The Myth of Sparring.

[Karasu Tengu]

OK it looks like everyone has thier opinion on sparing and randori (the term I use). All of our techniques are designed to kill the enemy. You know Martial (war) Arts. However, from reading this thread the majority of you only mention 1-on-1 encounters. So how do you handle multiple attackers say 5-on-1? You don't see this in UFC or tournaments. Why? This is what we do (I now study Ninpo [8 years] but I have held Shodan rank in Shotokan and Aikido) since this is more likely the real world case now days. It is controlled and everything is pulled to a certain extent depending on the student's training level, understanding of certain principles and thier level of acceptance. Shodan and above hit each other rather forcefully in real time but not enough to cause any damage they have not trained to accept. It teaches the same ideas as "sparring" but in vastly different vocabulary.

BTW did anyone catch the program Xtreme Martial Arts on the Discovery Channel yesterday. Pretty interesting. I particulary chuckeld at the weapons and "point sparing". National Champions? Uh ok. But what do I know, I'm a (military) combat vet.

 

[Makalakumu]

I cut down on my free sparring a few years ago and focused on drills and randori. Now, when I face multiple opponents (in sparring) my techniques connect and its enough to drop them out of the fight. Not enough to really hurt them. Still, the habits! I can see how it could really be a detriment in a real fight. Questons, questions, questions, that is what the training is about, I guess.

 

[cfr]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
I can tell you without a doubt that my ability to deal with these physical confrontations was inversely proportional to my ability with sparring. The more I sparred, the less I was able to handle a real aggressor.

Why? Instinct. Sparring trains your instincts to do certain techniques that do not harm your opponent. Plain and simple - otherwise the ranks of martial artists would be greatly diminished.

Does anyone else agree with this? Im curious because Ive wondered this often. Having never sparred (approx 6 more months) I have nothing to base an opinion on. But what Ive often wondered is that Ive read several times "you fight how you train" and if thats the case then couldnt sparring make you develop some bad habits? From what I know(again Im still green) nobody actually elbows to the face, kicks to the nads, tries to break a knee with a good kick while sparring. Im sure a very select few are out there trying these things while sparring but they are probably much more the exception than the rule. So couldnt you develop the habit of(for lack of better words) "holding back" while sparring? Personally Im pretty excited to start sparring for the simple fact that Ive yet to have unscripted punches coming to my face and want to learn to not freeze up. But the above mentioned point also makes sense. Any thoughts? The above quote seems logical to me.

 

[Chuck]

Let's go back...Cus Amato...Angelo Dundee...whoever started boxing and sparring:"Take out the body and the head follows."

I don't spar by going at someone's head. With or without gloves, I go for "soft targets. Eyes, throat sternum, belly, groin, muscle groups and nerve bundles, joints...the head is too hard. You'll break your hands.

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by cfr
Does anyone else agree with this? Im curious because Ive wondered this often. Having never sparred (approx 6 more months) I have nothing to base an opinion on. But what Ive often wondered is that Ive read several times "you fight how you train" and if thats the case then couldnt sparring make you develop some bad habits? From what I know(again Im still green) nobody actually elbows to the face, kicks to the nads, tries to break a knee with a good kick while sparring. Im sure a very select few are out there trying these things while sparring but they are probably much more the exception than the rule. So couldnt you develop the habit of(for lack of better words) "holding back" while sparring?

Hitting air and doing drills against nonresisting opponents has a great chance of encouraging bad habits and fostering unrealistic techniques.

 

[cfr]

Originally posted by Marginal
Hitting air and doing drills against nonresisting opponents has a great chance of encouraging bad habits and fostering unrealistic techniques.

Great. Any opinion on my question?

 

[SenseiBear]

Originally posted by cfr
Does anyone else agree with this? Im curious because Ive wondered this often. Having never sparred (approx 6 more months) I have nothing to base an opinion on. But what Ive often wondered is that Ive read several times "you fight how you train" and if thats the case then couldnt sparring make you develop some bad habits?

Yes - absolutely. You are how you train. When you do something thousand of times, train it into muscle memory, this is how you will likely react under similar stimulus. If you train for sparring, sparring is what you will do...

Now, that said, we do spar - not well, as that is not what we train for, but it is valuable - best way I know to learn not to lead with your head, timing, distance... Learning to see openings, how to deliver and take a blow... all those mentioned above. But I try to limit it to maybe 6 classes a year. What we do far more often (most classes) is a one step self defense drill - an attacker makes a know committed attack, slow with no resistance at beginning levels to allow you to train a series of techniques in defense of the attack, and as your skill increases the attacks move to full speed and power, and before black belt, your attacker will be countering your defense techniques as well. At the Black belt test, students need to defend against an attacker throwing multiple hand and foot techniqes, free form at full power. Attackers are gloved to protect the student, and black belt judges are around to determine when the attacker has been incapacitated - this is done repeatedly against one attacker, and then against two or more attackers -

but sparring every once in a while is fun, and does have things to teach - I just wouldn't over do it if your training focus is self defense.

SB

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by SenseiBear
Yes - absolutely. You are how you train. When you do something thousand of times, train it into muscle memory, this is how you will likely react under similar stimulus. If you train for sparring, sparring is what you will do...

Now, that said, we do spar - not well, as that is not what we train for, but it is valuable - best way I know to learn not to lead with your head, timing, distance... Learning to see openings, how to deliver and take a blow... all those mentioned above. But I try to limit it to maybe 6 classes a year. What we do far more often (most classes) is a one step self defense drill - an attacker makes a know committed attack, slow with no resistance at beginning levels to allow you to train a series of techniques in defense of the attack, and as your skill increases the attacks move to full speed and power, and before black belt, your attacker will be countering your defense techniques as well. At the Black belt test, students need to defend against an attacker throwing multiple hand and foot techniqes, free form at full power. Attackers are gloved to protect the student, and black belt judges are around to determine when the attacker has been incapacitated - this is done repeatedly against one attacker, and then against two or more attackers -

but sparring every once in a while is fun, and does have things to teach - I just wouldn't over do it if your training focus is self defense.

SB

I couldn't agree more completely with this post!!

7sm

 

[Karasu Tengu]

Ditto!

 

[TonyM.]

My experience has tallied upnorthkyosa's. For me sparring is a test of techniques not really a training method.