Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[Jaeimseu]

Does being smashed over the head with a bar stool not magically work on you if your a bjj, white belt ?

Are we playing the “what if” game now?


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[Jaeimseu]

No pain compliance is why there is both pain and compliance,

It’s already been said that people don’t tap because of pain (outside of total beginners). People tap in training/competition to avoid serious injuries.


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[pdg]

It’s already been said that people don’t tap because of pain (outside of total beginners). People tap in training/competition to avoid serious injuries.

I have toothache, it's horrible and painful.

I'll happily tap out to stop it hurting...

 

[pdg]

I've been somewhat distracted, but I'm going to revisit:

So you are assuming it's made your self defence capabilities better, ok maybe that a reasonable assumption, but a person who takes up nearly any sport, could reasonably make the same assumption, because of fitness, improveD reaction time, better ballance etc, so your no more certain than someone who plays ping,Pong of your increased ability ?

It's not an assumption that I'm making at all.

During sparring, I get hit less now and I get more hits out myself - compared to when I started. That's pretty much irrefutable.

While I don't consider the fighting part to be the be all and end all of SD, if it came to that now I believe I stand a better chance than before I started.

Someone who plays table tennis might actually have faster reactions than me, so by your logic they would fare even better - but reaction time is only a part of it, it's how you react that's more important. Would they know how to use their quick reactions to slip a punch, or catch a kick, or deliver anything themselves? They could be table tennis world champion but if they've never been punched will they fight, flight or freeze?

This is where the testing comes into play - I know I can get hit without falling apart psychologically, I know I'm prepared to hit someone else. It doesn't really matter if I've tested it in an actual self defence situation because it'll pretty reliably translate.

 

[veritasAequitas]

So your just bITTeR as you couldNt understand it

No I understand it, its just flawed in its methods.

Watch the balistic(sic) defense video I linked

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Tell me how you'd apply that against a resisting partner that isn't arm hanging or that stop's hitting you.

There is no power in that hammer fist at all, even in the rip off spear gear they use you can see he's compliant.

Second using hammer fists excessively is stupid, they are easy to block and put huge amounts of stress on your unsupported proximal phalanx.

 

[jobo]

No I understand it, its just flawed in its methods.

Watch the balistic(sic) defense video I linked

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Tell me how you'd apply that against a resisting partner that isn't arm hanging or that stop's hitting you.

There is no power in that hammer fist at all, even in the rip off spear gear they use you can see he's compliant.

Second using hammer fists excessively is stupid, they are easy to block and put huge amounts of stress on your unsupported proximal phalanx.

I'm a great fan of elbow fighting, that I know works very well, particularly up close, the upward fist has power, perhaps not as much as other punches, and that in isolation won't cause a great deal of damage, but in combination with a lot of other blows, it has its place

 

[jobo]

I've been somewhat distracted, but I'm going to revisit:



It's not an assumption that I'm making at all.

During sparring, I get hit less now and I get more hits out myself - compared to when I started. That's pretty much irrefutable.

While I don't consider the fighting part to be the be all and end all of SD, if it came to that now I believe I stand a better chance than before I started.

Someone who plays table tennis might actually have faster reactions than me, so by your logic they would fare even better - but reaction time is only a part of it, it's how you react that's more important. Would they know how to use their quick reactions to slip a punch, or catch a kick, or deliver anything themselves? They could be table tennis world champion but if they've never been punched will they fight, flight or freeze?

This is where the testing comes into play - I know I can get hit without falling apart psychologically, I know I'm prepared to hit someone else. It doesn't really matter if I've tested it in an actual self defence situation because it'll pretty reliably translate.

So it is an assumption then, it may be a reasonable assumption, but you either have adequate evidence to come to a firm conclusion or you are making assumptions. And as you haven't actually tried it real life, it can only be an assumption.

I'm not saying a table tennis player would fare better than you, though they very well might, it requires exceptional fitness to play at even a moderate competitive level, rather he or she could make exactly the same assumption that their self defence skills had improved, and be just as right or wrong as you are

 

[jobo]

It’s already been said that people don’t tap because of pain (outside of total beginners). People tap in training/competition to avoid serious injuries.


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SO if their arms is already broken, then wouldn't tap, if someone was twisting their broken arm ?
You clearly think not, as that pain wouldn't matter to them

 

[veritasAequitas]

I'm a great fan of elbow fighting, that I know works very well, particularly up close, the upward fist has power, perhaps not as much as other punches, and that in isolation won't cause a great deal of damage, but in combination with a lot of other blows, it has its place

No it doesn't half the time when you enter with frame three the distance changes.

You are either to close for the hammer or too far away for the elbows.

But what about movement?

You have to move while loading and pro loading frames even split frames,this slows moving and reduces your visibility.

What is happening is called forcing, you force it to work because you HAVE to move between covers/frames when striking, this is called shape shifting in DL terms.

 

[jobo]

You are correct in that compliance with pain is the basis of what makes a pain compliance technique. You're incorrect in thinking (as you appear to) that anything that potentially involves pain is a pain compliance technique. A punch is not inherently a pain compliance technique, though it is possible for someone to comply simply because of the pain.

If you punch someone repeatedly, they will sooner or later become complient, our lovely police force, use head strikes to force compliance on people who are resisting having hand cuffs fitted, They are also fOnd of hitting people with batterns, in the same circumstances, so both pain compliance techniques.

Three of them picked me up and swUng me in to a wall head first, and this dDefinitely made me more compliment

 

[jobo]

No it doesn't half the time when you enter with frame three the distance changes.

You are either to close for the hammer or too far away for the elbows.

But what about movement?

You have to move while loading and pro loading frames even split frames,this slows moving and reduces your visibility.

What is happening is called forcing, you force it to work because you HAVE to move between covers/frames when striking, this is called shape shifting in DL terms.

A hammer fiSt from to close, may not carry as much powers as one from a more advantageous range, accepted, but to say it has no power is manifestLy and self evidently wrong

 

[jobo]

No, you are choosing to define a phrase by using the primary definitions of the component words. Language doesn't usually work that way.

Ok what are the secondary defintions, that change the meaning substantially?

 

[veritasAequitas]

A hammer fiSt from to close, may not carry as much powers as one from a more advantageous range, accepted, but to say it has no power is manifestLy and self evidently wrong

Its not a hammer fist in the traditional sense it's inverted, you are not generating power through your kinetic chain its all your arm.
You are unable to generate power compared to a comparable strike from the same angle. Do frame three and try it.


Why is he doing an awkward inverted hammer? Because he's forced to.

 

[jobo]

Its not a hammer fist in the traditional sense it's inverted, you are not generating power through your kinetic chain its all your arm.
You are unable to generate power compared to a comparable strike from the same angle. Do frame three and try it.


Why is he doing an awkward inverted hammer? Because he's forced to.

Does that hammer fist carry power? You said no power, it clearly has power, certainly enough to hurt someone, you can generate significant power with just your arm

 

[veritasAequitas]

Does that hammer fist carry power? You said no power, it clearly has power, certainly enough to hurt someone, you can generate significant power with just your arm

No power relative to a technique that uses the same line and your kinetic chain.


Why don't you see muay Thai fighter's doing this?

 

[veritasAequitas]

Does that hammer fist carry power? You said no power, it clearly has power, certainly enough to hurt someone, you can generate significant power with just your arm

Would you rather me upper cut you or do that hammer fist?

 

[jobo]

No power relative to a technique that uses the same line and your kinetic chain.


Why don't you see muay Thai fighter's doing this?

So it has power then and your previous statement it had no power was in error

 

[veritasAequitas]

So it has power then and your previous statement it had no power was in error

Relatively yes. Now answer the question, why do it?

 

[jobo]

Would you rather me upper cut you or do that hammer fist?

That's not really a reasonable question, you have to throw from the position your arm is in after the previous stike, which in the case was an elbow, then it's a time thing, reposition your arm for an upper cut, or throw the hammer, I've broken people noses, with a similar stike, so it more than effective, but no you probably won't knock them out, but if they are still standing after good elbow strikes your in trouble anyway

 

[veritasAequitas]

That's not really a reasonable question, you have to throw from the position your arm is in after the previous stike, which in the case was an elbow, then it's a time thing, reposition your arm for an upper cut, or throw the hammer, I've broken people noses, with a similar stike, so it more than effective, but no you probably won't knock them out, but if they are still standing after good elbow strikes your in trouble anyway

Thus my point about forcing, framing like defense does forces you to use less effective techniques.
There isn't at elbow strike to the head till the third beat.
How do you break a nose like that? The strike is under the jaw.

How is this better than muay Thai cover,elbow to face?

Instead of frame 3, upper hammer, frame2 elbow to body, to an ascending elbow.

Do you not see all the point's of failure?