Is it part of Korean culture for Masters to be indecisive, yet stubborn at the same time?

[skribs]

My TKD Master at my previous dojang would constantly either change or forget certain curriculum items, and then scold people for doing it "wrong". For example, one punch defense he would alternate back and forth whether it was finished with a strike or limb destruction. But if he taught it as a strike one week, and you did a strike the next week, he would scold you, "Is it a strike or a break? Do it again."

In the HKD class (same Master), if you couldn't make a technique work and transitioned to another technique, he would scold you for doing the technique wrong and show you a detail or variation that would make it work. The next week, if you couldn't make a technique work and tried every variation you could think of, he would scold you for not transitioning.

He would also quite often say, "I've told you 1000 times" even if it's something we've never heard before, or something we've heard go either direction 500 times each.

The school I recently attended, I've noticed similar things. When my Dad and I (both 3rd degree) signed up, we asked if we could wear black and were told no. My Mom (2nd degree) signed up a few weeks later and was allowed to. He asked us (me and my parents) to judge testing. The first time, we didn't grade a single paper. He told us we would next time. The second time, we didn't either. Now, (I've quit and my parents are still going), he's telling them that they can't judge because they don't know his curriculum.

I've noticed this now with both Korean masters I've trained under. Is it a Master thing? Is it a Kukkiwon thing? Is it a Korean thing? That they are very particular about how things have to go, even if they change their mind.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't have a ton of experience with Korean instructors, but I suspect that this is an individual combination of traits which you just happen to encountered twice in a row.

Being authoritarian about "you must do things in exactly this particular way that I dictate because I said so" is reasonably common. It's probably more common in traditional arts and traditional hierarchical societies, but is by no means exclusive to those. I've encountered this sort of attitude in schools, jobs, and the military. (Not so much in most of the martial arts schools where I've trained, but that probably has something to do with the sort of instructors I'm attracted to.)

Being inconsistent or forgetful about what one has said before is reasonably common as well. I know plenty of people who just honestly don't have a good memory for what they said the day before.

Having the two traits together in the same person is just a really annoying combination. A boss who has both can easily create a toxic workplace. I remember in boot camp I had one drill sergeant who was sometimes like that, but I'm 80% sure he was just doing it deliberately in order to mess with us.

I'm pretty sure this unfortunate combination of personality traits is just an individual quirk and not part of any particular national culture, but I'll let those with more experience with Korean culture offer a more definitive viewpoint.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The master at my first school did the same thing. Would always change things up, sometimes intentionally, sometime not, and expect everyone to know what he was looking for. Sometimes would even have someone demonstrate, and showing the class why X is wrong, and Y is better..forgetting that he taught X a few months earlier, which is why we were doing it.

Also resulted in different instructors actively teaching different things, based on what the main instructor/owner happened to be teaching at the time that they went through the ranks.

This was not a korean art, and he was not korean. I tried multiple different schools, in the same style, and did not encounter that again. Encountered it in fencing with one instructor, but not others. I encountered 'flags' of the same thing in other schools/styles and elected not to continue there before finding out if my gut was right. Seen it outside MA, in some managers as well.

So ultimately, I think this is just a trait related to some people in authority. Funnily enough, I had someone during my eagle scout project who had to sign off/approve each step, who would do this as well. Afterwards, I learned that he does this intentionally, knowing there are bosses like that in the real world, so we can learn that frustrating part of a project plan.

 

[skribs]

I'm 80% sure he was just doing it deliberately in order to mess with us.

My Dad has suggested a lot of this could be by design, to either A) make sure we're obedient and respectful even when things suck or B) to push their authority around.

 

[skribs]

The master at my first school did the same thing. Would always change things up, sometimes intentionally, sometime not, and expect everyone to know what he was looking for. Sometimes would even have someone demonstrate, and showing the class why X is wrong, and Y is better..forgetting that he taught X a few months earlier, which is why we were doing it.

Yeah that's one thing that really frustrated me. "Why are you doing it that way?"

"Because you told me to!"

 

[MetalBoar]

I've seen this in MA schools, but in my experience with my primary Hapkido school (~5 years) I did not experience this. I've also trained with at least another dozen HKD schools for very brief periods of time, mostly as a visitor. I did not experience it with them either, but I didn't train with any of them long enough for that sort of thing to stand out unless it was super obvious and pervasive.

I trained a small amount of TSD way back in the late 80's and that instructor was humble, competent and consistent in his training methodology.

Both instructors immigrated to the US from Korea - one at a young age, the other in his late 20's or early 30's.

 

[HighKick]

My TKD Master at my previous dojang would constantly either change or forget certain curriculum items, and then scold people for doing it "wrong". For example, one punch defense he would alternate back and forth whether it was finished with a strike or limb destruction. But if he taught it as a strike one week, and you did a strike the next week, he would scold you, "Is it a strike or a break? Do it again."

In the HKD class (same Master), if you couldn't make a technique work and transitioned to another technique, he would scold you for doing the technique wrong and show you a detail or variation that would make it work. The next week, if you couldn't make a technique work and tried every variation you could think of, he would scold you for not transitioning.

He would also quite often say, "I've told you 1000 times" even if it's something we've never heard before, or something we've heard go either direction 500 times each.

The school I recently attended, I've noticed similar things. When my Dad and I (both 3rd degree) signed up, we asked if we could wear black and were told no. My Mom (2nd degree) signed up a few weeks later and was allowed to. He asked us (me and my parents) to judge testing. The first time, we didn't grade a single paper. He told us we would next time. The second time, we didn't either. Now, (I've quit and my parents are still going), he's telling them that they can't judge because they don't know his curriculum.

I've noticed this now with both Korean masters I've trained under. Is it a Master thing? Is it a Kukkiwon thing? Is it a Korean thing? That they are very particular about how things have to go, even if they change their mind.

Yep, but I think I learned some of the reasons over the years. First off, he is an older human and entitled to forget every once in a while. Second, I have seen our GM repeatedly press exceptional students this way to test their mental mettle. I have seen this trait with multiple GM's so I am convinced there is some degree of 'Korean culture' going on. I cannot count how many times is have heard "I told you 3-times, why you so stupid". But he is careful who he says it to.
The latter does sound disingenuous. As though he was being polite until he felt the other side was bring nothing to the table, so to speak.
I definitely see it more in traditional instructors versus more moder KKW instructors. KKW is rote and to a written standard. Traditional instructors (like ours) is more about teaching/changing the mental process.