Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[JowGaWolf]

I carry a slingshot that is terrifyingly powerful. I also carry two typed of shot for it. Pepperballs. (Think paintball with pepperspray capzasin content) and steel shot.

40 mm diameter.

It usually is in the small of my back tucked into my belt.
I train 30 minutes daily with it and have done so for about a decade.

I can hit a quarter dollar size coin at 35 feet or almost 11 meters. There are a series of drills to progressively increase accuracy at a distance. Speed comes naturally over deep time.

Quickly, repeatedly and efficiently.
I can do it under pressure as well.

I give my senior students paint ball masks and we go paintballing without the guns. In parking lots, on the streets and alleys, in warehouses and wooded lots.

This trains how to hit a moving target and protect yourself from attack at range. Attacking from cover and concealment.

Bring the pain mode: substitution of pepperballs for paintballs in the range sparing.


I hope to never use it.
But if I come into a situation where my life, or the life and well being of others is in real danger. This will spead the sorting out.

Slingshots are so underestimated. I made one as kid and that thing was awesome. Parents threw it away because we moved to a state where it was illegal. I used to have blow darts as well and I know the technology for both are so much better than 30+ years go. This wouldn't happen to be you in the video? lol Check out some of his videos. He made one slingshot that's equipped with pepper spray and two knives.

sling shot beats sword unless it's this guy.

The sling shot is one of the best hand weapons ever made (in my opinion.) Simple and effective

 

[Dirty Dog]

What about fencer vs a kendo person....

Since fencing means "sparring with swords"...

People seem to be operating under the impression that "fencing" means the sort done in the olympics. It does not.
It should also be remembered that Olympic fencing with foil, epee, or saber, bears little resemblance to fighting with a small sword, rapier, or back sword.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Were I a betting man, I'd wager a fencer would fare far better against an MMAist with a stick than someone who trains in any style that does not incorporate some practical feedback in some way, such as live drills, sparring and competition.

So the MMA fighter who doesn't use a weapon at all would do better than a person who trains with weapons but doesn't spar with weapons? Out of curiosity do you use train with weapons in your fighting system?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What about fencer vs a kendo person....

 

[Steve]

So the MMA fighter who doesn't use a weapon at all would do better than a person who trains with weapons but doesn't spar with weapons? Out of curiosity do you use train with weapons in your fighting system?

Some mma fighters who don't train with weapons would do better than some people who do train with them.

I am specifically challenging the assertion that the martial artist (in this case an aikidoka) who trains with a bokken would almost always (someone was even specific to the point of saying 85%, IIRC) defeat an MMAist with a bokken.

I am asserting that, given the relative consistency of the MMA training model from school to school and the acknowledged inconsistency of aikido training from school to school, it is not a given that the aikidoka would prevail. It really depends upon how the aikidoka trains.

I am further asserting that one can be functionally less capable of using a sword if one's training is impractical and creates a gap between what a person can do and what that person THINKS he/she can do.

Finally, I am suggesting that this doesn't have to be a theoretical conversation. It is easy for an individual aikidoka to test his or her specific ability by actually giving a bokken to an experienced MMAist and seeing how it goes.

 

[TSDTexan]

Your missing fundamentals.
A. Usmc ma is combat ma. Not civilian defense system or sport. In other words killing is the primary objective of the majority of the techniques.
B. Akido and aiki jujutsu techniques and strategies are derived from such a combat MA.

Not an unfair comparison.

The difference between Aiki Jujutsu and Aikido are more philosophical than technical.

It still remains that an unarmed opponent without training in weapons or weapon defence is going after a guy who has a deadly weapon, is proficient and has more then three feet of range.

Its very one sided.

 

[Steve]

I wonder what kendo and fencing have in common that would be relevant to this discussion?


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[elder999]

Your missing fundamentals.
A. Usmc ma is combat ma. Not civilian defense system or sport. In other words killing is the primary objective of the majority of the techniques.

The current MCMAP is not primarily "killing." It was developed for the Marine Corps' changing mission, and geared more towards "arrest" and police action....as well as fitness.

From a combat aspect, and even martial arts aspect, having had recent direct experience with it, I gotta say it kinda sucks....it's okay for people who have time to pursue it and some other (real) martial art alongside it, but most Marines don't have any real skill at it, or the time to develop it.

B. Akido and aiki jujutsu techniques and strategies are derived from such a combat MA.

Not an unfair comparison.

The difference between Aiki Jujutsu and Aikido are more philosophical than technical.

Having direct experience with both arts, the differences are technical as well as philosophical.

 

[drop bear]

I would probably look stupid doing so

Your major issue right there. And so cops would find a reason to stop you.

 

[drop bear]

Fencers spar and compete. Give a fencer a live blade and I expect someone who doesn't spar or compete would get stuck with it pretty quickly. Were I a betting man, I'd wager a fencer would fare far better against an MMAist with a stick than someone who trains in any style that does not incorporate some practical feedback in some way, such as live drills, sparring and competition.

Edit: And for the record, this is another association fallacy, unless you truly believe and are asserting that fencing and aikido share more than an extremely superficial resemblance that amounts to both holding a longish blade/stick.

Case in point.

 

[drop bear]

Just like Bart Simpson. Unfortunately those are illegal in Australia.

Not in qld surprisingly.

 

[drop bear]

The same can be said with a 6 foot staff. I could give an everyday person who is strong enough to swing a staff, but if they don't have the techniques and knowledge on how to fight with it, then that staff becomes useless. Some people would try big baseball bat swings (end game) or they would try poking with an incorrect grip (end game), others will try to hold it like they see in the movies in hopes that they can figure it out (end game).

So you are suggesting they may try something like this.

And you would be all over them?

Personally I don't know how you could say one way or the other. And I would suggest you go find out.

 

[JowGaWolf]

[/QUOTE]

Some mma fighters who don't train with weapons would do better than some people who do train with them.

I am specifically challenging the assertion that the martial artist (in this case an aikidoka) who trains with a bokken would almost always (someone was even specific to the point of saying 85%, IIRC) defeat an MMAist with a bokken.

I am asserting that, given the relative consistency of the MMA training model from school to school and the acknowledged inconsistency of aikido training from school to school, it is not a given that the aikidoka would prevail. It really depends upon how the aikidoka trains.

I am further asserting that one can be functionally less capable of using a sword if one's training is impractical and creates a gap between what a person can do and what that person THINKS he/she can do.

Finally, I am suggesting that it is easy for an individual aikidoka to test his or her specific ability by actually giving a bokken to an experienced MMAist and seeing how it goes.

I wonder what kendo and fencing have in common that would be relevant to this discussion?


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someone asked to see it

 

[Xue Sheng]

Since fencing means "sparring with swords"...

People seem to be operating under the impression that "fencing" means the sort done in the olympics. It does not.
It should also be remembered that Olympic fencing with foil, epee, or saber, bears little resemblance to fighting with a small sword, rapier, or back sword.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

It was actually more a comment to my feeling of the silliness of the comparison MMA vs. sword fighter, that is was to be take all that seriously.

Anyway I was referring to...

I still feel this post is more deserving of this actually

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your major issue right there. And so cops would find a reason to stop you.

I'm black so I've been stopped for no reason at all before,no weapon needed, but that's a different story. I do carry weapons on me but that's because they aren't your typical weapons. If I were to carry a sword it would be on my back in a tube that looks less threating. I would have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and a permit to carry a knife with a blade longer than the law allows. If I was in a crowded place I would have a smaller weapon where I don't have to worry about hitting innocent people from swinging a sword. When I go hiking I take my staff. I have a family member who carries a sword in his car all the time and a friend who carries a gun in her car all the time. Once I learn how to fight with daggers then I'll probably carry those. I used to know about 5 people who carried cane swords.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So you are suggesting they may try something like this.

And you would be all over them?

Personally I don't know how you could say one way or the other. And I would suggest you go find out.

yes. because those attacks aren't difficult to defend against. It would be in my benefit if my opponent swings like that especially with a combat staff which aren't light nor are they flexible like the ones in that video. I'm not bragging. I just understand what makes a staff dangerous and it's no swinging the staff like that.

 

[drop bear]

I'm black so I've been stopped for no reason at all before,no weapon needed, but that's a different story. I do carry weapons on me but that's because they aren't your typical weapons. If I were to carry a sword it would be on my back in a tube that looks less threating. I would have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and a permit to carry a knife with a blade longer than the law allows. If I was in a crowded place I would have a smaller weapon where I don't have to worry about hitting innocent people from swinging a sword. When I go hiking I take my staff. I have a family member who carries a sword in his car all the time and a friend who carries a gun in her car all the time. Once I learn how to fight with daggers then I'll probably carry those. I used to know about 5 people who carried cane swords.

You ever used a knife on a guy or seen someone machetied?

Have you been in a weapon fight?

It is a pretty big step to take.
The thing I like about unarmed S.D. is I have some control over whether I kill someone or not.

And you still don't know how you are actually going to go against this untrained guy.

 

[drop bear]

yes. because those attacks aren't difficult to defend against. It would be in my benefit if my opponent swings like that especially with a combat staff which aren't light nor are they flexible like the ones in that video. I'm not bragging. I just understand what makes a staff dangerous and it's no swinging the staff like that.

And that pretty much explains my issue here. You don't have the practical experience.
You get the same with people who watch mma fights. And are like. "But they swing so wildy and do not have the sophistication that my martial art does"

It comes from defining fighting ability from the wrong place.

 

[drop bear]

It was actually more a comment to my feeling of the silliness of the comparison MMA vs. sword fighter, that is was to be take all that seriously.

Anyway I was referring to...

I still feel this post is more deserving of this actually

As a society we are still beating the dead horse of Darwinism and climate change.

I mean there is a creation museum.
Creation Museum - Creation, Evolution, Science, Dinosaurs, Family, Christian Worldview | Creation Museum

So I am not sure the dead horse comment is relevant. If you defined this by scientific method. Many martial arts would just fall over.

Martial arts that pressure test. Would pass. And that would be the end of it.

But martial arts encompasses more than that so the debate continues.

And it is not necessarily mma vs sword fighter. That is apples and oranges. It would be training sword using mma training methods. Vs by rote kata and drills.

 

[TSDTexan]

Some mma fighters who don't train with weapons would do better than some people who do train with them.

I am specifically challenging the assertion that the martial artist (in this case an aikidoka) who trains with a bokken would almost always (someone was even specific to the point of saying 85%, IIRC) defeat an MMAist with a bokken.

I am asserting that, given the relative consistency of the MMA training model from school to school and the acknowledged inconsistency of aikido training from school to school, it is not a given that the aikidoka would prevail. It really depends upon how the aikidoka trains.

I am further asserting that one can be functionally less capable of using a sword if one's training is impractical and creates a gap between what a person can do and what that person THINKS he/she can do.

Finally, I am suggesting that this doesn't have to be a theoretical conversation. It is easy for an individual aikidoka to test his or her specific ability by actually giving a bokken to an experienced MMAist and seeing how it goes.

If you are going with my greater than 85%...
Please allow my stipulated criteria.

If 100 fights happen between various mma vs Aikidoka
And...
If the instructor was orthodox (correct art transmission)
and...
If the instructor was proficient (knew how to correctly teach)
and...
the student was in proper shape (his body and mind could properly perform, the art he was correctly taught)
and...
The student had applied himself in learning the sword art.
(He sought excellence and was good at aikido sword work)

With these conditions set... 85 fights of 100 would be won by Aikidoka... or more.

Now the reason I can estimate is I have seen UFC grade mma fighters go up against weapons. They have no training and have to reinvent the wheel (unarmed vs armed) while a lion is running at them.

Maybe 15 guys of a hundred will get lucky enough to see an opening and exploit it.

But I don't event believe 15 would. Maybe less.

But that would be a wager I would bet.