Is it not a good idea to use boxing in a street fight situation do to the risk of breaking bones in

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'd guess (with too little information for this to be an educated guess) that something about the situation feels dramatically different to them. Enough is changing (at least, to them) at the same time that they have anxiety about it. Perhaps they've seen senior students going at it hard, and that's their expectation of what goes on once the gloves are on, or something like that.

That is very likely. Good insights! Thank you. There has definitely been blood on the floor in the 1 vs 2 sparring of senior students.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We rotate the entire torso, from hips to shoulders, by pushing on the ground with the feet. The energy from the push is directed into the hips to turn from one side to the other. This causes the hip joints to open and close as you turn from one side to the other, and back again, as you throw one punch after another.

Ok that is very different. I believe you and I discussed this difference over a video on another thread. This is tibetan white crane you are describing?

 

[caped crusader]

I stand corrected. What I should have said was that I couldn’t afford them even if I had known they existed.

well i was just born in 66. even growing up in the 70s & 80s i only saw boxing gloves. If i showed up then at a local boxing club with his gloves i would have been laughed at.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Could be, but to me they are different. Twisting implies that the hips stay where they are and the shoulders rotate, causing the spine to twist. Rotate means the entire torso, from hips to shoulders, turn as a single unit without (or minimized) twisting the spine. Twisting can be done with little or no engagement of the legs, while rotation is pushed from the feet and legs. From what I’ve seen, it seems like a lot of people twist from the shoulders and don’t engage the legs as much as they could. That is one of the things I didn’t like about the video, it all seemed to come from the shoulders and not from the legs and feet. The feet were turning over as a result of the shoulders turning, rather than as the root pushing that turn.

I understand now what you mean. i agree that it must come from the root and the legs drive the motion. We emphasize turning the waist not the shoulders. We leave the hip still. Moving the below the waist body independently of the above the waist body. Like tank and turret. Both are useful and it seems as if the ultimate goal of motion is very similar even if the method differs. Thank you for your explanation.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

well i was just born in 66. even growing up in the 70s & 80s i only saw boxing gloves. If i showed up then at a local boxing club with his gloves i would have been laughed at.

I only had the gloves given me by my uncle, the kids at the boxing gym would have laughed at me regardless.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We rotate the entire torso, from hips to shoulders, by pushing on the ground with the feet. The energy from the push is directed into the hips to turn from one side to the other. This causes the hip joints to open and close as you turn from one side to the other, and back again, as you throw one punch after another.

Interesting, Do you have video reference? I would like to see it. I am as much a student of motion and physics as I am of martial arts. It’s all one big thing to me. Always interested in other peoples styles.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We rotate the entire torso, from hips to shoulders, by pushing on the ground with the feet. The energy from the push is directed into the hips to turn from one side to the other. This causes the hip joints to open and close as you turn from one side to the other, and back again, as you throw one punch after another.

Maybe we should start a thread on this? I’m curious how jow ga and Xue and others do it also.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok that is very different. I believe you and I discussed this difference over a video on another thread. This is tibetan white crane you are describing?

Yep, and it is honestly a bit difficult to describe in writing, without being able to show.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I never seem to get the beginners who want to hit hard. I remember them back in the day, but I mostly get adults (over 35) since I moved up here, so that might be the difference. I've spent a lot of time getting students to hit a bit harder each time.

I’m lucky I’m in a college town, lots of young folks here.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yep, and it is honestly a bit difficult to describe in writing, without being able to show.

Oh I totally understand that. Even showing it doesnt tell the whole story.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So what would be the other reason for wearing wraps?

Reasons for wearing hand wraps.
1. Protect the skin from breaking open - Heavy bag training
2. Protect the fist - Muay Boran Wraps & Dambe
3. Protect the fist structure (Fist and Wrist) - Boxing
4. To cause more damage to the opponent - Muay Boran Wraps

I had to separate the fist and fist structure because there's a difference between the two. You can do one without the other. To my knowledge #2 only protects the fist and not the wrist. If anything you will get forearm protection. It may seem minor, but if you get good with attacking your opponents forearms then he'll be less willing to punch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Enough is changing (at least, to them) at the same time that they have anxiety about it. Perhaps they've seen senior students going at it hard, and that's their expectation of what goes on once the gloves are on, or something like that.

This was the major cause of sparring hesitation. They would see advance level students spar and work themselves in an imagine reality, thinking they would get the same treatment.

I never knew this until a student spar with us after 5 years of training. He had fun and he said the though we were going to hit him hard. I so shocked, that I asked him why did he think that. Then he said he saw how the instructors sparred and he didn't want to get hit like that.

The next time I teach I will go into more detail about sparring and what happens at each level. Hopefully this will help cut down that anxiety.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe we should start a thread on this? I’m curious how jow ga and Xue and others do it also.

For me it's very similar to Flying crane. I understand the things that he says about twisting from shoulders and the challenges.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

For me it's very similar to Flying crane. I understand the things that he says about twisting from shoulders and the challenges.

Wing Woo Gar has elements of Hung Gar, Mok Gar, Choy Li Fut, Tong long pai, Tam Tui, and some others. We practice Yang long Tai Chi Chuan also as part of the system. Sifu James Wing Woo trained with Lau Bun in San Francisco at the good citizens club as well. We train with cotton soled slippers on a waxed, polished concrete floor that is very slippery. Deep horse stance exercise and low stance Tai chi is very difficult and more athletic in nature under theses circumstances. The floor serves several purposes, one side effect is that people cannot kick or jump higher than they can control without falling. Additionally, one cannot efficiently “push” against it. One must learn to “pull” with the bottom of the foot like the way a tire “pulls“ against the road. This fundamentally changes the way the student thinks about where movement originates. It applies even more obviously when tried outside with rubber soled shoes on asphalt. Ankle bend and the art of stacking and folding come into play here. My point (in this extremely long explanation) is that all this informs the way I go about the waist vs hips movement to generate power. To my students I use these maxims; the bottom moves the top, the back moves the front, the inside moves the outside. is any of that relatable? Am I making any sense? I know I’m on a bit of tangent here.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wing Woo Gar has elements of Hung Gar, Mok Gar, Choy Li Fut, Tong long pai, Tam Tui, and some others. We practice Yang long Tai Chi Chuan also as part of the system. Sifu James Wing Woo trained with Lau Bun in San Francisco at the good citizens club as well. We train with cotton soled slippers on a waxed, polished concrete floor that is very slippery. Deep horse stance exercise and low stance Tai chi is very difficult and more athletic in nature under theses circumstances. The floor serves several purposes, one side effect is that people cannot kick or jump higher than they can control without falling. Additionally, one cannot efficiently “push” against it. One must learn to “pull” with the bottom of the foot like the way a tire “pulls“ against the road. This fundamentally changes the way the student thinks about where movement originates. It applies even more obviously when tried outside with rubber soled shoes on asphalt. Ankle bend and the art of stacking and folding come into play here. My point (in this extremely long explanation) is that all this informs the way I go about the waist vs hips movement to generate power. To my students I use these maxims; the bottom moves the top, the back moves the front, the inside moves the outside. is any of that relatable? Am I making any sense? I know I’m on a bit of tangent here.

Interesting concept, pulling with the feet rather than pushing, while on a slippery floor. Two thoughts come to mind. First, is it an artificial condition that is unlikely to reflect the world outside the kwoon (at least much of the time in most climates). And, as I think on my own methods, perhaps there is an element of pulling as well, depending on circumstances. I’ll need to ponder this a bit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I’m lucky I’m in a college town, lots of young folks here.

I think my initial recruitment (via a seminar series at a YMCA I'd be teaching at) kind of set the tone. Everyone who came to the seminar series was 30+, and most were 40+. Of course, that meant that was the composition of my first classes, and you tend to get more of whatever demographic you have.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This was the major cause of sparring hesitation. They would see advance level students spar and work themselves in an imagine reality, thinking they would get the same treatment.

I never knew this until a student spar with us after 5 years of training. He had fun and he said the though we were going to hit him hard. I so shocked, that I asked him why did he think that. Then he said he saw how the instructors sparred and he didn't want to get hit like that.

The next time I teach I will go into more detail about sparring and what happens at each level. Hopefully this will help cut down that anxiety.

This is part of the reason I use the process I do. Students get introduced in a really gentle way, which also gives me a chance to see if they have a trauma response to it - actually had that happen during some seminars, so now I try to get ahead of it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Additionally, one cannot efficiently “push” against it. One must learn to “pull” with the bottom of the foot like the way a tire “pulls“ against the road.

I think I understand this only because I spent about a month training on a slippery floor. My garage floor is dusty so I have the same challenge of quickly moving without that big push that I would normally take or a non-slip surface. The things I was taught with the horse stance was to Push into the ground, Pull into the ground as if I'm trying to pinch the ground, and neutral where I'm doing neither one.

My point (in this extremely long explanation) is that all this informs the way I go about the waist vs hips movement to generate power. To my students I use these maxims; the bottom moves the top, the back moves the front, the inside moves the outside. is any of that relatable?

This part I'm not sure about because of how I teach my son the difference. I'll have "get out of my box" and give it some thought

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Interesting concept, pulling with the feet rather than pushing, while on a slippery floor. Two thoughts come to mind. First, is it an artificial condition that is unlikely to reflect the world outside the kwoon (at least much of the time in most climates). And, as I think on my own methods, perhaps there is an element of pulling as well, depending on circumstances. I’ll need to ponder this a bit.

Well it’s more difficult during training, but when the same concept is applied without the slippery floor then one can apply greater pressure. It’s difficult to describe.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well it’s more difficult during training, but when the same concept is applied without the slippery floor then one can apply greater pressure. It’s difficult to describe.

I can understand the concept. Need to give it some thought.