Jena 6

[crushing]

I understood from the reports he was beat unconscious. For expecially a defensless person in that position with several people allegedly beating on him, death may have been just one more strike away. I guess we can't really know how close to death he really was. We can make guesses based on the reports of the emergency room visit. I can definitely see your point though. If some goes to shoot you in the head, and miss by only centimeters, were you really any closer to death?

Obviously, a lot of things are unclear.

 

[CoryKS]

First time could be stupidity, but the second time is definitely malice:

Two arrested in noose incident near Jena, Louisiana

 

[MJS]

[/indent]I don't think a two and a half hour emergency room visit qualifies as near beaten to death.

Hmm...taken from todays paper.
http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/hc-jena0921.artsep21,0,6851604.story

Then, in December, a white student was beaten up by six black schoolmates outside the school gymnasium. The black students were charged with attempted murder.

The victim in the case, Sharp says, was a white student who was beaten unconscious. "Protesters don't want to talk about him

For what its worth, as we all know how the media is, but nonetheless, I figured I'd post it anyways.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I'm not a big fan of hate crime legislation. Why is it more of a crime to assault someone because of race or sexual orientation? Violence is violence.
Gun crime legislation is similar. Why is is more of a crime to shoot a cop than say, a single mother? It's wrong either way.

Kreth as always speaking along the line of reason. Sometimes we as a country get things really messed up.

 

[michaeledward]

I understood from the reports he was beat unconscious. For expecially a defensless person in that position with several people allegedly beating on him, death may have been just one more strike away. I guess we can't really know how close to death he really was. We can make guesses based on the reports of the emergency room visit. I can definitely see your point though. If some goes to shoot you in the head, and miss by only centimeters, were you really any closer to death?

Obviously, a lot of things are unclear.

Yes, he did lose conciousness. But, we study martial arts. Don't we all know that at any given point in time, death may only be one strike away ... not just one 'more' strike away. And that is true whether we are concious or not.

In much of what I have heard regarding this ... and I have been aware of this for quite some time due to blog posting (albeit only cursorily aware) ... those things that are 'unclear' are just being ignored. It is so much easier to prove a point when unclarity is swept under the rug.

a white student was beaten up by six black schoolmates outside the school gymnasium. The black students were charged with attempted murder.

As others, elsewhere, have observed ... how often do high school fights, end up with felony attempted murder charges?

 

[Mark L]

Locally, Jay Severin was making all sorts of noise about the local legislation yesterday. His unspoken assumption is that the written and passed legislation was being equally applied to all citizens.

The idea that the young men in question "took the law into their own hands" begs the question, did the local law enforcement officials act appropriately at the initial incident?

Did law enforcement / school administration view the placing of lynch nooses in a schoolyard tree as seriously as pointing a loaded firearm in a threating manner? Or was it viewed as a harmless prank, wherein only the 'pride' of the young black man was injured?

As I understand it, little or no action was taken in regard to the initial offense; the hanging of the nooses. If I recall, there were stories about the racial tensions in Jena being put aside during football season. I imagine that those stories originated in the caucasion communitiy.

If an act of terrorism against a community took place .... and if the local law enforcement and civic leaders took little or no action .... does 'taking the law into their own hands' assume a different tenor?

I didn't listen to Severin yesterday, so I can't comment.

I don't know if the local cops acted appropriately according to their statutes, since I have no intimate knowledge of LA law. If we assume for the sake of argument that they didn't, that in no way should be taken as a license for vigilante justice. Do you agree?

The only anecdotal knowledge I have of the actions of local officials is that the DA came before the assembled student body and threatened to ruin their lives with the stroke of a pen if the prevalent behavior continued. I don't think that was enough, the noose hangers should have been dealt with sternly.

What tenor are you referring to in "taking the law into your own hands"? Are you suggesting that the Jena 6 acted appropriately? That there was no other recourse they could take? An eye for an eye, given the attack in a neighboring community?

 

[MJS]

Yes, he did lose conciousness. But, we study martial arts. Don't we all know that at any given point in time, death may only be one strike away ... not just one 'more' strike away. And that is true whether we are concious or not.

IMHO, I think there is a difference. While I acknowledge that the MAs can be capable of delivering lethal shots, the difference IMO, with that is that most people, at least if you're keeping the legal consequences in the back of your mind, will use enough force to end the situation and then stop. If someone attempted to mug a MAist, pulling a knife on him, and the MAist broke the guys arm, ending the situation, would he be in the right to keep beating the guy? IMO, no.

In the J6 scenario, these kids apparently didn't stop once the white youth was down, but instead, continued to beat him until he was unconscious.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Well, that's a hot one. I don't live in Louisiana but I don't doubt racism. I would like to see the facts and histories though. One kid had an early arrest record. Once again, it is Louisiana, the deep south and racism is alive and well. But is this racism, singling out certain individuals? Change comes slow in the south.

And just to be clear, racism exists heartily regardless of race. I grew up in the south, so I know.

There have been severe race problems in New York, Boston, Detroit, etc... Bloodshed and hatred on both sides in those northern cities. Los Angeles erupts every 10 to 15 years into full blown race riots. Why is it so easy to point to the South as a problem area? Whatever problems we have here, I'm willing to bet that our day to day interaction is a lot smoother and friendlier than "up north".

 

[Kreth]

As others, elsewhere, have observed ... how often do high school fights, end up with felony attempted murder charges?

How often are school fights 6-on-1 stompings?

 

[crushing]

As others, elsewhere, have observed ... how often do high school fights, end up with felony attempted murder charges?

I certainly don't disagree with that and it may be harsh and excessive. What I don't understand are the apparent attempts rationalize the beating and try to make it acceptable because of the noose and other incidents.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

How have hanging nooses become the equivalent of a gang assault? While tasteless and deserving of suspension, I cant think of a law hanging nooses breaks. Hanging a noose is nowhere near pointing a weapon at someone. Nowhere near it. Its a ridiculous comparison. Yes its bigoted, racist and wrong. But being bigoted isnt illegal. and a noose is not a weapon. Those idiot skinheads/KKK guys can have parades legally under the protection of the 1st amendment for gods sake and look at the hate they spew.

If the uproar was over the extremity of the charge (which I kind of agree with "attempted murder"? Thats a bit extreme), thats one thing. Saying that the 6 should be freed because a beating isnt as bad as hanging nooses. Or the nooses somehow justifies beating someone almost to death, thats plain stupid. Or is it implied that any white person can take a beating without reprucussions in repayment for an offence against a black person?

But wait..OJ got off because a detective used the "N" word. So I guess I know the answer.

 

[michaeledward]

I don't know if the local cops acted appropriately according to their statutes, since I have no intimate knowledge of LA law. If we assume for the sake of argument that they didn't, that in no way should be taken as a license for vigilante justice. Do you agree?

....

What tenor are you referring to in "taking the law into your own hands"? Are you suggesting that the Jena 6 acted appropriately? That there was no other recourse they could take? An eye for an eye, given the attack in a neighboring community?

Mark L .... I have no doubt that many here are going to misunderstand what I am about to say. So I must try and be delicate, and perhaps, less accurate than I would like.

If we accept the hanging of nooses was an act of terror ...
and, if we accept that local authorities did not handle that terror threat appropriately ...

What action is acceptable?

In Israel, when a Palestinian straps a bomb around his waist and detonates it in a pizza shop, it is apparently acceptable for Israel to launch missles from airplanes into the offices of the leadership organizations among the Palestinians. They take strong action, and many in this country vigorously defend their right to do so.

I am not a fan of vigilante behavior. But the threat against blacks in Jena had been rising for some time. Very real and serious threats against blacks were apparently being disregarded by authorities. Racial tensions were being enflamed.

I believe it is the very nature of the 'soft racism' that continues to exist in our society that allowed the repeated infractions to go unheeded by authorities. 'The System', such as it is in Jena, LA, perceived that it was working fine; when it was failing the young black men in the town.

I believe a wise man once put it thusly:

when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Mr. Barker taunted the Jena 6. I believe Mr. Barker taunted them with the knowledge that the cards were stacked against them, and for him. I can certainly understand how these six young black men could feel they had no other option, but to 'throw off' the Mr. Barker, as a symbol of the 'repeated injuries and usurpations ... of absolute tyranny'.

 

[michaeledward]

How often are school fights 6-on-1 stompings?

I have referenced one fight ... Fair Barn, LA, - albeit not taking place in a school ... where multiple white men - (men, aged over 20) - attacked several black studets . The resulting legal remedy was "probation" for a Mr. Justin Sloan, one of the white attackers.

 

[michaeledward]

How have hanging nooses become the equivalent of a gang assault?

If one is willing to disregard the complexity of the black experience over the past 500 years on this continent, then, no. Not at all.

But, if one looks at the history of blacks in America from the Emancipation Proclamation through the late 20th century, I think nooses are, in fact, far, far worse than a gang assault.

In Israel, the phrase is "Never Again". The icon is the swastika.

In the American South, the phrase is "I have a dream". The icon is the noose.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

But, if one looks at the history of blacks in America from the Emancipation Proclamation through the late 20th century, I think nooses are, in fact, far, far worse than a gang assault.

Im sorry. This may break a rule, but THAT is probably the scariest and stupidest thing I have seen on this forum to date. That includes the 9/11 conspiracy stuff.

And that poor white trucker in LA beaten close to death on TV during the Rodney King riots in LA. Thats just what he deserved for the years of black angst?

 

[crushing]

In Israel, the phrase is "Never Again". The icon is the swastika.

In the American South, the phrase is "I have a dream". The icon is the noose.

Interesting take, and could be upsetting to many. I would have never linked Martin Luther King Jr.'s words with this racially motivated 6 on 1 beatdown (hate crime?). I can't speak for the great man, his words are more than enough on their own, but I have a feeling that isn't what he had in mind.

 

[Lynne]

There have been severe race problems in New York, Boston, Detroit, etc... Bloodshed and hatred on both sides in those northern cities. Los Angeles erupts every 10 to 15 years into full blown race riots. Why is it so easy to point to the South as a problem area? Whatever problems we have here, I'm willing to bet that our day to day interaction is a lot smoother and friendlier than "up north".

I wasn't thinking, Mark, and you are right. My personal experience has been in the south and I'd forgotten about the race riots and racial problems in northern cities.

I just remember how rough it was when I was growing up. We had forced racial integration and riots in my high school every year. On top of that, when I was 15, I was gang-raped by 8 members of another race. Sometimes, if things aren't in your own backyard, it's easy to glaze over the facts - they just don't seem real.

 

[Mark L]

I just heard that the ring leader of the Jena 6 has been denied bail.

 

[MJS]

If one is willing to disregard the complexity of the black experience over the past 500 years on this continent, then, no. Not at all.

But, if one looks at the history of blacks in America from the Emancipation Proclamation through the late 20th century, I think nooses are, in fact, far, far worse than a gang assault.

In Israel, the phrase is "Never Again". The icon is the swastika.

In the American South, the phrase is "I have a dream". The icon is the noose.

So basically you're saying that the assault on the white youth was justified or comparable to the noose?

Additionally, I can't recall ever hearing the word 'terror' being used when swasticas have been painted on buildings, schools, etc. Vandalism is what is usually said.

 

[Kreth]

I have referenced one fight ... Fair Barn, LA, - albeit not taking place in a school ... where multiple white men - (men, aged over 20) - attacked several black studets . The resulting legal remedy was "probation" for a Mr. Justin Sloan, one of the white attackers.

That seems quite lax. Were there extenuating circumstances? Did he have a prior record? We know that a least one of the Jena 6 had a lengthy rap sheet.