KIAI's - THEIR PLACE IN KATA

[Buka]

I believe that any of the founders of any of the styles, especially if they had been warriors, if presented with a more effective way of doing some part of their system, they would test it and change that part. I really can't fathom why they would not. I'll also bet that's exactly what they did when putting their system together.

As for Kiai, each to his own. I'll use it any way the mood strikes me.

 

[Flying Crane]

My opinion is that nobody of any system understands it exactly like his/her instructor did. So all of us practice according to the best of our understanding, which may change over the years. And yet people teach during this time, while their own understanding and approach was changing.

One of my instructors would talk about different people within a system, people who had studied under the same teacher, and yet their rendition and practice of the system was markedly different from each other. This was because each person had studied under the same teacher, but during a different era. One studied when the teacher was younger, the other studied when the teacher was older. So what they did, and what they then passed along to their own students, was different.

I believe that any system changes somewhat with every person who learns it, even with the strongest desires to keep it exactly the same. Welcome to being human. We are not carbon copies of our instructors, even if we try to be. Many people never teach, so their “changes” never get passed along, and die with the individual. Those that do teach, if their “changes” prove to have merit, then they get passed along to the next generation.

We practice. We get better. Our understanding improves. We change how we practice. Some of us teach. How we teach changes.

I believe it is impossible for it to be otherwise.

My Sifu is the best example that I have, and I do my best to internalize and understand the lessons he gives me. But I’ve given up on trying to be exactly like him, or striving for “perfect” or “complete” understanding. I don’t believe they exist. I just practice to the best of my understanding and I put it to work for me.

 

[_Simon_]

Okay, but what does that mean? Well, it basically means that a ki-ai is the action, or concept of acting in total concert with yourself. It's the body and intention all working together; your arms, legs, core, breath, mind, intent, and so on. But you might notice that I haven't said anything about any sound or noise yet... and that's because it's not a part of the concept of ki-ai. It is used to express ki-ai, but it's not actually the ki-ai itself...

So what is the noise/shout, then? In Japanese terms, it's called the kakegoe (懸聲), which is literally a "suspended voice". From this, we can understand that the shout is not the ki-ai, although it can be part of the expression of a ki-ai, and that the presence of a shout (or noise) is not necessarily indicative of ki-ai.

Ah this was fascinating, never heard it expressed like that nor thought of it like that. Makes sense, awesome

 

[_Simon_]

I’ve told this story several times here, but it needs repeating. And it never gets old for me...

We had this group of students who were about 6 months in or so. They kept saying “kiai” every time they kiai’ed. My teacher explained the concept and made it clear they weren’t supposed to say kiai, but the were supposed to kiai. What do they do? They keep saying it. Over and over, even after being told repeatedly.

My teacher gets sick of it and has us line up like one of those big Mas Oyama workouts. Standing in place, drilling basic techniques like individual punches, blocks, et al. Kiai on every technique. They just couldn’t stop yelling kiai. We went a good 45 minutes straight. I loved every minute of it. They finally got it about a half hour into it.

Every now and then, me and another guy would try to get someone to yell kiai. No one had the balls to do it though. If he or I would’ve done it, he’d have seen right through it and I’m sure the sparring session with him wouldn’t have been good. He’s a great guy, but like all of us, he had his buttons. Yelling kiai was one of them.

Love it.

We had something similar in Kyokushin, when we were sparring at a big day seminar session or memorial training, the Branch Chief would hate hearing that "choo choo" or "chshh chshh" noise as we exhale on hitting someone. Said this is Kyokushin not boxing, we should be kiaiing!

And that if he heard one more "choo" it's 100 pushups. The noise in the room changed dramatically as we started sparring again XD