Kenpo 5.0 Commercial

[MJS]

I can add a small detail:
there is a huge difference between a handsword to the front of the throat and the side of the neck.

And this is why, IIRC, I stated earlier that we should be able to adapt and change to whats presented to us at the time. Hell in 5 Swords I was taught a few different versions, one being the 4 finger eye shot and another a palm to the face.

 

[MJS]

Very true, but for many the material wasn't available, so it wasn't their fault. Most learned only what was available, and didn't know other aspects even existed. But, later still many were so caught up in the commercial system and making a living working what they knew, they couldn't see anything else.

So for the masses it simply didn't exist, and for the rest it wasn't available. The problem was, as the red grew the less interest many had in anything more anyway. Mr. Parker hinted at a lot of material, but trusted very few. He had the "white belt experience I spoke of above, but he also had his own personal experience.

He was driving with his wife one day, and got into an argument with a guy that cut him off in traffic. They both pulled over and Parker handled it, "Hawaiian style." The guy was bloodied and unconscious and Parker jumped back in his car and left. He literally was scared to death of the prospect that he might have killed the guy, and that never left his mind. Ultimately he discovered the guy was alright because he saw him driving down the road weeks later. Up until that point Parker was beset with sleepless nights and was constantly praying in church for "forgiveness." The incident had a profound impact on what he was doing and his ensuing philosophy and personal evolution.

Thanks Doc. Regarding this and post #99. I have a few questions:

1) You stated that Mr. Parker assumed that people would have the common sense to know that hitting your drunk friend in the throat at a party is wrong. So, seeing that he had 2 versions, the commercial and the non commercial, for lack of better words...wouldn't it just be better to teach 1 version...perhaps the one that you teach? I mean, obviously there is a heck of alot more in-depth study, but isn't that the point of arts like Kenpo....to put in alot of time, to really learn the art? If someone wanted to learn the 'faster' version, do something like Krav Maga or another RBSD based art.

2) Going on what you and Doc Dave have said, let me give the following scenarios to make sure I'm following correctly.

A) You're confronted by the road rage driver at the intersection. You do whats necessary to end it, simply hitting him with 2 shots. Result: You should be safe for your actions.

B) Same situation only he doesn't stop after 2 shots, so you hit with him 2 more. Still doesn't stop so you do 3 more. It stops. Result: Still safe because he continued to escalate, you responded and stopped when the threat was done.

C) Same situation, only after those 2 or 3 shots he goes down and you continue to kick in his ribs, and stomp his head. Result: Keep your back to the wall because Bubba will be waiting for you.

 

[DavidCC]

If someone wanted to learn the 'faster' version, do something like Krav Maga or another RBSD based art

Yeah, but then Ed Parker doesn't get paid!

but seriously, I don't think choices like that were available when Mr. Parker made these decisions. In fact he opeend the door for that kind of thing, in a way.

 

[MJS]

Yeah, but then Ed Parker doesn't get paid!

but seriously, I don't think choices like that were available when Mr. Parker made these decisions. In fact he opeend the door for that kind of thing, in a way.

Good points!

 

[SL4Drew]

2) Going on what you and Doc Dave have said, let me give the following scenarios to make sure I'm following correctly.

Hey, it's not like they were the only two arguing against overkill...I'm hurt.

 

[MJS]

Hey, it's not like they were the only two arguing against overkill...I'm hurt.

My apologies....I'll rephrase that to say Doc, Dave and Drew.

 

[MJS]

Thanks Doc. Regarding this and post #99. I have a few questions:

1) You stated that Mr. Parker assumed that people would have the common sense to know that hitting your drunk friend in the throat at a party is wrong. So, seeing that he had 2 versions, the commercial and the non commercial, for lack of better words...wouldn't it just be better to teach 1 version...perhaps the one that you teach? I mean, obviously there is a heck of alot more in-depth study, but isn't that the point of arts like Kenpo....to put in alot of time, to really learn the art? If someone wanted to learn the 'faster' version, do something like Krav Maga or another RBSD based art.

2) Going on what you and Doc Dave have said, let me give the following scenarios to make sure I'm following correctly.

A) You're confronted by the road rage driver at the intersection. You do whats necessary to end it, simply hitting him with 2 shots. Result: You should be safe for your actions.

B) Same situation only he doesn't stop after 2 shots, so you hit with him 2 more. Still doesn't stop so you do 3 more. It stops. Result: Still safe because he continued to escalate, you responded and stopped when the threat was done.

C) Same situation, only after those 2 or 3 shots he goes down and you continue to kick in his ribs, and stomp his head. Result: Keep your back to the wall because Bubba will be waiting for you.

Seems like this thread got bumped to the bottom, so I thought I'd bump it back up for discussion, as well as for some clarification on the above post.

Looking forward to the replies.

Mike

 

[Doc]

Yeah, but then Ed Parker doesn't get paid!

but seriously, I don't think choices like that were available when Mr. Parker made these decisions. In fact he opeend the door for that kind of thing, in a way.

You are 100% correct on all counts.

 

[Doc]

Thanks Doc. Regarding this and post #99. I have a few questions:

1) You stated that Mr. Parker assumed that people would have the common sense to know that hitting your drunk friend in the throat at a party is wrong. So, seeing that he had 2 versions,

He had more versions than that and NONE of them were ever "finalized."

the commercial and the non commercial, for lack of better words...wouldn't it just be better to teach 1 version...perhaps the one that you teach?

There is essentially only one commercial model. That is the Kenpo that the majority are familiar with in some form based on "motion." Easy to sale.

I mean, obviously there is a heck of alot more in-depth study, but isn't that the point of arts like Kenpo....to put in alot of time, to really learn the art?

For some yes, but obviously there is a market for less than in-depth information, if you can get rank or status for it.

If someone wanted to learn the 'faster' version, do something like Krav Maga or another RBSD based art.

There was no widely available system that awarded rank for continuous study at the time. Certainly in-depth material is better, but it has a less of an appeal for the masses, which includes limited intellectual and physical ability children who make up a substantially lucrative part of the market. Additionally, where were all of the teachers going to magically appear from. What was available were the self-defense courses motion-kenpo is based on. There is a reason why Ed Parker Sr. is known as the Father of American Karate. He is often cited incorrectly as the "Father of American Kenpo." Although he never claimed that distinction, it certainly was true. However, he did claim the "Father of American karate" title.