tim Halbakken several times. He has trained with Dr. Hatsumi and he knows his stuff. He is also an officer and SWAT team member with Columbus PD. Alot of the SWAT team trains at his Dojo.

Unfortuately I don't know anything about the other schools in the area.

Good luck in your training!!

 

[Bigshadow]

While I do not study ninjutsu with them, I have had the pleasure of training with Tim Halbakken several times. He has trained with Dr. Hatsumi and he knows his stuff.

First I want to say I know nothing about the instructor... But I believe that the new person should ask you or anyone else endorsing an instructor... Do you seriously train in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu or are you on the outside looking in?

No offense intended to anyone, but that is what I would ask either outright or by observation before relying on an endorsement from anyone.