Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[jobo]

It probably just means that the Porsche didn't know there was a race going on.

when their doing 120 three foot behind you, they they generaly know there's a race on

 

[veritasAequitas]

when their doing 120 three foot behind you, they they generaly know there's a race on

120 ******** that's an instant ban

 

[pdg]

120 ******** that's an instant ban

Only if you get caught.

And, not always an instant ban - I know a few people who have been caught doing that and more and not lost their licence.

 

[drop bear]

If bJj,was based on good science ever bJj,match would be a draw

Really?
How would you rationalise that?

 

[drop bear]

All cars Arnt, the same, all bjj, should be, so yes if Mechanical science was the defining factor all races between identical cars should be a draw

There is a motorcycle guide called this of the wrist. Which explains the science is not just in the mechanics of the vehicle but also the actions of the rider.
Twist of the Wrist - Interactive Vol. 1

Machines don't just do whatever they want. Bodies don't just do whatever they want. Individuals who excel are not really the product of random magic. As much as people who don't excel like to believe that is the case.

In any activity be it car racing or BJJ or self defence there are methods of training that consistently improve the individuals performance.

In BJJ you can see this by trends. So if one person wins 90% of his matches. He may be individually gifted. If his method increases other individuals winning rates above 50% or probably more accurately above their own base line then the method has a scientific evidence behind it.

So in layman's terms when 10th planet walks in and takes all the medals. They probably have the better method.

 

[drop bear]

Hang on youVe swerved this into no touch system, that's not at all included in my rational, bjj, V dl,is the discusion

In it wasn't a clatter th old ford, though I have Annoyed the heLl out of nearly new 2l bmw by blowing then off, in a veryClattery,old ford, iMnot up to racing porches in a ten year old focus, as good as I am, it was a Xr 4x4, That though mature wasn't at all clattery,that I used to see porches off in, the only thing that ever got away from me On a bendy road,was a Also mature,Audi quatro

Untested is untested. No touch is the same rational as compliant drilling.

If I pretend poke you in the eye and that wins me the scenario. That is exactly the same method as if I shot you with my hardooken from a foot away.

 

[jobo]

Really?
How would you rationalise that?

Because science always works, or its not science, and bJj,is not baSed on science, at least not a reasonable definition of science

 

[jobo]

There is a motorcycle guide called this of the wrist. Which explains the science is not just in the mechanics of the vehicle but also the actions of the rider.
Twist of the Wrist - Interactive Vol. 1

Machines don't just do whatever they want. Bodies don't just do whatever they want. Individuals who excel are not really the product of random magic. As much as people who don't excel like to believe that is the case.

In any activity be it car racing or BJJ or self defence there are methods of training that consistently improve the individuals performance.

In BJJ you can see this by trends. So if one person wins 90% of his matches. He may be individually gifted. If his method increases other individuals winning rates above 50% or probably more accurately above their own base line then the method has a scientific evidence behind it.

So in layman's terms when 10th planet walks in and takes all the medals. They probably have the better method.

Ok give me an example of a training methods that gives CONSISTANT improvement, human beings are incapable of CONSISTANT improvement, if they improve at all then any improvMent will be inconsistent,

Second if you only measure the effectiveness of bjj, against bjj, then you have installed a positive feedback loop, that has no relation to self defence, which is out topic,any trends you see can't just be applied to the real world, as meaning anything at all.

If you try to draw data from say mma, then the fighter has used other skills that are not native to bjj, at which point , what they are doing only contains bjj, it is NOT bjj,so the data means nothing in this context.

If your claiming bjj, is hard on science, then let's see some scientific experiments and the resultant data, just claiming their are trends, is not science

 

[jobo]

Untested is untested. No touch is the same rational as compliant drilling.

If I pretend poke you in the eye and that wins me the scenario. That is exactly the same method as if I shot you with my hardooken from a foot away.

No,,,,, kicking at football at an imaginary goal is reasonable practise, kicking an imaginary football at an imaginary goal is not

 

[veritasAequitas]

No,,,,, kicking at football at an imaginary goal is reasonable practise, kicking an imaginary football at an imaginary goal is not

If "kicking the football" is an eye gouge and scoring a field goal is success you're not even kicking the ball you're miming kicking it

 

[drop bear]

No,,,,, kicking at football at an imaginary goal is reasonable practise, kicking an imaginary football at an imaginary goal is not

The goal isn't fighting back.

 

[drop bear]

Ok give me an example of a training methods that gives CONSISTANT improvement, human beings are incapable of CONSISTANT improvement, if they improve at all then any improvMent will be inconsistent,

Second if you only measure the effectiveness of bjj, against bjj, then you have installed a positive feedback loop, that has no relation to self defence, which is out topic,any trends you see can't just be applied to the real world, as meaning anything at all.

If you try to draw data from say mma, then the fighter has used other skills that are not native to bjj, at which point , what they are doing only contains bjj, it is NOT bjj,so the data means nothing in this context.

If your claiming bjj, is hard on science, then let's see some scientific experiments and the resultant data, just claiming their are trends, is not science

So you don't think that if someone starts running when they haven't before they will show improvement in fitness? And that will be consistent.

The consensual violence vs non consensual argument that you are working on mostly just doesn't work. It hinges on if you can't base your method on self defence you are better off basing your method on nothing.

And as a practical training system it collapses. Dry land swimming basically.

Uses scientific method.

Scientific method - Wikipedia

 

[jobo]

So you don't think that if someone starts running when they haven't before they will show improvement in fitness? And that will be consistent.

The consensual violence vs non consensual argument that you are working on mostly just doesn't work. It hinges on if you can't base your method on self defence you are better off basing your method on nothing.

And as a practical training system it collapses. Dry land swimming basically.

Uses scientific method.

Scientific method - Wikipedia

I know what the scientific method is, I'm asking YOU to back up the claim that bjj, is scientific, by showing that it has been subject to the scientific method,For self defence, you know actual data,

 

[jobo]

So you don't think that if someone starts running when they haven't before they will show improvement in fitness? And that will be consistent.

The consensual violence vs non consensual argument that you are working on mostly just doesn't work. It hinges on if you can't base your method on self defence you are better off basing your method on nothing.

And as a practical training system it collapses. Dry land swimming basically.

Uses scientific method.

Scientific method - Wikipedia

Well no, gains in fitness will be inconsistent,

 

[jobo]

If "kicking the football" is an eye gouge and scoring a field goal is success you're not even kicking the ball you're miming kicking it

Sorry I'm talking about actual football here, wHere you use your feet

 

[jobo]

The goal isn't fighting back.

Goals never fight back,Particularly not imaginary ones, practising hiTingg the same spot on day a wall, is good practise, even though the goal is imaginary

 

[veritasAequitas]

Goals never fight back,Particularly not imaginary ones, practising hiTingg the same spot on day a wall, is good practise, even though the goal is imaginary

But its not because your training isn't alive

 

[veritasAequitas]

Fine scientific method
Question
How do I get a person off my chest who has mounted me?

Research

We can see that the natural response to this is to turtle up

Hypothesis

If I use a white belt bridge, arm trap and roll I can get the person off me easier than if i had no training.

Experiment

I will have a friend mount me 20 times and attempt the bjj escapes.

As a control I will try to escape 20 times using no bjj at all.

 

[jobo]

Fine scientific method
Question
How do I get a person off my chest who has mounted me?

Research

We can see that the natural response to this is to turtle up

Hypothesis

If I use a white belt bridge, arm trap and roll I can get the person off me easier than if i had no training.

Experiment

I will have a friend mount me 20 times and attempt the bjj escapes.

As a control I will try to escape 20 times using no bjj at all.

How's this deal with self defence,? You would need to be defending yourself from an attacker with a knife, let's see how well you escape works when he is repeatedly stabbing you.

Or test, three of his friends kick you repratedly, whilst you try to escape,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Scenario training.

I don't agree with the idea of scenario training, its develops a very fixed response to what is a dynamic situation, person does X I do Y and Z happens. This doesn't prepare you for when you do Y and Z doesn't happen.

To me, that's not scenario training. That's application training (and, further, what I refer to as "structured applications"). Yes, there's a scenario, but it's too controlled to be considered "scenario training" IMO. It's not training for the scenario, but training a specific use of a specific technique. Fixed responses are where most fighting skills start (the first time you learn a single-leg, you learn to use it against a specific position/attack from your partner). Building out from those fixed responses is what free-flow drills, sparring, scenario training, etc. should be about.