Kenpo or Kempo

[DavidCC]

David C.
What I wrote was not a believeable story, it is a fact. I was there when it was brought into the early SKK system. I know the involved Chinese Masters. Much of the early material that was taught was from the Hungar system.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were less than truthful or anything like that. I just meant, that is what you wrote, but I didn't have any concrete, independant proof of it, which is why I used the word "story".

In my own mind, what I think of as the "story" or "history" of Shaolin kempo, I have accepted that as the facts... but I don't have any way to convince anyone else that it is so. In other words, I believe you

-david

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Sorry but the two are not interchangeable, with the "m" being tied mostly to a Japanese/Okinawan Lineage, while the "n" being Chinese in spite of their linquistic similarities and cultural origins.

That statement is incorrect as I'm reading it. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but Kempo and Kenpo are romanizations of the same Japanese word. Kempo is actually the proper romanization much like Jujutsu was first romanized as Jujuitsu then Jujitsu and then it was figured out that Jujutsu was the proper one.

The only Chinese connection being that the Japanese use Kanji which is a Chinese system of writing. Kanji is not a phonetic (sound oriented) system of writing but rather a pictoral system supposedly derived from fortune telling and the patterns bones would land in. Written in Chinese Kanji it comes from 2 Kanji together. The 1st Kanji is for Fist, Ken in Japanese. The 2nd Kanji for Law, Ho in Japanese. When pronounce together by the Japanese Ken and Ho sound like Kempo. In Mandarain the same Kanji are said as Chuan Fa and in Cantonese. This is what I know but I don't claim to know it all. Perhaps there is a Chinese dialect that uses the word Kenpo for these Kanji that I don't know of but it would have to be a very obscure one.

Now if someone was teaching a true Shaolin Martial Art it would be called Shaolin Chuan Fa or Shaolin Gung Fu because the Shaolin Temple is in an area that uses the Mandarin Dialect. In Japan they would translate it to Shorinji Kempo. I know nothing of the history so I'm not disputing anything but the irony of the term Shaolin Kempo is that you are using a Chinese word together with a Japanese word to describe something in an English speaking country.

_Don Flatt

 

[Ray]

That statement is incorrect as I'm reading it. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong but Kempo and Kenpo are romanizations of the same Japanese word. Kempo is actually the proper romanization much like Jujutsu was first romanized as Jujuitsu then Jujitsu and then it was figured out that Jujutsu was the proper one.

The translation into English of the branch of arts that came to the Western World from China to Okinawa to Japan, is generally referred to as Kempo.

The translation into English of the art that traces its roots through William K.S. Chow is generally referred to as Kenpo.

The translation of the same characters when referring to the peace-time Japanese constitution that I've seen most often is Kenpo.

The only Chinese connection being that the Japanese use Kanji which is a Chinese system of writing. Kanji is not a phonetic (sound oriented) system of writing but rather a pictoral system supposedly derived from fortune telling and the patterns bones would land in. Written in Chinese Kanji it comes from 2 Kanji together. The 1st Kanji is for Fist, Ken in Japanese. The 2nd Kanji for Law, Ho in Japanese. When pronounce together by the Japanese Ken and Ho sound like Kempo. In Mandarain the same Kanji are said as Chuan Fa and in Cantonese. This is what I know but I don't claim to know it all. Perhaps there is a Chinese dialect that uses the word Kenpo for these Kanji that I don't know of but it would have to be a very obscure one.

I don't believe that the word "Kanji" is Chinese...I believe it is a Japanese-ization of a Chinese word "Han-zi." Kind of like kenpo and kempo are Japanese-zation of the phrase "chu'an fa"

I get the feeling that the people who were involved in Kenpo in Hawaii were more concerned with learning the art and using it more than translating languages. If someone shows you a motorized material handling device and says "this is a forklift" or "this is a tow-motor" you're probably going to refer to it as he does and the people around you do.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I'm sticking with Kenpo as the name of the art I practice.

 

[Doc]

As I said before, basically "everyone" is right for various reasons. Basically within China Chaufa/Chanshu, outside China translations a go-go Kenpo/kempo. I suggest to resolve this completely, we all work on out stances.

 

[Ray]

I suggest to resolve this completely, we all work on our stances.

I can't work on stances until I finish working on the foot-work that gets me from stance to stance....See what a few hours at your place did to me...the more I learn the less I know.

 

[Doc]

I can't work on stances until I finish working on the foot-work that gets me from stance to stance....See what a few hours at your place did to me...the more I learn the less I know.

You know, I was saying the same thing to myself last night in class, and then I remembered Ed Parker said the same thing to me.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

In Mandarain the same Kanji are said as Chuan Fa and in Cantonese

I forgot to write that in Cantonese the same Kanji or Hanzi are said Can Fat.


_Don Flatt

 

[LawDog]

David C.
I understand now, was my error, no problemo.
:ultracool

 

[Doc]

I can't work on stances until I finish working on the foot-work that gets me from stance to stance....See what a few hours at your place did to me...the more I learn the less I know.

"The road to greatnest is paved by the knowledge that what we know is very little." - Ed Parker