Kenyan Taekwondo In Brief

[Gorilla]

I appreciate you apologies although, in the context of my experience of someone else's behaviour (Mr Han) I think your apologies somewhat irrelevant. If you are not aware of Mr Hans behaviour in the UK then perhaps you should do some research so that you are fully aware of exactly who you talking about and potentially defending. As a journalist it should be easy for you to do. I suggest you start with Slough Taekwondo Club circa 1990 - 1993. I don't know about Kenyan TKD and to be frank I don't want to know. However, as there appears to be a split within Kenyan TKD, concerning Mr Han and Grandmaster Mogg, then I think it fair to conclude that Mr Han played an influential role in kenyan TKD (political or otherwise) that was not necessarily beneficial to Kenyan TKD.

:CTF: Trolling?

 

[Qiven]

You don't know anything about Kenyan taekwondo and don't want to know, yet you are posting and making comments in a thread titled "Kenyan Taekwondo In Brief." And, you are who exactly? That's relevant because the person you publicly allege you witnessed "lying, manupulating, decieving various individuals," deserves to know and challenge his accuser. There is an unwritten tradition on this board, to identify oneself, when seeking to be taken seriously, especially in matters where one makes slanderous and unsupported allegations about another, as you have made.

My advice to you is be very careful who you associate with because you may find yourself defending someone who does not deserve it. Do not give credit to anyone who does not deserve it. Don't be blinded by the fakeness of grandiose titles, paper certificates and ego-inflated individuals who are very skilled in manipulating people for their own ends. Most of all make sure you know who your friends are and who they are not.

 

[Qiven]

You don't know anything about Kenyan taekwondo and don't want to know, yet you are posting and making comments in a thread titled "Kenyan Taekwondo In Brief." And, you are who exactly? That's relevant because the person you publicly allege you witnessed "lying, manupulating, decieving various individuals," deserves to know and challenge his accuser. There is an unwritten tradition on this board, to identify oneself, when seeking to be taken seriously, especially in matters where one makes slanderous and unsupported allegations about another, as you have made.

For 'slanderous and unsupported allegations' you should talk to Mr Han. He's a master of it - perhaps that's why he's called Mr. :rpo:

 

[Archtkd]

My advice to you is be very careful who you associate with because you may find yourself defending someone who does not deserve it. Do not give credit to anyone who does not deserve it. Don't be blinded by the fakeness of grandiose titles, paper certificates and ego-inflated individuals who are very skilled in manipulating people for their own ends. Most of all make sure you know who your friends are and who they are not.

The viceroy speaketh to the ignorant natives in the far flung protectorates and colonies. Dude, be serious!

 

[granfire]

You don't know anything about Kenyan taekwondo and don't want to know, yet you are posting and making comments in a thread titled "Kenyan Taekwondo In Brief." And, you are who exactly? That's relevant because the person you publicly allege you witnessed "lying, manupulating, decieving various individuals," deserves to know and challenge his accuser. There is an unwritten tradition on this board, to identify oneself, when seeking to be taken seriously, especially in matters where one makes slanderous and unsupported allegations about another, as you have made.

Easy there....

He did not comment on the state of TKD in Kenya.
He talked about personal experience with one of the players. Big difference.

I would not know either from Adam's dog, but I do tend to take warnings like this to hard and conduct some of my own research.
Life would be more pleasant if more people spoke out with negative experience to avoid too much hero worship.
Evil thrives when good men remain silent.

Does this mean I do believe him that Master whatshisname is a bad apple? Not necessarily.
But I would look into things, checking references and form my own opinion.
If he is right, you only shot the messenger.

I converse with a lot of people on many different topics. and almost all of the time it's 'if I had known I would have stirred clear of X or Y.

And last but not least: He did sat the guy was an excellent practitioner.
That does not mean a thing for any other aspects of is persona, but there is that.

So the question I have for you is: Why does this upset you so much?

 

[Archtkd]

Easy there....

He did not comment on the state of TKD in Kenya. ....

I would not know either from Adam's dog, but I do tend to take warnings like this to hard and conduct some of my own research.
Life would be more pleasant if more people spoke out with negative experience to avoid too much hero worship.

So the question I have for you is: Why does this upset you so much?

Granfire, I'm not upset, but I'm am questioning the motives and intentions of an individual who cowers under the cover of anonymity to post what amounts to personal attacks on a person who can't respond to said attacks, in a thread focusing on Kenyan Taekwondo. I've never known you to call anyone a liar, manipulator, etc. while hiding your identity. I also don't recall you hijacking/ posting on a thread, with an arrogant tone that suggests you know more about the subject of the thread than the person who started it.


My postings on MT are usually well thought out, researched and sourced and if the moral character of Master Han was a serious issue that affected Kenya taekwondo you would have seen that in the brief history I authored. That said, if someone wants to start a separate thread exploring Master Han's work in the UK and his morals they can go ahead. In that regard, they should be willing to directly face questions from readers, moderators, Master Han and those who know him better than I do.


By the way, the fact that a taekwondo teacher or leader is accused of deceit, manipulating others and treachery is as old as the martial art itself. In fact I know of no leader who does not have detractors and critics. I think, what’s always interesting is the motive of the accuser, critic or enemy. I can't speak for Master Han, nor am I defending him, but as I wrote earlier, I am very curious about his accusers' aims, particularly in regards to this thread.

 

[Qiven]

The viceroy speaketh to the ignorant natives in the far flung protectorates and colonies. Dude, be serious!

Don't shoot the messenger - listen to the message! Mr Han is being given credit by some but my experience of him is that he is very far from credit worthy. As I said before look into the circumstances of his departure from the UK in 1993 for a different view (starting with Slough TKD club). As a journalist you should be well aware of the importance of a fair and balanced approach. It won't be hard for you to do as you've already said that the TKD world is a small one

 

[Archtkd]

Mr Han was not the GB team coach. I trained with Mr Han in the UK and although his technical ability was unquestionable, the same could not be said of other aspects of Mr Han. I witnessed him manipulating, deceiving, lying, cheating various individuals during his time in the UK. His honour, such as it is, is sadly lacking. He is a glory boy who abused the privilege of his seniority whenever he thought it necessary. Kenya is lucky he no longer participates in organisational taekwondo. No surprise to hear that Kenyan taekwondo became divided whilst he was involved in it. Mr Han is a trouble maker. He did nothing for British taekwondo during his stay in the UK. He is not someone to be trusted and is not someone who deserves respect. I look forward to reading any research on GB taekwondo where Mr Han is concerned - especially the reason for his departure in the 1990's.

Just out of curiosity I will look into whether Master Han's activities in the UK have any bearing on Kenyan Taekwondo development. I don't think they do because he was in Kenya in the 1980s. That's before he came to the U.K, where according to a press report I've read, and other sources, he was team coach of the British Taekwondo Control Board. According to some sources, top British taekwondoin he coached include -- Lennox Carty, Ian Willox, Basil Pinnock and Chengis Jamel. Since you are in the UK, and say you were taught by Master Han, it might be more enlighteninng for you to identify yourself and let us know, more of what you know, maybe in a a new thread focusing on the recent history of Britich Taekwondo.

 

[Qiven]

Just out of curiosity I will look into whether Master Han's activities in the UK have any bearing on Kenyan Taekwondo development. I don't think they do because he was in Kenya in the 1980s. That's before he came to the U.K, where according to a press report I've read, and other sources, he was team coach of the British Taekwondo Control Board. According to some sources, top British taekwondoin he coached include -- Lennox Carty, Ian Willox, Basil Pinnock and Chengis Jamel. Since you are in the UK, and say you were taught by Master Han, it might be more enlighteninng for you to identify yourself and let us know, more of what you know, maybe in a a new thread focusing on the recent history of Britich Taekwondo.

I have considered your intention to satisfy your curiosity by investigating Mr Han’s activities in the UK and in particular his departure from Slough Taekwondo Club and the UK. It may be necessary to bring this matter to the attention of the Kenyan TKD Association on the basis that if anyone has a vested interest in the future of Kenyan WTF TKD then they do

 

[Qiven]

Just out of curiosity I will look into whether Master Han's activities in the UK have any bearing on Kenyan Taekwondo development. I don't think they do because he was in Kenya in the 1980s. That's before he came to the U.K, where according to a press report I've read, and other sources, he was team coach of the British Taekwondo Control Board. According to some sources, top British taekwondoin he coached include -- Lennox Carty, Ian Willox, Basil Pinnock and Chengis Jamel. Since you are in the UK, and say you were taught by Master Han, it might be more enlighteninng for you to identify yourself and let us know, more of what you know, maybe in a a new thread focusing on the recent history of Britich Taekwondo.

Hello ArchTKD. You've been unusually quiet recently following your comment that you will investigate the activities of Mr Han in the UK (in particular his association with Slough TKD Club and specifically the reason for and manner of his departure from them and the UK). According to my sources there remains an issue of lewd conduct whilst carrying out his duties as a TKD coach. Perhaps you would like to comment on this forum

 

[Archtkd]

Hello ArchTKD. You've been unusually quiet recently following your comment that you will investigate the activities of Mr Han in the UK (in particular his association with Slough TKD Club and specifically the reason for and manner of his departure from them and the UK). According to my sources there remains an issue of lewd conduct whilst carrying out his duties as a TKD coach. Perhaps you would like to comment on this forum

Sorry. I'm not going to be baited to doing dirty work you should be doing yourself, in your own country, investigating matters in a club that you are involved in. I'd suggest you refer the matter to authorities or police in the UK. This thread was and has never been about investigating matters of what instructors are doing in the UK. In fact your anonymous postings are now getting into areas of libel and slander and have no bearing whatsoever on Kenyan taekwondo, the subject of this thread?

 

[Qiven]

' baited to doing your dirty work' or just scared to find out the truth about some of the company you keep?
Given that Mr Han departed from the UK circa 1993 your suggestion referring this matter to UK authorities is pointless
libel and slander? Why doesn't Mr Han address this forum himself to deny what I've posted here?
'no bearing whatsoever on Kenyan taekwondo'? Who are you to determine this?
The readers can get a taste of the esteem held for Mr Han by his former club in the UK (Slough TKD Club) by reading the About Us page from their website where it states:
'5th Dan Korean Master from Kenya to take over the Club. The Club again flourished and re-established itself as the leading Taekwondo Club in the United Kingdom. The Korean Master taught until 1993, however due to unforeseen circumstances the Club again went in to decline.'
What were these unseen circumstances?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

thread locked pending staff review