Kajukenbo or Kosho Ryu

[D.Hardman]

I have a certificate signed by Soke Mitose as well as his daughter, and I wear a gold Kosho Ryu Penadant, and can rank up to brown belt in Kosho Ryu.yet my name isn't on their list on their site either.....it doesn't change who I am.

That doesn't mean that someone who isn't on that list isn't recognized as black belts under Soke Mitose. As for Soke's daughter teaching the lessons.....

I can attest that anyone trained by Thomas Mitose's family absolutly knows Kosho Ryu. If Soke Mitose acknowledges their teaching abilities, then that is ok by me.

What with the gold penadant thing.So what I also have one. What does that mean? I know how your recognized? So don't go there. You know what, Where were you in '68 or '69 when he opened his school in Daly City. You have know idea what was being taught during that time. I never questioned his daughter teaching, she's awesome so was her sister Liz.

 

[D.Hardman]

I suppose the only way you're going to get an answer is to ask him yourself. Second hand information from a third party can twist the facts (albeit unintentional); ever played that game where one person in the circle says something, and by the time it's comes around, it's totally different from the original source? As for his training with Joe Halbuna, I don't recall how long, what ranks (if any) were awarded, or if he received a certification to teach from him. If my memory serves me correctly he said, he "trained" with him. Incidently, so also did Soke Thomas Mitose. It's not unusual for martial artist to cross train in various "styles". And, if an established reputable teacher has listed a student on their "tree" as a black belt, who am I to question it? There is no universal standard in the U.S. for verifying if someone is a certified instructor or not. Though I understand there have been several attempts to do so - none stuck.

I can not verify anything GMaster Bowles says, but I do know one thing: His teaching is effective. I have no doubt he is an excellent teacher, dare I say, he's a master.

In your post May 11th, you said, "you were doing a back ground check...Before (you) go to study with anyone." Are you thinking of training with GMaster Bowles, or one of his instructors, and who may that be?

You also replied to me: "There is NO way in hell that he ever trained with the late Joe Halbuna. THATS A FACT!" Can you explain why?

Why would I train with someone that I know didn't receive his black belt.
I know several people that trained with the Late Joe Halbuna and they all said NO way. People before Barro/Mitose during and after Tom trained with Halbuna. Ask Frank Conway, Bob Machmeier,Bernard Cortez better yet Jeff Wong and Tim Louie. Any more questions?

 

[D.Hardman]

Yep. Don't know why Tom would claim him as a black belt, if he didn't recognize him as one.



I know Tom, do you? No I wouldn't think that anyone who has ever hung around Tom is one of his black belts.
But I also wouldn't think Tom would let those accompanying him in public wear a black belt and his patch unless the rank was legitimate.



Actually I went up to 3rd degree under another instructor before I became one of Gary Forbach's students.
Of course I believe Sijo Emperado. I've had many, many conversations with him and know him very well. But I don't see what that has to do with this discussion about Tony's Kosho rank.



Who's "we". Let's see, you claim to have been a green belt in Kajukenbo? But you know all this for a fact? Or are you listening to some rumors and innuendo from some equally uninformed people?
Sure there are some people that have been promoted before their time or for political reasons? Welcome to the martial arts. Show me a martial art that doesn't have that, to one extent or another.
But again, what does this have to do with your question about Tony's rank and relationship with Kosho?



I think the people who answered you gave as honest a answer as they could. Whether it was 100% accurate, depends on their source of information.
If the member here who claimed to be Tony's former student told you what he was told when he was a student, then he's being honest. Who ever gave him the information may not have been totally honest with him. But their's no need to attack the member 's honesty here.



You know all this to be fact? From a reliable source? If you do, why the need to confirm it here with less reliable sources?
The first answer I gave you was to contact Tom or Tony to get your answer. Have you talked to either man? Not sent unanswered emails to their websites. Have you talked to them?
Nobody knows what the relationship between 2 people is except those 2 people. If it's that important to you, find a way to talk to Tom. He's not a hermit. Go to just about any tournament around the Bay area, and he'll be there. Or the big Kajukenbo events in Las Vegas. Although I will respect Tom's privacy and not give you his phone number, you could make some calls to his people and get in touch with him. I'm sure if someone was parading around misrepresenting themselves as his black belt, he'd want to clear up the misunderstanding.



OK, you need to vent your bitter feelings toward Kajukenbo again. Done. Now back to the topic of Tony Bowles rank in Kosho.



Don't know if his former student was mistaken, or was trying to say that Tom was a student of Joe Halbuna, which is true. Or that it is possible that Tony also got to train some with his teacher's teacher. But I've never heard Tony or any of his people claim that Tony was a Halbuna student.

After this post, I'm trying to understand what your intent is? You came on here asking for information on Tony Bowles. Very few people here know him, or even heard of him, so you got very little information. That doesn't make any of the members here dishonest. No one here is trying to hide anything. They just don't know, or their telling you the little they do know.
You said the reason you were looking for the information was because you were looking for a place to train. Well, your obviously not happy with the information you found, so don't train there. There are many other schools to choose from.
Your allowed to ask questions here, and people are allowed to give honest first hand experience answers.
We do not allow "fraud busting" here. And we do not allow any attacks on people or organizations based on rumor or innuendo.

Check out what his own student said (JT MORRILL)

 

[John Bishop]

After this post, I'm trying to understand what your intent is? You came on here asking for information on Tony Bowles. Very few people here know him, or even heard of him, so you got very little information. That doesn't make any of the members here dishonest. No one here is trying to hide anything. They just don't know, or their telling you the little they do know.
You said the reason you were looking for the information was because you were looking for a place to train. Well, your obviously not happy with the information you found, so don't train there. There are many other schools to choose from.
Your allowed to ask questions here, and people are allowed to give honest first hand experience answers.
We do not allow "fraud busting" here. And we do not allow any attacks on people or organizations based on rumor or innuendo.

My statement still stands

 

[koshojoe]

Why would I train with someone that I know didn't receive his black belt.
I know several people that trained with the Late Joe Halbuna and they all said NO way. People before Barro/Mitose during and after Tom trained with Halbuna. Ask Frank Conway, Bob Machmeier,Bernard Cortez better yet Jeff Wong and Tim Louie. Any more questions?

Mr. Harding,
You are under the impression that I am debating with you. Perhaps I've mis-read your post, or maybe I came off sounding like that. Either way, my response was to share - simply share with you what I know. If you're looking for a qualified instructor I wish you well. If you're motive for this query on this thread is mercenary in nature, then I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Mr.NGMA]

It seams in my group that nobody knows who you are.

My post about the pendant was a loaded one.

If you have a gold pendant, and know Debbie and Liz, then you have been around more than just Kajukenbo as a green belt.

If you want to see if someone is truly ranked what they say, then ask to see their certificate and follow up on the name on the certificate to see if they are legit. If you don't like them, then don't train under them.

There is no reason to unload on a forum if you have a problem with a certain individual.

I

 

[koshojoe]

FOR THE RECORD. I checked with Grand Master Bowles and found that it was I who was mistaken. He never trained under the Late Joe Halbuna - it was his teacher, Hanshi Tom Mitose. Please forgive me of the misquote! Good luck in your search for a teacher Ms. D. Hardman.

 

[koshojoe]

It seams in my group that nobody knows who you are.

My post about the pendant was a loaded one.

If you have a gold pendant, and know Debbie and Liz, then you have been around more than just Kajukenbo as a green belt.

If you want to see if someone is truly ranked what they say, then ask to see their certificate and follow up on the name on the certificate to see if they are legit. If you don't like them, then don't train under them.

There is no reason to unload on a forum if you have a problem with a certain individual.

I

Mr. NGMA (Kosho salute), nice to meet another in the art. I too have the "pendant".

Sincerely,

 

[Mr.NGMA]

Hi JP,
thanks for replying. It's nice to hear from you.

I'd like to also say hi to Mr. Bishop. I've read many of your posts. You have integrity.

 

[elder999]

I'd like to also say hi to Mr. Bishop. I've read many of your posts. You have integrity.

I'll second that....in spades.......:lol:

 

[D.Hardman]

My statement still stands

You know Mr. Bishop your statement still stands. Which means nothing to me. You have done your share of Mitose bashing on other forums. So think your fooling me. You have talked smack about Barro/Mitose and Kosho Ryu. Now you want to make yourself look good. For someone to walk around and say they received a black belt,But yet can't tell you who or when. I know for a fact it wasn't Barro/Mitose. Ask other Kajukenbo people that trained with him. He's a self made black under Kosho Ryu.

 

[D.Hardman]

It seams in my group that nobody knows who you are.

My post about the pendant was a loaded one.

If you have a gold pendant, and know Debbie and Liz, then you have been around more than just Kajukenbo as a green belt.

If you want to see if someone is truly ranked what they say, then ask to see their certificate and follow up on the name on the certificate to see if they are legit. If you don't like them, then don't train under them.

There is no reason to unload on a forum if you have a problem with a certain individual.

I

Why do you say that, anyone can buy a pendant. They don't have a certificate to show. Don't worry Mr.Relp I won't be training with him. Why not unload on a forum everyone else does. Ask Mr. Bishop he has done it on other forums, so why can't I. My statement still stands he can't show a black belt certificate from Daly City. All he has to do is come clean.

 

[MJS]

D.Hardman,

I am not a Kajukenbo student, I don't know as much Kaju history as some others on here do, so I am not really in a place to comment on who trained with who, rank issues, etc. However, it is human nature to disagree, but I do ask that we all do our best to stay civil. If you havent already, please take some time to read thru the rules of this forum. There is no need to bash members of the forum.

Thank you.

Mike

 

[John Bishop]

You know Mr. Bishop your statement still stands. Which means nothing to me.

We do not allow "fraud busting" here. And we do not allow any attacks on people or organizations based on rumor or innuendo.

Well it should, since it's what we refer to here as a "moderator warning".

You have done your share of Mitose bashing on other forums. So think your fooling me. You have talked smack about Barro/Mitose and Kosho Ryu. Now you want to make yourself look good.

In the past I've participated in several discussions on several forums about James Mitose and his history. You can refer to it as bashing, but I consider it presenting documented facts and reference material to try and separate historical facts from historical fiction.
Either way, my previous discussions on other forums has nothing to do with this forum, and this particular topic.
I will say that I don't recall ever "bashing" Tom Barro-Mitose at any time.

For someone to walk around and say they received a black belt,But yet can't tell you who or when. I know for a fact it wasn't Barro/Mitose. Ask other Kajukenbo people that trained with him. He's a self made black under Kosho Ryu.

OK, so you say again. Feel free to present supporting evidence that makes your statement a fact. Because your statement doesn't agree with what I've been told by as recently as last night.
Mark Mitose, Sharon Wong, and Ken Torres are members here. Mark hasn't been active in several weeks, but I'll email him this thread and see if he wants to give a response from the Mitose family.

 

[Danjo]

Why do you say that, anyone can buy a pendant. They don't have a certificate to show. Don't worry Mr.Relp I won't be training with him. Why not unload on a forum everyone else does. Ask Mr. Bishop he has done it on other forums, so why can't I. My statement still stands he can't show a black belt certificate from Daly City. All he has to do is come clean.

Why not identify yourself (as do John Bishop MJS myself and others) so we can get a clear idea of who you are?

I've never read where John bashes Thomas Mitose or his father. I, on the other hand, have bashed those that support ridiculous ideas about James Mitose's history to the point where I was kicked off of a forum for it. If that's the debate you want to start here, I'm up for it, but you should start a new thread.

Oh, and give us your name and training history so we're all on the same ground.

 

[koshojoe]

Why does it have come from "Daly City"?

 

[John Bishop]

Mr. Hardman:
I've been informed by Mark Mitose today that he has contacted you with contact information, and is awaiting your response. Since this is the source of the information you are desiring, I suggest you take him up on his offer and contact him.

 

[Mr.NGMA]

Mr. Hardman,

the pendant was only a rouse to see if you were more than a green belt in Kajukenbo. You gave yourself away from there.I'd be happy to hear more about your history.


By the way, my last name is Relf, not Relp.

 

[D.Hardman]

Why not identify yourself (as do John Bishop MJS myself and others) so we can get a clear idea of who you are?

I've never read where John bashes Thomas Mitose or his father. I, on the other hand, have bashed those that support ridiculous ideas about James Mitose's history to the point where I was kicked off of a forum for it. If that's the debate you want to start here, I'm up for it, but you should start a new thread.

Oh, and give us your name and training history so we're all on the same ground.

Danjo, In Kajukenbo Cafe forum I read earlier this week, it was March 2006 when Mr. Bishop was bashing the Mitoses. Ater reading your comment I went back to Kajukenbo Cafe and could know longer find the post, as a matter of fact the only related Kosho Ryu post left was the interview with Christopher Geary.

I said who I was, name David Hardman trained in Daly City on Mission St. at Barro's Karate. What more do you need.

 

[D.Hardman]

Mr. Hardman,

the pendant was only a rouse to see if you were more than a green belt in Kajukenbo. You gave yourself away from there.I'd be happy to hear more about your history.


By the way, my last name is Relf, not Relp.

Where are you coming from. I bought this pendant years ago.