Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[Hanzou]

because boxing is doing sooo well these days Mayweather-Pacquiao is over and boxing is dead, again

We weren't talking about popularity or entertainment value, we were talking about applying it to a street fight.

 

[Tez3]

We weren't talking about popularity or entertainment value, we were talking about applying it to a street fight.

Mmm well no, you were telling us how boxers were so much fitter etc than fat Chinese stylists, well that's obviously not true when we have overweight, unfit and not very good pro boxers! probably best just not to generalise and to refrain from slagging off people you know nothing about really.

 

[Hanzou]

Mmm well no, you were telling us how boxers were so much fitter etc than fat Chinese stylists, well that's obviously not true when we have overweight, unfit and not very good pro boxers! probably best just not to generalise and to refrain from slagging off people you know nothing about really.

Uh, I was comparing Mike Tyson, a sport competitor , to your average traditional martial arts instructor who teaches "self defense", in which there are plenty of examples.

But yeah, if you want to play that game, I'm willing to bet that a pro boxer is going to be far more fit and athletic than the owner/instructor of a McDojo, and far more capable of handling themselves in a fight.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Trying to test my knowledge of the (first) Sino-Japanese war because you have an axe to grind isn't relevant to the topic.

No axe to grind, Unless you feel one has an axe to grind in trying to get to the truth of a matter. You brought it up so I asked a legitimate question. if you cannot answer it then I can only assume you do not actually know.

And the question was not actually about the first Sino-Japanese war was it, I did not specify 1st or 2nd, you threw 1st into the fray, although by years you used, one can assume that you are talking about the 1st. But in reality it was related to it in the form of "Do you know what martial art the Chinese soliders were trained in during the Sino-Japanese war? Pretty specific question actually

If you know then post it, if you don't than a simple no will do as well.

I didn't view it as worth responding to, since several others were asking pretty much the same question.

Were those questions answered by you, if they were asked of you and not answered then they are relevant

And "pretty much" means what?

I asked rather specific questions about Sanda

Again, not answering I can only assume that you do not actually know.

Pretty easy, and relevant to the discussion, questions to answer, if you know then why not just answer, if you do not then admit it, that seems rather simple to me

No offense.

No offense taken, just trying to asses if what is being said comes from actual knowledge or if it is just off the cuff to sound like you do to stop the questions

You're welcome, but you could have put that statement at the beginning of the post.

Why? It was the last part of your post so I took them in order, and I was not going to thank you for the first two sections since you did not answer any questions.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can't compare fighting sports to self-defense. The mindset of self-defense is so different. For example, fighting sports have rules that protect the fighters safety. Self-defense throws all of those rules out the window. Someone with a self-defense mentality will do any thing to beat the attacker, poke eyes, hit groins, bite, break fingers, pick up a weapon, bring a weapon, push a guy into moving traffic (I was in a real life conflict where I made this my option of possible things to do to that guy).

Self-defense training takes into account 100+ different thing things that a sports competitor doesn't have to worry about. As much as I dislike McDojos because they give people the false impression that they can actually fight. I wouldn't risk assuming that the instructor has McDojo skills just because his takes advantage of his students and gives them McDojo skills. The instructor may actually be legit and just a crooked person with no morals or genuine concern for his students. Bad people know how to fight too.

I'm not bring this up as a debate, but as something that everyone should keep in the back of their mind.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I said this along time ago, the main difference between sport and non-spot MA is that one trains to fight and expects to fight a person they very likely may see again, because it is expected to happen and the other trains to fight, but hopes not to fight, a person then hope to never see again. Add to that Sports MA training is not necessarily training for weapons defense or use, but some are and some are quite capable of dealing with it. And some traditional MA are in the same exact boat.

To be honest I never get these discussions, one is no better than the other if trained correctly. It is just their focus is slightly different.

 

[Hanzou]

You can't compare fighting sports to self-defense. The mindset of self-defense is so different. For example, fighting sports have rules that protect the fighters safety. Self-defense throws all of those rules out the window. Someone with a self-defense mentality will do any thing to beat the attacker, poke eyes, hit groins, bite, break fingers, pick up a weapon, bring a weapon, push a guy into moving traffic (I was in a real life conflict where I made this my option of possible things to do to that guy).

This viewpoint has been settled multiple times. Judo did it at the turn of the century, and Gracie JJ did it in the 1990s. You can practice all the deadly techniques you want, but you're not able to apply them when the chips are down, which makes their practice fairly pointless.

Why? Because you can't poke out your partner's eyes in practice. You can't keep kicking them in the nuts. You can't bite them over and over again. In short, its difficult (if not impossible) to practice those techniques and make them reactionary. On the other hand, you can throw someone, you can choke someone, you can arm bar someone, etc. as many times as necessary in order to perfect your technique.

 

[Hanzou]

No axe to grind, Unless you feel one has an axe to grind in trying to get to the truth of a matter. You brought it up so I asked a legitimate question. if you cannot answer it then I can only assume you do not actually know.

Uh, I brought it up in a list of changes that happened to China between 1870 and 1920, showcasing why those two points in Chinese history are different. I'm still waiting for you to tell me how the martial arts practiced by the Chinese "military" in 1894 (or I guess 1931) is relevant to a discussion about Sanda ground fighting.

And the question was not actually about the first Sino-Japanese war was it, I did not specify 1st or 2nd, you threw 1st into the fray, although by years you used, one can assume that you are talking about the 1st. But in reality it was related to it in the form of "Do you know what martial art the Chinese soliders were trained in during the Sino-Japanese war? Pretty specific question actually

If you know then post it, if you don't than a simple no will do as well.

Again, which war are you talking about, and how is this relevant to the topic?

Were those questions answered by you, if they were asked of you and not answered then they are relevant

And "pretty much" means what?

I asked rather specific questions about Sanda

Again, not answering I can only assume that you do not actually know.

I'm sure that I already stated that western boxing was incorporated into Sanda. I'm sure I can find some western influence in the throwing aspects too if I decide to care enough to dig deeper.

Why? It was the last part of your post so I took them in order, and I was not going to thank you for the first two sections since you did not answer any questions.

Oh brother...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why? Because you can't poke out your partner's eyes in practice. You can't keep kicking them in the nuts. You can't bite them over and over again. In short, its difficult

These attacks are very easy to do so there's no "perfect training required" Fighters get hit in the nuts all the time which is why they wear cups.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is a self-defense technique shown in MMA. No practice required.

 

[Hanzou]

These attacks are very easy to do so there's no "perfect training required" Fighters get hit in the nuts all the time which is why they wear cups.

Yeah, and they're not difference makers either. Biting someone who has you pinned on the ground is a great way to get your face smashed. Further, a throw from a Judoka can kill you. A punch from a boxer can kill you. A choke from a Bjj practitioner can kill you.

Kicking someone in the nuts or poking someone in the eye just pisses people off.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All of these shots are legal in self-defense. Especially hits behind the head. No training required. May you never fight a guy that actually trains in doing these illegal shots and who is more than happy to do it.

 

[drop bear]

You can't compare fighting sports to self-defense. The mindset of self-defense is so different. For example, fighting sports have rules that protect the fighters safety. Self-defense throws all of those rules out the window. Someone with a self-defense mentality will do any thing to beat the attacker, poke eyes, hit groins, bite, break fingers, pick up a weapon, bring a weapon, push a guy into moving traffic (I was in a real life conflict where I made this my option of possible things to do to that guy).

You know you really can compare them. The second a competitive fighter is allowed to bite or scratch or pull hair they are going to.

There are pacing differences. But they are generally not rules driven.

So you can have these running battles where some moves become higher percentage and the tactics change. But the basic mindset really dosent.

You wouldn't own the field just because you can eyegouge.

 

[drop bear]

All of these shots are legal in self-defense. Especially hits behind the head. No training required. May you never fight a guy that actually trains in doing these illegal shots and who is more than happy to do it.

All of those shots that were thrown in competition you mean? And that as a fighter you would have to be aware of.

 

[drop bear]

To be honest I never get these discussions, one is no better than the other if trained correctly. It is just their focus is slightly different.

Why couldn't another system not just be better?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Kicking someone in the nuts or poking someone in the eye just pisses people off.

Hanzou are you female? I'm just asking because any male that has ever been kick in the nuts knows that it doesn't piss them off, it just hurts really bad. The only time a guy gets mad about being kicked in the groin is when the kick fails to make contact with the nuts. In those videos it didn't make a difference because it was done in a sporting context where there was someone to stop the fight. In a self-defense situation on the street, when the guy gets kicked in the nuts, he just gets pounded, while he's in pain on the ground. That's the difference.

The fact that the fights are stopped for the safety of the guy who was kicked in the groin or poked in the eye is proof that it makes it different.

 

[Hanzou]

Hanzou are you female? I'm just asking because any male that has ever been kick in the nuts knows that it doesn't piss them off, it just hurts really bad. The only time a guy gets mad about being kicked in the groin is when the kick fails to make contact with the nuts. In those videos it didn't make a difference because it was done in a sporting context where there was someone to stop the fight. In a self-defense situation on the street, when the guy gets kicked in the nuts, he just gets pounded, while he's in pain on the ground. That's the difference.

The fact that the fights are stopped for the safety of the guy who was kicked in the groin or poked in the eye is proof that it makes it different.

Those are competitive sport fights, not life or death fights. In life or death fights, someone isn't going to stop attacking you because of a nut shot. You may stun them for a second, but then they're going to come at you harder than before.

If nut shots were as effective as you say they are, we would have entire martial arts revolving around groin shots. The fact that we don't kind of shows you that they don't end confrontations. I'm not saying that they're useless, what I'm saying is that you can't depend on a nut shot to stop a guy from trying to kill you.

And yes I'm male, and yes i've been hit in the nuts on a variety of occasions.

 

[Tez3]

......... I'm just asking because any male that has ever been kick in the nuts knows that it doesn't piss them off, it just hurts really bad.

What a fuss over such a little thing......................

 

[JowGaWolf]

What a fuss over such a little thing......................

yep. lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

If nut shots were as effective as you say they are, we would have entire martial arts revolving around groin shots

Funny that you should say this. The style of kung fu that I studdy has a kick that is specifically designed for hitting the grown, we also have a hand strike that aims at the same thing, an uppercut, and a jab that I can think of right off the top of my head, not that I think of it, we have another punch that is like a long uppercut that we do. We have a big punch that has a primary target in front and the secondary target groin height. So yeah .. nut shots are that effective. We actually have so many in our style that we are constantly joking, "just punch/kick them in the peaches"

There are nine attacks in this form that can be utilized as groin attacks

There are 5 groin attacks in this form