Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[TSDTexan]

Considering the amount of grappling training MMA fighters receive, I'd hesitate to consider them "strikers".



You can view several of the Gracie in Action fights that end with G&P.

I would be quite interested in seeing some TMA G&P vids. Got any on hand?

Remember when I showed you the no grab take down, the first of which was done by a KarateKa? Remember he punched for the point after the takedown?

You realize the self defense version of the same technique has no "points" but instead is a rain of blows until the KarateKa feels safe enough to stop and / or that the agressor has no further will to fight.

As I said before. I am not your personal researcher.
I have been doing Karate derived martial arts for twenty two or twenty three years. I KNOW we have GnP. And always have. If you bother to serously look you will verify this for yourself.

there several places in kata where you “go to the ground” Heian Godan, Kanku Dai, Unsu etc. Why does a kata have you on the ground ever? Because while a KarateKa is not a NeWaza specialist... he does go there.

 

[TSDTexan]

Where did I say "blocks are worthless"?

It was corrected already.

 

[Hanzou]

It was corrected already.

And when I'm talking about blocking, I'm talking about the impractical blocking found in traditional karate and KF.

Example;

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ground grappling just doesn't work like it used to.
A lot of strikers have learned how to avoid getting drug down and submitted.

The ground game has become more familiar so fighters are better able to defend against it. The more familiar you are with a fighting system the better you'll be in avoiding certain aspects of that fighting system. This is one of the reasons why Chinese martial arts were so secretive with their fighting system. Once someone understands how your fighting system works, then they can start creating better counters. This understanding will also mean that a person will be more careful with throwing punches and kicks as it could mean that their opponent can take them to the ground.

The ground game is still important, it just isn't that big of surprise as it used to be. Fighters don't panic like they used to when someone shoots on them. And more of them are refusing to get on the ground if they don't have to, even if their opponent is on the ground.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And when I'm talking about blocking, I'm talking about the impractical blocking found in traditional karate and KF.

Example;

I use a similar block in kung fu and it works. The purpose of this block is to redirect a punch to the outside of your body allowing you to punch your opponent using the inside . I know for a fact that this works. Both karate and kung fu uses this technique in the same way during a fight in which the block itself is used with a punch as well. In this case I would be punching at the same time I'm using the block to redirect my opponent's punch. If your arm is conditioned then the block will also damage your opponents arm. This is actually one of the most practical techniques.

 

[TSDTexan]

And when I'm talking about blocking, I'm talking about the impractical blocking found in traditional karate and KF.

Example;

Your original statement:
We might as well include the blocking techniques as well. Completely impractical, and I honestly have never seen them used in a fighting context.
Was very broad. I have hammered on it.
Now you are adding specifics.

Are you sure you want to stand by your improved statement?

"We might as well include the blocking techniques found in Karate and KungFu as well. Completely impractical, and I honestly have never seen them used in a fighting context."

Because I have seen George Foreman throwing the same augmented block as Motobu Choki's augmented block. Fist against elbow sucked in tight. Looks impractical but blocks well.

The point of a block is to prevent a blow from becoming a good clean hit.


The main purpose of the uchi uke...
That outside block done with the inside of the forearm takes a centerline strike right offline against the center, and exposes ribs and kidneys to a counterstrike.
Works reliably.

Against a headkick or bodykick, it easily converts into a temp-grab (by rotating the wrist and grabbing shin or fabric) as I am sweeping the leg or striking the outside of the knee joint.
Or even a low push kick to the knee to hyperextend it.

As the attacker hits the ground it then converts into a legbar.
Game over.

 

[Steve]

So are you with Hanzou "We might as well include the blocking techniques as well. Completely impractical, and I honestly have never seen them used in a fighting context."


Or with me "blocks have more value today than in the last 15 years"

really? Those are my only two choices?

 

[TSDTexan]

And when I'm talking about blocking, I'm talking about the impractical blocking found in traditional karate and KF.

Example;

Three Step Sparring (Sanbon Kumite). Middle Level Block (Uchi-Uke) and Reversed Punch (Gyaku-Zuki)

 

[TSDTexan]

really? Those are my only two choices?

No that was a request to pick from the two... because that was what the tug-o-war was about when you chimed in

 

[Steve]

The ground game has become more familiar so fighters are better able to defend against it. The more familiar you are with a fighting system the better you'll be in avoiding certain aspects of that fighting system. This is one of the reasons why Chinese martial arts were so secretive with their fighting system. Once someone understands how your fighting system works, then they can start creating better counters. This understanding will also mean that a person will be more careful with throwing punches and kicks as it could mean that their opponent can take them to the ground.

The ground game is still important, it just isn't that big of surprise as it used to be. Fighters don't panic like they used to when someone shoots on them. And more of them are refusing to get on the ground if they don't have to, even if their opponent is on the ground.

The surprise is when you find out that knowing about something is very different from being able to do something. Understanding is not the same as applying.

 

[Steve]

No that was a request to pick from the two... because that was what the tug-o-war was about when you chimed in

Option number three is that the tug of war is ridiculous.

 

[TSDTexan]

Option number three is that the tug of war is ridiculous.

True.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And when I'm talking about blocking, I'm talking about the impractical blocking found in traditional karate and KF.

Example;

In the example that you have presented, the guy only moves his arm. He doesn't move his body. IMO, that the wrong way to do blocking.

In CMA, if you want to block a punch, you either rotate your body to your left, or rotate your body to your right. Your arm sometime don't even move at all.

When you apply your blocking this way, it will be no difference from the boxing "dodging with head guard".

The CMA

- "comb hair" is similar to the boxing "crazy monkey".
- "rhino guard" is similar to the boxing "head guard".
- ...

 

[TSDTexan]

Old school karate ground and pound...
Folks have tried to tell me this is an example of a karateka overextening a reverse punch... and no... its a feint if it doesn't connect.. meant to totally dominate.

it is demonstrated in video here..n but it was in the eccentric Shigeru Egami's book, The Heart of Karate Do, as an application. Egami was one of Funakoshi's original students, but became gradually more eccentric after Funakoshi's passing.

 

[elder999]

Old school karate ground and pound...
Folks have tried to tell me this is an example of a karateka overextening a reverse punch... and no... its a feint if it doesn't connect.. meant to totally dominate.

Hey, that's shotokan!

Everybody knows those throws and takedowns don't work...just ask Hanzou.
(Talk about 据え物にして打つ)

 

[TSDTexan]

Hey, that's shotokan!

Everybody knows those throws and takedowns don't work...just ask Hanzou.

Yes... he probably missed that class too.

 

[TSDTexan]

In the example that you have presented, the guy only moves his arm. He doesn't move his body. IMO, that the wrong way to do blocking.

In CMA, if you want to block a punch, you either rotate your body to your left, or rotate your body to your right. Your arm sometime don't even move at all.

When you apply your blocking this way, it will be no difference from the boxing "dodging with head guard".

The CMA

- "comb hair" is similar to the boxing "crazy monkey".
- "rhino guard" is similar to the boxing "head guard".
- ...

Yeah. Very static image. Not very alive.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah. Very static image. Not very alive.

When you apply blocking, in the

- beginner level, you move your arm without moving your body.
- advance level, you move your body without moving your arm.

In other words, in the advance level, your "blocking" and "dodging" are integrated together.

 

[TSDTexan]

When you apply blocking, in the

- beginner level, you move your arm without moving your body.
- advance level, you move your body without moving your arm.

In other words, in the advance level, your "blocking" and "dodging" are integrated together.

Yeah.
A stance is a stance... except it isnt. Its a transition. But how can you sell a book full of crappy out of focused shots and teach the movement and correct postures of the transitions.

Well.. you cant.
So lets call em stances and sell the books anyway.

 

[TSDTexan]

Hey, that's shotokan!

Everybody knows those throws and takedowns don't work...just ask Hanzou.
(Talk about 据え物にして打つ)

But its a bit gratuitous over the "returning hand snatch" ahem.. I mean chamber.