Kajukenbo / Kosho Ryu Kenpo

[DavidCC]

I went to watch the clip last night and I saw the Fred Villari pinan 1 and the Fred Villari pinan 2, which Steiner's teacher probably learned during his brief USSD career. Is that the right clip? I do have to say that Steiner looked better than CNG, but there were some weird body mechanics going on. It may be that he was trying too hard to impress the guests, but he was leaning in sideways to the windup for his strikes which misaligned his spine in a funny way.

Yes, we call that pinan 2.

That may be a very insightful observation about the "wind up" LOL. I've never seen him do that since then :idunno: he did admit much later that he was pretty nervous about demonstrating in front of Sijo Gascon LOL

Our variation of SKK includes material from Villari/USSD, from NCK, and from Tenshi Goju. Pinan 1-5 and kata 1-5, with a few changes here and there... the forms I've been able to compare seem to have the same "shape" even if some of the handwork is a little different.

 

[bill007]

Quite possibly. It's Kajukenbo "Punch Counter #1". It's also the opening move for Punch Counter #2, #3, #4, #17, and "Two Man Counter #2".

Here's the man that created the technique. And no, it's not Fred Villari.

Mr. Bishop, after viewing the video over and over again I have notice some technical confusion on this particular technique, all the martial artists I have work with teach me if you block from oustside you have to block after the elbow and if you block inside you have to block before the elbow on this particular block we see the complete opposite of everything I have learn, can you give me a hint on this one...

 

[John Bishop]

Mr. Bishop, after viewing the video over and over again I have notice some technical confusion on this particular technique, all the martial artists I have work with teach me if you block from oustside you have to block after the elbow and if you block inside you have to block before the elbow on this particular block we see the complete opposite of everything I have learn, can you give me a hint on this one...

It's a little hard to answer your question, not knowing who your instructors are, and what system they were teaching you.
I will say that this block in Kajukenbo is called a "brush block", and is nothing more then a boxers parry. It is not a hard palm type block. It is used to slightly deflect/redirect a punch away from it's intended target (your face). The block basically slaps the attackers fist, redirecting it a couple inches to either side of your face. If it was done to the attackers elbow, then the fist would have already reached your face. In the picture it looks like the block was done to the elbow, but the attackers punch actually continued forward after being redirected to the right side of Sijo's face. The attackers arm is kept close in to allow for the bicep strike, and a takedown.
In Kajukenbo there are a lot of western boxing techniques, and gunting techniques from Escrima. So some of the movements/techniques may look odd to a traditional karate/kung fu practitioner.

 

[bill007]

It's a little hard to answer your question, not knowing who your instructors are, and what system they were teaching you.
I will say that this block in Kajukenbo is called a "brush block", and is nothing more then a boxers parry. It is not a hard palm type block. It is used to slightly deflect/redirect a punch away from it's intended target (your face). The block basically slaps the attackers fist, redirecting it a couple inches to either side of your face. If it was done to the attackers elbow, then the fist would have already reached your face. In the picture it looks like the block was done to the elbow, but the attackers punch actually continued forward after being redirected to the right side of Sijo's face. The attackers arm is kept close in to allow for the bicep strike, and a takedown.
In Kajukenbo there are a lot of western boxing techniques, and gunting techniques from Escrima. So some of the movements/techniques may look odd to a traditional karate/kung fu practitioner.

I see it's not a hard karate block and probably the 2 dimensions effect and the angle of the picture just give me this impression. Thanks for the info.

 

[SK101]

So much for that 1000 yr old Shaolin Temple propaganda.

Matt

I had heard originally the same thing from Professor I, you will probably want to double check this with him, but I believe he said he had the chance to compare upper DMs with people who have trained at the temple and there is more overlap then may have been thought in the past. Not saying they are from the temple, but it sounded to me like there might actually be a relationship somewhere. Even if there are some with high similarities how they got into the SK curricullum would still be up in the air. It's been atleast a couple of months since that conversation with Professor I so please double check my information.

 

[Gufbal1982]

I had heard originally the same thing from Professor I, you will probably want to double check this with him, but I believe he said he had the chance to compare upper DMs with people who have trained at the temple and there is more overlap then may have been thought in the past. Not saying they are from the temple, but it sounded to me like there might actually be a relationship somewhere. Even if there are some with high similarities how they got into the SK curricullum would still be up in the air. It's been atleast a couple of months since that conversation with Professor I so please double check my information.

when did Professor I go to the temple?

 

[MeatWad2]

GM Villari just made those up. I dont think villari ever went to the shaolin temple.

Prof I quit as a forth degree so I dont think he has all 108 combos.

 

[marlon]

GM Villari just made those up. I dont think villari ever went to the shaolin temple.

Prof I quit as a forth degree so I dont think he has all 108 combos.

I am not sure what you mean by quit but Shihan Ingargiola has never stopped training and learning. I believe he recieved his 5th from Demasco before he left Villari's or Villari himself gave him his fifth...or sixth. Since then he has trained with and achieved rank legitimately from legitimate instructors. No he does not have all 108 combinations, though i think he has a total of 97 combo's...but i am not certain of the exact number.
Respectfully,
marlon

 

[Gufbal1982]

I am not sure what you mean by quit but Shihan Ingargiola has never stopped training and learning. I believe he recieved his 5th from Demasco before he left Villari's or Villari himself gave him his fifth...or sixth. Since then he has trained with and achieved rank legitimately from legitimate instructors. No he does not have all 108 combinations, though i think he has a total of 97 combo's...but i am not certain of the exact number.
Respectfully,
marlon

Um, Marlon...you are mistaken on Professor I's rank when he left Fred Villari's. He was a 4th degree. Steve DeMasco did not promote people to the rank of 5th degree unless Fred Villari was there. I remember e-mailing Professor I, asking him why he left when he was a 4th degree.

 

[marlon]

you could be right. i did not re check his profile before my post....my main point was that he never stopped training


BTW do you know the story of that last test with Demasco^ ask him sometime
marlon

 

[marlon]

You could be right i was not sure whethwer it was 4th or 5th ...my main point is that he has never stopped training. But he did recieve his 5th under the Villari banner

respectfully,
marlon

 

[marlon]

You could be right i was not sure whethwer it was 4th or 5th ...my main point is that he has never stopped training. But he did recieve his 5th under the Villari banner

respectfully,
marlon

 

[MeatWad2]

you could be right. i did not re check his profile before my post....my main point was that he never stopped training


BTW do you know the story of that last test with Demasco^ ask him sometime
marlon

What happen?

 

[Mariachi Joe]

Yeah we'd all like to know