Is this Kyokushin school a mcdojo?

[JR 137]

That's what I really want for my program. I'd love for a core group to have a real sense of community.

We do several things that I think brings us together. They weren’t done in my previous dojo nor many others that I’ve seen. Here’s a few examples...

Dojo cleanup day
- About quarterly. We get together and clean the place up. Everything comes off the walls and gets dusted, the mats get a thorough washing, mirrors get windexed. One of the guys has a hardwood floor washer/vacuum. Stuff like that. It reinforces that taking pride in the place mentality. No one’s required to, but no one skips out. Parents who don’t train even lend a helping hand. In a commercial dojo, this wouldn’t go over well IMO.

- Annual Christmas party
Everyone brings something to eat or drink. Black belts bring an inexpensive wrapped boy or girl gift or two. Kids (including kids that don’t train but parents do) get a ticket, and pick a gift when their ticket is drawn. Whatever toys are left over go to toys for tots charity. It’s a couple hour Sunday afternoon get together at the dojo. Nothing elaborate.

-Black belt dinner
My CI and his wife host the black belts and their spouses at their house. I haven’t been there (not bb yet), but it seems to be a BBQ or the like. I’m sure people bring a few things to eat or drink out of courtesy.

- Annual beach training
Black belts meet at CI’s house early in the morning and do a short workout. I’ve been told it’s like a black belt review class. All karateka meet at the local beach around 10 am we have a workout. We rent a pavilion and have a picnic afterwards. We pay about $10 a head and bring side dishes/desserts. Any extra money goes to charity.

With all this stuff, everyone helps set up, break down, etc. People volunteer to do certain things or bring certain things. Nothing’s mandatory nor expected. I’ve never heard anyone complain about anything.

None of this is elaborate or over the top. It’s just us getting together. The only times things get a bit formal is when it’s a special time like our 30th anniversary during this year’s beach training. Other than a few awards, speeches, and catered food rather than the norm, that was pretty much business as usual too. We had several out of town guests and Nakamura and Charles Martin were there, so we rolled out the red carpet a little bit.

I don’t think these things would be the same in a commercial dojo. People would probably look at them as just another way to get money from them. And they’d probably get overblown too. I think it’s the little stuff like this that truly makes the sense of family.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We do several things that I think brings us together. They weren’t done in my previous dojo nor many others that I’ve seen. Here’s a few examples...

I'm replying to each item, because....well, let's be honest, because I like to post.

Dojo cleanup day
- About quarterly. We get together and clean the place up. Everything comes off the walls and gets dusted, the mats get a thorough washing, mirrors get windexed. One of the guys has a hardwood floor washer/vacuum. Stuff like that. It reinforces that taking pride in the place mentality. No one’s required to, but no one skips out. Parents who don’t train even lend a helping hand. In a commercial dojo, this wouldn’t go over well IMO.

I actually think it would still go over okay. Back when I was going through the ranks, there was an expectation that everyone would help keep the dojo clean. It wasn't required, but by the time you got to purple belt (mid-upper colored rank), it was considered as part of what made someone a good student. By brown, it was almost a requirement. For black, if your name didn't show on the cleaning sign-off list regularly, you wouldn't test. When I was senior brown (that's who had traditionally overseen that function), I managed to get most folks pretty active in clean-up, and that carried for the entire rest of the time I was there. Set the expectation, and most folks will participate. Most people like feeling useful. I like the idea of regular gatherings for this in a dedicated space.

- Annual Christmas party
Everyone brings something to eat or drink. Black belts bring an inexpensive wrapped boy or girl gift or two. Kids (including kids that don’t train but parents do) get a ticket, and pick a gift when their ticket is drawn. Whatever toys are left over go to toys for tots charity. It’s a couple hour Sunday afternoon get together at the dojo. Nothing elaborate.

We never did that (and they still don't at my old school). The instructor in the middle of SC does things like that (an annual BBQ at a student's lake house, for instance), and the difference in community is noticeable. I was invited one year, as I'd been training there while working a project in the area. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it due to travel for another client.

-Black belt dinner
My CI and his wife host the black belts and their spouses at their house. I haven’t been there (not bb yet), but it seems to be a BBQ or the like. I’m sure people bring a few things to eat or drink out of courtesy.

This is done rarely. When someone is promoted to BB, there was often (not always) a get-together at a sushi place sometime later. That's a rare promotion (takes most folks 7-10 years, so only a handful in a school of <100). Sometimes when there's a seminar or something like that, as well. Rarely organized.

- Annual beach training
Black belts meet at CI’s house early in the morning and do a short workout. I’ve been told it’s like a black belt review class. All karateka meet at the local beach around 10 am we have a workout. We rent a pavilion and have a picnic afterwards. We pay about $10 a head and bring side dishes/desserts. Any extra money goes to charity.

The closest thing I could think of to do here would be at a local park or something. Nearest beach is 4 hours away. But I like the idea. I think this only works, though, once you start building some community. Even with the small program I had, if I'd scheduled something outside normal class time, chances are almost nobody would have come.

With all this stuff, everyone helps set up, break down, etc. People volunteer to do certain things or bring certain things. Nothing’s mandatory nor expected. I’ve never heard anyone complain about anything.

None of this is elaborate or over the top. It’s just us getting together. The only times things get a bit formal is when it’s a special time like our 30th anniversary during this year’s beach training. Other than a few awards, speeches, and catered food rather than the norm, that was pretty much business as usual too. We had several out of town guests and Nakamura and Charles Martin were there, so we rolled out the red carpet a little bit.

I don’t think these things would be the same in a commercial dojo. People would probably look at them as just another way to get money from them. And they’d probably get overblown too. I think it’s the little stuff like this that truly makes the sense of family.

I think the community starts in the dojo, and if it's built right, folks see the rest as more community. I don't think it's a strong suit for my primary instructor (he's not very people-y, and doesn't build strong relationships with even his senior students), so it didn't go far at his school. And his is a side business for him. Down in the middle of SC, there's a full-time instructor who makes his living off the school, and they have a much stronger sense of community there.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You said everything I was thinking, only better

Regarding birthday parties...

My CI said several students’ parents have asked him if he does them. He said for the ones he knows and trusts he tells them they can use the space, just clean up and lock up when they’re done. Meaning he’ll give them the keys and let them have a party there, but he’s not “doing a birthday party.” They got his subtlety and none of them took him up on it.

Perhaps im just tired, but im missing the subtlety here. Why did no one take him up on it/what was he trying to say?

 

[drop bear]

I've never worn any of the high-end gis, so I'm curious. The only somewhat expensive one I ever bought was from Bujin Design (who mostly specialize in Aikido gear). I have a preference for Judo gis, and have found I quite like the single-weave Gladiator (in black) from Asian World. I'm pretty sure it's not nearly as nice, but have no idea how. At wholesale, I think I pay about $40 for mine, but I've been wondering what I'm missing. Surely there's some reason I need a new gi. Has to be.

From a bjj perspective the better gis fit better. Not as cardboardy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

From a bjj perspective the better gis fit better. Not as cardboardy.

I'm not even sure what "better" is, as far as fit. I went most of my training career wearing cheap gis in size 5 (something close to size 3 in BJJ, I think), and taking up both sleeves and legs. Baggy things, they were, but it's what I got used to. Now, I wear a fairly shapeless Judo-style gi. And I wouldn't say it's "cardboardy". I'd say it's like wearing a carpet. And folding it is a lot like folding a carpet. Heavy, unyielding, and nothing I really dislike about it. I still really want an excuse to try a more expensive gi, so maybe the cardboardiness is my excuse.

 

[_Simon_]

Semi-late to the discussion, but yep what was previously said, it's rare that a Kyokushin dojo is McDojofied. It has a strong philosophy and foundation, and it's one of the things I admire about it. You can go anywhere in the world and it's one big family, and they all train hard together in the same manner more or less. Some dojos may be less about the grit and hardness and may be more technical, but still it's pretty rare for there to be a "McDojo."

Hope it goes well!

Edit: And yes, the website was bizarre to me haha. Did feel a bit like a page selling some pre-workout supplements or training e-book or something, but that's the only odd thing here, best way is to go check out the dojo yourself and see how they train.

 

[JR 137]

Perhaps im just tired, but im missing the subtlety here. Why did no one take him up on it/what was he trying to say?

He basically told them he’s not going to be their birthday party entertainer.

 

[JR 137]

I'm replying to each item, because....well, let's be honest, because I like to post.


I actually think it would still go over okay. Back when I was going through the ranks, there was an expectation that everyone would help keep the dojo clean. It wasn't required, but by the time you got to purple belt (mid-upper colored rank), it was considered as part of what made someone a good student. By brown, it was almost a requirement. For black, if your name didn't show on the cleaning sign-off list regularly, you wouldn't test. When I was senior brown (that's who had traditionally overseen that function), I managed to get most folks pretty active in clean-up, and that carried for the entire rest of the time I was there. Set the expectation, and most folks will participate. Most people like feeling useful. I like the idea of regular gatherings for this in a dedicated space.


We never did that (and they still don't at my old school). The instructor in the middle of SC does things like that (an annual BBQ at a student's lake house, for instance), and the difference in community is noticeable. I was invited one year, as I'd been training there while working a project in the area. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it due to travel for another client.


This is done rarely. When someone is promoted to BB, there was often (not always) a get-together at a sushi place sometime later. That's a rare promotion (takes most folks 7-10 years, so only a handful in a school of <100). Sometimes when there's a seminar or something like that, as well. Rarely organized.


The closest thing I could think of to do here would be at a local park or something. Nearest beach is 4 hours away. But I like the idea. I think this only works, though, once you start building some community. Even with the small program I had, if I'd scheduled something outside normal class time, chances are almost nobody would have come.


I think the community starts in the dojo, and if it's built right, folks see the rest as more community. I don't think it's a strong suit for my primary instructor (he's not very people-y, and doesn't build strong relationships with even his senior students), so it didn't go far at his school. And his is a side business for him. Down in the middle of SC, there's a full-time instructor who makes his living off the school, and they have a much stronger sense of community there.

The black belt dinner is an annual get together for all the black belts, not a dinner for when someone’s promoted.

I’m pretty sure a commercial dojo can have a strong sense of community/family. I just think it’s probably a lot harder for them. Especially large professional dojos. Or better yet, the expensive and large dojos where people are nickle-and-dimed. I think people start thinking “great, yet another way to get more money out of us.” Nakamura’s dojo is pretty big, and being right near the Flatiron Building, it ain’t cheap. But he’s got a pretty strong family atmosphere.

Edit: The things my CI does pretty much come from Nakamura. My CI does them the way he wants to, but Nakamura is big on the Seido dojos doing these things. Nakamura feels things like this are what makes it feel personal rather than a business. My CI doesn’t do them out of obligation by any means though. I remember talking to him about it a while back. I told him my former dojo didn’t do any of this stuff. We had a tight knit group of a bunch of us, but it wasn’t really the same. He said he likes it because it makes it all personal rather than being business-like.

 

[JR 137]

I looked more into the instructor he’s from New York he moved to Dallas a year ago. He’s a 4th dan Kyokushin blackbelt with an “old school style” emphasis. He seems legit. I’m looking forward to training under him.

Sorry I’m late replying to this. I got sidetracked a bit

I googled his name and Kyokushin. He’s been around, in a good way. I didn’t read everything, but he’s seemingly got plenty of experience. As you said/implied, he’s relatively new to the Dallas area, so he’s just starting over in that sense.

I wonder who he was under in NY. I wonder which IKO he was/is affiliated with. Kyokushin splintered quite a bit after Oyama’s death in 1994. There was a ton of politics involved, and it got really ugly. Most of that dust has settled and the CIs have put that behind them. But for quite some time different groups wanted nothing to do with each other and CIs were forced to choose who they followed. Many were told if they had anything to do with people from other Kyokushin groups, they’d get kicked out. It got really nasty. Not as much here in the States as in Japan and Europe, but knowing people in Kyokushin here, they said it was pretty uncomfortable for a while.

This has no effect on you as a student. And probably didn’t effect him much as a student back then. I just find it interesting to figure out who came from which organization. They pretty much all follow the same syllabus and claim they’re sticking to the real ideals Oyama set forth.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The black belt dinner is an annual get together for all the black belts, not a dinner for when someone’s promoted.

I’m pretty sure a commercial dojo can have a strong sense of community/family. I just think it’s probably a lot harder for them. Especially large professional dojos. Or better yet, the expensive and large dojos where people are nickle-and-dimed. I think people start thinking “great, yet another way to get more money out of us.” Nakamura’s dojo is pretty big, and being right near the Flatiron Building, it ain’t cheap. But he’s got a pretty strong family atmosphere.

Edit: The things my CI does pretty much come from Nakamura. My CI does them the way he wants to, but Nakamura is big on the Seido dojos doing these things. Nakamura feels things like this are what makes it feel personal rather than a business. My CI doesn’t do them out of obligation by any means though. I remember talking to him about it a while back. I told him my former dojo didn’t do any of this stuff. We had a tight knit group of a bunch of us, but it wasn’t really the same. He said he likes it because it makes it all personal rather than being business-like.

I agree - the way the business is approached can hurt or help the sense of community.

In any case, I like the way Nakamura seems to have worked to instill a sense of community across the association.

 

[JR 137]

I agree - the way the business is approached can hurt or help the sense of community.

In any case, I like the way Nakamura seems to have worked to instill a sense of community across the association.

Nakamura’s annual black belt dinner is more formal. They wear a jacket/blazer, rent a restaurant, etc. I’ve heard it’s a bit expensive, being NYC and all. The attendees pay a flat fee, but Nakamura/Seido pick up the rest as it doesn’t cover the entire bill. A lot of out of town people attend, including my CI and his wife most years.

We’re more of a back yard BBQ group. I think they did a restaurant once or twice but abandoned that format.

Nakamura is one of the most personable guys I’ve met at his rank/status. He makes it a point to know everyone’s face and name. I’ve met him a handful of times and took a class at his dojo once. He’s always spoken to me like he knows exactly who I am. He typically has to ask me my name when he first sees me, but then he has that “that’s right, how’ve you been?” look.

It’s a change from a lot of people I’ve met from that era. A lot of them won’t give you the time of day if you’re not sandan or higher, and/or unless your teacher formally introduces you. I always found that odd. He’s the opposite of that. He’s really big on building that family atmosphere with everyone.

 

[_Simon_]

I wonder who he was under in NY. I wonder which IKO he was/is affiliated with. Kyokushin splintered quite a bit after Oyama’s death in 1994. There was a ton of politics involved, and it got really ugly. Most of that dust has settled and the CIs have put that behind them. But for quite some time different groups wanted nothing to do with each other and CIs were forced to choose who they followed. Many were told if they had anything to do with people from other Kyokushin groups, they’d get kicked out. It got really nasty. Not as much here in the States as in Japan and Europe, but knowing people in Kyokushin here, they said it was pretty uncomfortable for a while.

This has no effect on you as a student. And probably didn’t effect him much as a student back then. I just find it interesting to figure out who came from which organization. They pretty much all follow the same syllabus and claim they’re sticking to the real ideals Oyama set forth.

Yeah was a strange time from what I read... I honestly still don't even know the difference syllabus/training-wise between the different IKOs, or even if they are that different at all apart from who runs it!

There was that and even within branches this still happens. In my old club there were a few dojos/instructors which left our branch as they weren't a fan of how the branch chief was doing things. So they joined other groups or went independent. Would be funny if it was all about simply how to do a certain move in Pinan Ni or something XD

 

[JR 137]

Yeah was a strange time from what I read... I honestly still don't even know the difference syllabus/training-wise between the different IKOs, or even if they are that different at all apart from who runs it!

There was that and even within branches this still happens. In my old club there were a few dojos/instructors which left our branch as they weren't a fan of how the branch chief was doing things. So they joined other groups or went independent. Would be funny if it was all about simply how to do a certain move in Pinan Ni or something XD

I’m pretty sure the different IKOs are basically who’s leading them. One or two have changed their name, ie Royama’s IKO is now ShinKyokushin. Or was that Midori’s? The major ones off the top of my head are Matsui (IKO1), Midori, Royama, and Oyams’s daughter Kirustina (I think they’re IKO Sosai). There’s several others too. I’m not sure where Arneil’s organization fits into things.

At the end of the day, I’m pretty sure they’re doing more or less the same thing, just different head honchos and competing in different tournaments. I think they all get along well at this point, except last I knew they despised Matsui and basically aligned against him. I think that had a lot to do with Matsui trying to claim sole ownership of the Kyokushin name and Kanji, and trying to sue over it. He lost that battle.

It was all some really sleazy stuff. It doesn’t really effect the students as far as I know.

 

[Buka]

Learn Karate in Dallas, Texas | Dallas Kyokushin Karate
Don’t know much about the instructor or his rank. He rents out at dance studio for Cleese’s so it seems. Do you guys think this is a mcdojo?

My educated gues would be no, not a McD.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I go away for 1 week and a Kyokushin discussion starts up without me, ha, ha. I would be very surprised if this dojo would be a McDojo. As many posters have already said Kyokushin doesn't typically lend itself to being a McDojo. If a dojo was operating like a McDojo, their students would learn very quickly at the first tournament they entered that their school would not be up to snuff.

I do not believe he is not part of Shinkyokushin (Midori, Shihan's group) nor do I believe he would be part of Royama, Shihan's group either as their patch is noticeably different from the Kyokushin patch Duvall Sensei wears. A quick search in google tells me he was part of Kyokushinkai or IKO1 (Matsui, Shihan's group).

I wouldn't worry too much about the politics. Go take a few classes and try it out for yourself. It should be hard training to get your body accustomed to bareknuckle sparring. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Brandon Miller]

Thanks fellas! I love my Gi by the way it’s gorgeous!

 

[JR 137]

I go away for 1 week and a Kyokushin discussion starts up without me, ha, ha. I would be very surprised if this dojo would be a McDojo. As many posters have already said Kyokushin doesn't typically lend itself to being a McDojo. If a dojo was operating like a McDojo, their students would learn very quickly at the first tournament they entered that their school would not be up to snuff.

I do not believe he is not part of Shinkyokushin (Midori, Shihan's group) nor do I believe he would be part of Royama, Shihan's group either as their patch is noticeably different from the Kyokushin patch Duvall Sensei wears. A quick search in google tells me he was part of Kyokushinkai or IKO1 (Matsui, Shihan's group).

I wouldn't worry too much about the politics. Go take a few classes and try it out for yourself. It should be hard training to get your body accustomed to bareknuckle sparring. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Good call with the patches on his gi; I didn’t think of that.

Being from the NYC area, my initial instinct was IKO1 “Matsui” as there’s a strong presence there. I think the US IKO1 headquarters is in Manhattan.

 

[Brandon Miller]

Good call with the patches on his gi; I didn’t think of that.

Being from the NYC area, my initial instinct was IKO1 “Matsui” as there’s a strong presence there. I think the US IKO1 headquarters is in Manhattan.

JR I got my Gi it’s amazing but it feels a little big even though I bought mine according to the size chart. How much does it shrink when you wash it?
It’s 100% cotton I believe.

 

[DKK]

I was checking the net and stumbled on this site. I have seen it before couple of years ago or maybe something similar. Very good site for info. I wanted to mention that the Kyokushin in Dallas is not a MCDOJO. I know because I teach the classes. I would like to invite all to come and try the classes out. especially our Saturday class. I would like to possibly do a question and answer session (interview) about me and Dallas Kyokushin Karate. Thank you all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was checking the net and stumbled on this site. I have seen it before couple of years ago or maybe something similar. Very good site for info. I wanted to mention that the Kyokushin in Dallas is not a MCDOJO. I know because I teach the classes. I would like to invite all to come and try the classes out. especially our Saturday class. I would like to possibly do a question and answer session (interview) about me and Dallas Kyokushin Karate. Thank you all.

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