Curfews For Teens: Are They The Answer?

[MJS]

Actually, that argument has been made. (Check the posts on 8/13 10:08 AM and 10:11 AM)

Well, lets take a look at things. In the 8-13, 10:08 post, I linked an article of something that is different but has a similar tone to it. As for Andrews post, I'm not going to comment on his thoughts. If you want to know his views on his posts, you can ask him.

What this comes down to is: a) the fact that everyone, yes, even the good kids, will ultimately suffer because of the actions of a few wild kids, b) that no matter what happens, someone will be upset, and c) no matter what the cops do, people will blame them, rather than take responsibility for their own actions. I can just hear it now. You seem to have no problem with your kids being out late, so God forbid something happens, I'd be willing to bet that you'd be the first one to say, "Why didn't the cops do their job and protect the public?" See, thats the problem...any parent in their right mind, wouldn't let their 12 yo kid be out at 3am.

And don't lump me into any political groups. Frankly, I am not interested in politics, and I rarely get involved in any political discussion on this forum. I'm simply saying that people piss and moan with the solutions the city comes up with, but I don't see any of the big talkers coming up with an alternative. Well, actually, you gave a few options, and I did comment on them. But lets take another look at them and perhaps you'll give some feedback.

The cameras...like I said, a good idea. But, is someone going to be watching them and get a cop there to arrest people that're engaged in criminal activity? More traffic stops...well, we already know people will cry foul over that one. Prevent guns from entering the city....ok..I"d like to hear more on this one.

What really needs to happen is stiffer penalties especially for repeat offenders. Oh but then you'll have people cry that jail isnt the answer...its rehab thats needed. And perhaps if parents took a bit more responsibility for the kids that THEY created, and kept a tighter leash on them, we wouldn't need a curfew.

 

[jkembry]

And perhaps if parents took a bit more responsibility for the kids that THEY created, and kept a tighter leash on them, we wouldn't need a curfew.

This is the issue....responsible parents. I have no kids...mainly because of this. I am very selfish with my time (wife feels the same way) and the time I spend with my wife. Children would take a lot of time that my wife and I were not ready to give up in order to raise them right and to be responsible for them until their majority.

 

[Archangel M]

Kids wandering the streets in the wee hours is a recipe for crime. I wish my area had one.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hartford, CT. has, for quite some time, had a serious issue with violence and drugs. Now, this is nothing new, especially in a large cities. In an effort to curb this violence, the city has put a curfew for kids 18 and younger into effect. I'm going to post a few articles for reference.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/statewire/hc-11160616.apds.m0467.bc-ct--hartaug11,0,4402241.story

http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-hartford-curfew,0,5733253.story


One thing that caught my eye was this:

"The ACLU of Connecticut opposes juvenile curfews because they're essentially a violation of fundamental rights of innocent people," he said. "Curfews essentially are placing an entire demographic, in this case, youth, under house arrest for the inappropriate actions of a few."

It should be a no brainer that the ACLU would get involved. Now, while it would be stereotyping to say that every 15, 16 and 18 yo. is a violent thug, one has to ask, why would a 15yo, regardless of the day of the week, be out at 1am? I doubt they're coming home from a job. Could they be visiting a friend? Possibly, but at that hour?

This program is supposed to run for 30 days. It'll be interesting to see how things work out.

Thoughts on the program?

When I was in High School, there was a curfew in effect technically. In actuality it was there only if you were caught doing something wrong or if the police wanted a reason to pull a person over. The curfew was 11:00 PM for 16 and younger and 12 Midnight for 17.

I know for school dances sometimes if I gave people rides home in my van then I would not get home until after 1:00 AM even if the dance got out at 11:30 PM or 12 Midnight. The distances involved just meant there was time on the road going down farm roads or two lane roads taking people home.

There were times when we would go to a movie on the weekend and it would be a late movie. We would then get something to eat to make sure we were not on the road from 2 to 3 AM and then we would go home. But, even without cell phones our parents knew where we were and could find us.

 

[punisher73]

OK, this is one of those topics where there is no easy answer. To me it is good to have the law on the books so if as the police you come across a group of kids that are acting like they are up to no good or it's not safe for them to be out you have something to take them home and get them off of the streets.

One of the other posts reminded me of this that I got sent today.

Kind of sums up to me why curfews are a good idea

 

[Andrew Green]

To me it is good to have the law on the books so if as the police you come across a group of kids that are acting like they are up to no good or it's not safe for them to be out you have something to take them home and get them off of the streets.

If they are up to no good, as in committing crimes, then the law is unnecessary.

If the law is simply to give police a reason to intervene and detain them when they "might" be committing a crime later, or maybe already have but there is no evidence... That just seems like a slippery slope. What happens when the law gets changed to 21 and under? Then anyone that looks 25 and under because its impossible to tell who is 21 and under based on appearance, especially late at night. Might as well just make it a general rule, as you said, its also for their own protection.

I'm not comfortable with any law that restricts freedom to protect a person from themselves, especially when they aren't in any real danger.

 

[MJS]

So, I'm at work tonight, and I take a number of calls from some city residents who live in one of the housing projects. Now, just because someone lives there, doesnt mean they're all bad apples, but those people are lumped in with the rest.

Anyways...the complaint is that its 10:45pm and that there're a group of kids playing basketball outside and being very loud. A few more calls come in regarding this, and then one from a resident who said that she attempted to ask them to quiet down, only to have the ball thrown at her. Didn't hit her, as she was inside her unit.

Time goes on and more calls come in with people saying that some of the original callers actually went outside and now there was a physical fight.


Hmmm...and I have to wonder...where were the parents of the kids during all this? Almost 11pm and people are trying to get some sleep, only to be kept awake by kids who should be in bed themselves, or at the least, in their own house.

Were they initially engaging in criminal activity? No. However, what good reason was there to be out at that hour? Again, where were the parents during all this?

 

[jks9199]

Anyways...the complaint is that its 10:45pm and that there're a group of kids playing basketball outside and being very loud. A few more calls come in regarding this, and then one from a resident who said that she attempted to ask them to quiet down, only to have the ball thrown at her. Didn't hit her, as she was inside her unit.

Time goes on and more calls come in with people saying that some of the original callers actually went outside and now there was a physical fight.


Hmmm...and I have to wonder...where were the parents of the kids during all this? Almost 11pm and people are trying to get some sleep, only to be kept awake by kids who should be in bed themselves, or at the least, in their own house.

Were they initially engaging in criminal activity? No. However, what good reason was there to be out at that hour? Again, where were the parents during all this?

Actually, at least in my jurisdiction and most of the nearby ones, they ARE committing crimes. And that's without curfew laws...

1. Trespass; depending on where the basketball court is, they're trespassing. Most parks close at dark, and, in VA, it's illegal to be on school property after dark unless you're there for a school activity.

2. Disturbing the peace/noise violation; they're disturbing the reasonable peace and tranquility of the community by playing basketball and making noise so late at night.

3. Assault; several possible specific charges, between the fight and throwing the ball at the house. In fact, I could argue for a felony charge of missile at an occupied dwelling...

4. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor; for the parents AND anyone over 18 in the group, if there are kids out there. Why? Because they're letting the kids be in a situation that could render them delinquent (breaking the law...)

Yeah... if you know the code book, there's lots of fun things you can do to knuckleheads.

But, to me, the key is your question: Where are the parents?

 

[MJS]

Actually, at least in my jurisdiction and most of the nearby ones, they ARE committing crimes. And that's without curfew laws...

1. Trespass; depending on where the basketball court is, they're trespassing. Most parks close at dark, and, in VA, it's illegal to be on school property after dark unless you're there for a school activity.

2. Disturbing the peace/noise violation; they're disturbing the reasonable peace and tranquility of the community by playing basketball and making noise so late at night.

3. Assault; several possible specific charges, between the fight and throwing the ball at the house. In fact, I could argue for a felony charge of missile at an occupied dwelling...

4. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor; for the parents AND anyone over 18 in the group, if there are kids out there. Why? Because they're letting the kids be in a situation that could render them delinquent (breaking the law...)

Yeah... if you know the code book, there's lots of fun things you can do to knuckleheads.

But, to me, the key is your question: Where are the parents?

1) My apologies, as I should've been a bit more clear on that. According to one of the callers, this was one of those portable hoops. It was moved from one location to the other.

2-4) Yup, good points, that I didn't think of. Its good that you pointed this out however, because it seems that some in this thread keep talking about criminal activity, and I can only guess its things such as armed robbery, drugs, etc., yet here we have the things you mention. I go back to my question...where the hell are the parents?

 

[jks9199]

1) My apologies, as I should've been a bit more clear on that. According to one of the callers, this was one of those portable hoops. It was moved from one location to the other.

2-4) Yup, good points, that I didn't think of. Its good that you pointed this out however, because it seems that some in this thread keep talking about criminal activity, and I can only guess its things such as armed robbery, drugs, etc., yet here we have the things you mention. I go back to my question...where the hell are the parents?

Then, if it was in the street, we have the offense of playing in the highway (46.2-932)...

But -- as you say, the real problem is that parents are allowing a situation like this to develop, if they're kids. If they're young adults... it's that they were apparently never taught to respect others... so it still falls on the parents.

 

[Andrew Green]

I can't claim to be fully innocent of late night basketball games when I was younger. Never through the ball at anyone that complained though... that usually ended the game.

Somedays the only time you could play was after dark, Winnipeg can get pretty hot in the summer.

10:45 would have been nothing, after 11:00 you are expected to be a little quieter though.

But basketball? of all the things teenagers could be doing, playing basketball is not really a major problem is it?

Parks don't close at dark either, that wouldn't make sense here, in the winter it's dark by the time a lot of people get home from work. There may be a timed closure though, likely 11pm (possibly 9pm) but I don't think its enforced, unless there is a problem.

 

[MJS]

I can't claim to be fully innocent of late night basketball games when I was younger. Never through the ball at anyone that complained though... that usually ended the game.

Somedays the only time you could play was after dark, Winnipeg can get pretty hot in the summer.

10:45 would have been nothing, after 11:00 you are expected to be a little quieter though.

But basketball? of all the things teenagers could be doing, playing basketball is not really a major problem is it?

Parks don't close at dark either, that wouldn't make sense here, in the winter it's dark by the time a lot of people get home from work. There may be a timed closure though, likely 11pm (possibly 9pm) but I don't think its enforced, unless there is a problem.

So because kids want to play basketball, people should have to stay awake for that? Come on now. Have a little respect and consideration for your neighbors. Apparently these kids dont! And to the point that they throw a ball at someone...come on Andrew...are you actually saying thats ok?

 

[Mimir]

Being a parent, I have ask this: why are these kids's parent allowing them to be out at 1am?

 

[Archangel M]

Some parents were raised as brats and are raising more brats.

Fruit-Tree

 

[MJS]

Being a parent, I have ask this: why are these kids's parent allowing them to be out at 1am?

This is a question that I've asked a few times myself in this thread, and I don't recall getting an answer. Seems like the people who're against the curfew are the ones that see no issue with letting their kids stay out until all hours. I've yet to see a reason that justifies having a young kid stay out until 1, 2 3am.

Some parents were raised as brats and are raising more brats.

Fruit-Tree

Yup, just like I say, kids learn what they live.

 

[Empty Hands]

Seems like the people who're against the curfew are the ones that see no issue with letting their kids stay out until all hours.

That is false. I don't want the government randomly stopping my kid in the street and searching them for drugs, but that doesn't mean I want my kids on drugs or wouldn't search their rooms. Same with the curfew. Parental action and governmental action are not the same thing. We confuse the two at our peril.

 

[MJS]

That is false. I don't want the government randomly stopping my kid in the street and searching them for drugs, but that doesn't mean I want my kids on drugs or wouldn't search their rooms. Same with the curfew. Parental action and governmental action are not the same thing. We confuse the two at our peril.

Who said anything about searching them for drugs? BTW, I still haven't seen a good reason for a 13, 14 or 15 yo to be out at 3am.

 

[Empty Hands]

Who said anything about searching them for drugs?

It was just another example to get my point across.

BTW, I still haven't seen a good reason for a 13, 14 or 15 yo to be out at 3am.

Someone posted a list of something like 10 or 12 reasons. In any case, my point would be that nothing needs to be justified to the government. The burden should always be on the government to justify their impositions on our freedom. I don't need a good reason to be out at 3 AM or drive through a bad neighborhood (martial law thread) in order to avoid being detained by the police. America isn't supposed to work that way.

Again, that doesn't mean I approve of kids being out at 1 AM or I would be fine with it with my kids. Government =! Parents.

 

[MJS]

It was just another example to get my point across.

Point taken, altough its not really pertaining to this thread.

Someone posted a list of something like 10 or 12 reasons. In any case, my point would be that nothing needs to be justified to the government. The burden should always be on the government to justify their impositions on our freedom. I don't need a good reason to be out at 3 AM or drive through a bad neighborhood (martial law thread) in order to avoid being detained by the police. America isn't supposed to work that way.

Again, that doesn't mean I approve of kids being out at 1 AM or I would be fine with it with my kids. Government =! Parents.

And as I said in a few other threads, the good kids will end up suffering because of the bad apples. So, just so we're clear on this, you see nothing wrong with a 13yo being out on a Wed night at 3am?

 

[Empty Hands]

So, just so we're clear on this, you see nothing wrong with a 13yo being out on a Wed night at 3am?

I see plenty wrong with it, barring unusual circumstances. I just don't think it's the government's job to deal with it.