Having trouble picking an art and school in Dallas. Need advice.

[Brandon Miller]

Have you ever seen him post anything else?

And Dallas is a major metropolitan area, so I’m quite sure there’s an American Kenpo school somewhere relatively close.

I don’t think I’m really interested in kenpo. I’m more into a grappling art or full contact stand up art like Kyokushin or its off shoots.

 

[Brandon Miller]

Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?

Only once you have a solid foundation in one or the other. For a beginner I think there’s too much overlap and contradictions within that overlap.

You’ve been asking advice for a while and have gotten plenty of feedback. You have some good options to choose fro. Go ahead and sign up for one of those schools. If you can’t decide, go with the one that’s closer to your house. If they’re tied for distance, go with the one that’s cheaper. If they’re tied on that, then flip a coin or roll a die.

Get in there, train, and see how you like it. If you train at one school for a while and realize you don’t enjoy it, there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another school or another art.

 

[Brandon Miller]

Only once you have a solid foundation in one or the other. For a beginner I think there’s too much overlap and contradictions within that overlap.

You’ve been asking advice for a while and have gotten plenty of feedback. You have some good options to choose fro. Go ahead and sign up for one of those schools. If you can’t decide, go with the one that’s closer to your house. If they’re tied for distance, go with the one that’s cheaper. If they’re tied on that, then flip a coin or roll a die.

Get in there, train, and see how you like it. If you train at one school for a while and realize you don’t enjoy it, there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another school or another art.

I have competed in Amatuer boxing and Amatuer mma along with no gi bjj comp. the kyokushin school is the closest school to me. I think I might go with kyokushin since it’s the closest school to me. Blend it with boxing on the side and jump into the kickboxing scene. Then later down the road as a hobbyist I’ll pick up a grappling art while I still stay active in kyokushin.

 

[Yokozuna514]

What separates kyokushin from the other arts I mentioned?

To be clear, I have trained in Judo and Kyokushin but have never studied Sambo. From what I understand Sambo is a full contact sport so I expect it will require you to get in good physical condition to participate fully. Judo is also a great sport that requires its practitioners to be in good physical shape to be able to perform the techniques against non-compliant opponents. Neither Judo nor Sambo require you to work on katas or forms.

What separates Kyokushin from the the other arts is that Kyokushin has a sport side as well as a non-sport side. The curriculum is such that anyone from the age fo 4 to 64 (or older) can continue to train in aspects of the art. Sure you could probably say the same for judo and sambo but I am not sure how many people over the age of 40 still participate in either sport. You still see many 40+ veterans competing at Kyokushin tournaments either in kata, semi-knockdown or knockdown at the local, regional and sometimes at the national level (if the category exists). There are also millions of people training in Kyokushin all over the world so the chances of finding another Kyokushin or offshoot dojo is very good.

Like I said, I am partial to Kyokushin. To me, it has all the elements that I want out of a MA. I bring my dogi with me where ever I travel because I know I can typically find a dojo in the city where I can train and generally folks are happy to train with others especially if they come from another country.

 

[JR 137]

I don’t think I’m really interested in kenpo. I’m more into a grappling art or full contact stand up art like Kyokushin or its off shoots.

My post you quoted was in response to the guy who’s posted practically nothing but “train American Kenpo” and not towards you.

 

[Brandon Miller]

To be clear, I have trained in Judo and Kyokushin but have never studied Sambo. From what I understand Sambo is a full contact sport so I expect it will require you to get in good physical condition to participate fully. Judo is also a great sport that requires its practitioners to be in good physical shape to be able to perform the techniques against non-compliant opponents. Neither Judo nor Sambo require you to work on katas or forms.

What separates Kyokushin from the the other arts is that Kyokushin has a sport side as well as a non-sport side. The curriculum is such that anyone from the age fo 4 to 64 (or older) can continue to train in aspects of the art. Sure you could probably say the same for judo and sambo but I am not sure how many people over the age of 40 still participate in either sport. You still see many 40+ veterans competing at Kyokushin tournaments either in kata, semi-knockdown or knockdown at the local, regional and sometimes at the national level (if the category exists). There are also millions of people training in Kyokushin all over the world so the chances of finding another Kyokushin or offshoot dojo is very good.

Like I said, I am partial to Kyokushin. To me, it has all the elements that I want out of a MA. I bring my dogi with me where ever I travel because I know I can typically find a dojo in the city where I can train and generally folks are happy to train with others especially if they come from another country.

Very well said. I agree with you on for the most part you can find a kyokushin dojo or an off shoot in most cities so the availability to train wherever you go is good. I’m a huge fan of kyokushin. I took a few Classes at Dallas Kyokushin where I live and I like the balance of the art as well it definitely satisfies my needs in wanting an art that toughens you up and gives you a good balance of tradition and hard contact and sparring. I’m thinking I’m going to choose to go back to the Kyokushin school since it’s the closest school to me in the list of schools I mentioned above in my original post. I’m going to take a long life journey in Kyokushin and cross train with some boxing on the side and try and compete in knockdown as well as kickboxing while I’m still in my early 30’s. When I’m done competing I’ll pick up a grappling art as a hobbyist and cross train that while I continue my Kyokushin journey into my later years. I think that’s a good plan for me.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?

It can be. I know a few folks that crosstrain both. Something to consider is that there is no face punching in Kyokushin and there are typically no gloves worn in knockdown (the only equipment you can wear is a mouthpiece and a cup). Boxing also encourages level changes that can be a disaster in Kyokushin as this can result to bringing the head closer to kicking range. I wouldn't discourage the cross training in both but you need know that the reflexes developed in boxing may not good good for Kyokushin and vice versa. You will need to keep them separate if you want to do well in both at the same time.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Very well said. I agree with you on for the most part you can find a kyokushin dojo or an off shoot in most cities so the availability to train wherever you go is good. I’m a huge fan of kyokushin. I took a few Classes at Dallas Kyokushin where I live and I like the balance of the art as well it definitely satisfies my needs in wanting an art that toughens you up and gives you a good balance of tradition and hard contact and sparring. I’m thinking I’m going to choose to go back to the Kyokushin school since it’s the closest school to me in the list of schools I mentioned above in my original post. I’m going to take a long life journey in Kyokushin and cross train with some boxing on the side and try and compete in knockdown as well as kickboxing while I’m still in my early 30’s. When I’m done competing I’ll pick up a grappling art as a hobbyist and cross train that while I continue my Kyokushin journey into my later years. I think that’s a good plan for me.

Sounds like a good direction and look forward to following your Kyokushin journey. You never know, perhaps we will meet up in a tournament one day. I have met a few people from the old Kyokushin4life forum and it is always interesting to train with people that you have spoken with on the interwebs. Good luck with the training !

 

[JR 137]

Sounds like a good direction and look forward to following your Kyokushin journey. You never know, perhaps we will meet up in a tournament one day. I have met a few people from the old Kyokushin4life forum and it is always interesting to train with people that you have spoken with on the interwebs. Good luck with the training !

There were a lot of good people on that forum. No idea why people stopped posting. At the end it was pretty much me and one other guy (Sasha?) posting. I went to log in one day and it said the website no longer existed. A shame really. There was a lot of great information in the archives that I’d like to read and reference.

 

[JR 137]

@Brandon Miller keep in mind a lot of very successful kickboxers came from Kyokushin. Perhaps the best of them all, Andy Hug was a Kyokushin guy. He left Kyokushin and went to Seidokaikan (not Seido Juku, aka Seido) simply because Kyokushin had (or possibly still has) the rule that forbids them from fighting for money. I think that rule has been eliminated because Fransisco Filho has competed professionally and is still active in Kyokushin.

 

[Brandon Miller]

@Brandon Miller keep in mind a lot of very successful kickboxers came from Kyokushin. Perhaps the best of them all, Andy Hug was a Kyokushin guy. He left Kyokushin and went to Seidokaikan (not Seido Juku, aka Seido) simply because Kyokushin had (or possibly still has) the rule that forbids them from fighting for money. I think that rule has been eliminated because Fransisco Filho has competed professionally and is still active in Kyokushin.

Yes. I see kyokushin being a terrific base going into kickboxing competition. I feel if I compliment my kyokushin with boxing on the side I should do really well especially since I have competed in every combat sport on an Amatuer level except I have never competed in straight kickboxing before.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Do you guys think Kyokushin and boxing is a good combo to train?

without getting into the base thing, there are better kickboxing styles which blend boxing better in them than the traditional asian ones.

So if that is a goal it might be a good idea to look for generic kickboxing schools. (i dont know how U.S boxing differs from U.K though)
This isnt a experts view, but the base of Savate seems to be hands are a mix of Anglo and french boxing and kicks come from where ever so obviously works better than doing TKD to get your kicks blended in easier and faster. Just a example anyway.

(but then nothing says you cant do that anyway, its more efficiency and speed)

Not insulting the Asian styles anyway.

edit: also worth noting, bartisu merged Boxing, savate, jujitsu and i think mainly vigny cane fighting. And that seems to have worked pretty well.

 

[frank raud]

without getting into the base thing, there are better kickboxing styles which blend boxing better in them than the traditional asian ones.

So if that is a goal it might be a good idea to look for generic kickboxing schools. (i dont know how U.S boxing differs from U.K though)
This isnt a experts view, but the base of Savate seems to be hands are a mix of Anglo and french boxing and kicks come from where ever so obviously works better than doing TKD to get your kicks blended in easier and faster. Just a example anyway.

(but then nothing says you cant do that anyway, its more efficiency and speed)

Not insulting the Asian styles anyway.

edit: also worth noting, bartisu merged Boxing, savate, jujitsu and i think mainly vigny cane fighting. And that seems to have worked pretty well.

Bartitsu worked pretty well? Honestly, in what context? And are you referring to Classical Bartitsu, of a 100 years ago, or the neo-bartitsu?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Bartitsu worked pretty well? Honestly, in what context? And are you referring to Classical Bartitsu, of a 100 years ago, or the neo-bartitsu?

I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific. Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it.


Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it. And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.

 

[JR 137]

I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific. Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it.


Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it. And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.

Shouldn’t every art try to do this? At least without making said art unrecognizable from its origins.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Shouldn’t every art try to do this? At least without making said art unrecognizable from its origins.

They should, doesn't mean all of them do.

I would say most modern styles are unrecognizable unless they were made in the 50's.


I am a big supporter of using what works for you and disregarding what doesn't, which requires studying in a few styles unless it supports it. (thats at least whats accredited to JKD philosophy by most)

 

[JR 137]

They should, doesn't mean all of them do.

I would say most modern styles are unrecognizable unless they were made in the 50's.


I am a big supporter of using what works for you and disregarding what doesn't, which requires studying in a few styles unless it supports it. (thats at least whats accredited to JKD philosophy by most)

I agree and disagree with using what works for you and discarding what doesn’t. Some things need far more skill and practice to actually work for you. Some things seem like they’ll never work for you, then somehow you find yourself using it at a random time. Other things don’t make sense until years later it just clicks because you finally looked at it the right way.

There were plenty of times I used a wrestling move in a match that I didn’t use much in practice because I couldn’t get it to work during practice and/or didn’t think I could pull it off. Sometimes stuff just has a way of working without thinking about it. Within reason of course; I’m not talking about doing backflip kicks here.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I agree and disagree with using what works for you and discarding what doesn’t. Some things need far more skill and practice to actually work for you. Some things seem like they’ll never work for you, then somehow you find yourself using it at a random time. Other things don’t make sense until years later it just clicks because you finally looked at it the right way.

There were plenty of times I used a wrestling move in a match that I didn’t use much in practice because I couldn’t get it to work during practice and/or didn’t think I could pull it off. Sometimes stuff just has a way of working without thinking about it. Within reason of course; I’m not talking about doing backflip kicks here.

I would also extend and say some styles and teacher are up for more deviation in how you do things than others. so they facilitate you finding your style better. Some would shut down any deviation from the norm and the like.


Also a amusing example i have is a historical youtuber who does HEMA and he literally leans back to avoid swords now and then and it works for him. (given he has a reach advantage sometimes) Kind of that suck in the gut one.

So the dispute there is, why should he stop doing it if it works for him?

 

[frank raud]

I would say classical, but it wasnt exactly prolific. Plus if it was prolific it would mean the trump card of Juijitsu didnt work so well as a lot of people would know it and thus should know how to counter it.


Neo seems better as some have incorporated modern and improved training methods and tactics to it. And applying modern science to it. I think the goal is to keep the atmosphere of the classical one while improving it where they can.

If the classical was efficient, why did no instructor continue to teach a semblance of Bartitsu after the breakup of the club in 1902? The only influence I can think of off the top of my head is Cherpillod teaching jiu jitsu when he returned to Switzerland. Tani and Uyenishi continued to teach jiu jitsu, Vigny the cane and savate. No student that I know of attempted to continue the art. It was a great experiment that died when the club ceased to exist.