Is Cross training detremental to your Life?

Yoshi, with respect, this is where I bow out. But I'll share an anecdote first that will, if notihng else, maybe give you some insight into where I'm coming from.

First, backhanded insinuations about my education are uncalled for. I've also been to college and do enjoy study on my own as well. I would guess that we're among many others who are much the same. I try to presume that the people with whom I'm chatting are at least as smart, if not smarter, than me. It's often true, although i'm happy to allow them to prove otherwise. I would encourage you to do the same.

Okay, the anecdote. My son is approaching teenager-dom. I couldn't be prouder. He's also quite smart. Very smart. While I'm certainly biased, I can say without hyperbole that my two oldest kids are among the top 5% in their schools for practical intelligence and IQ. I only bring this up because it's relevant.

A few years back, there was a kid that my son just didn't get along with. They flat out didn't like each other. What really disturbed me is that my son was working within the rules in such a way that, while he was at least partially to blame for each incident through his actions (and likely engineered each one entirely), the OTHER kid was the one getting into all of the trouble. My son thought he was being clever, laying intellectual and emotional traps for this other kid, creating situations in which the other kid would react poorly. I was very disappointed.

At about this same time, my son was starting to give us problems around the house. I'd ask him to do something and he would do only that and no more. Clean the kitchen would become an argument in which he would try to "define clean." This general attitude was manifesting in many ways. While we called him on it around the house, he was having a lot more success playing these games at school.

The discussion that I had with my son was about a type of person I refer to as a "rules lawyer." These are the people who ignore the spirit of a rule and break the rules by finding the loopholes. They're the people who are the reason we have disclaimers on every advertisement. These are the people who will scrutinize their pizza to find something wrong so that they can demand to be comped. They're people who don't enter into conversations in good faith, who are more interested in showing how clever they are than actually thinking and discussing the matters at hand. I told my son that I didn't want him to be a "rules lawyer." These are the people who, for sport or revenge or whatever reason, use their intelligence to manipulate other people. I choose as a general rule not to associate with them in my day to day life. I don't like them. And I certainly don't want my son to be one of them. Fortunately, he took the lesson to heart.

Ultimately, I don't believe, even after considering your post, that there is a downside to eating one's vegetables. My position is that the spirit of the example is sound: eating healthy is good. No cons. I will also submit that there is no pro to smoking crack. Again, the spirit of the example is, in my opinion, sound. My intent was not to describe to you absolutes. It was to draw a reliable generalization.

In that spirit, there is no downside to crosstraining. I have provided some simple caveats in various posts earlier, including intent/desired outcome, aptitude and time, as well as training methods.

I hope this clears things up. At this point, while I'll keep up with the thread and respond to posts that might take the thread in a new direction, I hope this is sufficient to put at least my own position on the topic of whether there is are cons to crosstraining to bed.
 
this thread has turned into a perfect example of what i call paralysis by analysis. of course there are pros & cons to everything but they are so subjective that in cases such as whether or not to crosstrain they really don't warrant a 5 page thread. it is also so obvious that it is barely worth discussing. did it really take us this long to arrive at "well, one con is that it takes time"? well of course. i think some of us assumed that was a given.

jf
 
Hey Stevebjj is your son for hire ?
I need a good " Rules Lawyer " he can argue the case to my wife about me not wanting to take the garbage out each week . :lol:
 
Hey Stevebjj is your son for hire ?
I need a good " Rules Lawyer " he can argue the case to my wife about me not wanting to take the garbage out each week . :lol:

LOL. I sincerely hope not!!! But if you want my advice, volunteer for all of the jobs you don't mind and then imply that she's the one not pulling her weight. I used that in my first marriage and... well... Okay. It led to divorce. But it might work better for you. :)
 
Steve said there are no con's to eating ones vegatables?

On the contrary if you over eat or eat a certain vegatable in excess it could cause some health defects.
But then it's excess that is detrimental, not the eating of vegetables itself. I think this is true of most of the other examples you gave. It's being excessive that is the problem, not the actual action (giving to charity, drinking water etc).

Whether it's cross training or eating, it's how you do it that makes it good/bad/neutral.
 
Once again you prove my point...To everything you just said I find con's and pro's

You may not see them. But thanks to College and studing on my own I see them...

Steve said there are no con's to eating ones vegatables?

On the contrary if you over eat or eat a certain vegatable in excess it could cause some health defects. Everything must have a balance. Too much meat is bad for you,Too much sugar and yes sir too much vegatables. A we Now know too much water is bad for you. Like the woman who died from drinking too much water in one day. Her body literally drowned. But to qualify my statement. In college when I studied a Biology I saw a chart of foods which dealth will excess and deficent quanties of certain vegatables and fruits. They also had a name of disorders if you get too much or too little of specific Fruit of Veggie.

Giving to charity can also be detremental to your life. There are people who believe everyword their pastors says. In other words certain churches have people give their whole pay check to church. Some pastor say if you give me your all the creator will rain down on you hundred times as much as you give. These people faith be so strong they give away the mortage money, light bill, gas money and even sometimes life savings. When they are on the street with nothing to show for it but a ticket at the soup kitchen they blame the creator for their mishaps. If they had not given their money in the first place they would have been cool. But too much or excess can be bad in this case too. I had a buddy who made seven hundred dollars a week. He would give the church seventy dollars or more each week. He was faithful with his tithed. When he lost his job...Did the church honor all that giving he gave for two whole years. Did the church help him with his light bill. No, He eventually got evicted when he couldn't find work. So there you go a down side to everything. That Seventy Dollars could have been saved for a rainy day. Like the light bill..

Anyway somepeople give all their money to feed the homeless or feed the poor. But if they give all their money away to the poor then what are they going to live off of. In fact the bible says if you want to be perfect go an sell all your worldly possessions and give the money to the poor. So sell your house,jewlery,applicances,car,stocks,goodly clothing, furniture,stereo equipment, Xbox360 and Wii along with your plasma television and give it all to the poor. Do you think there is not a con there? Or is it all good?

You said something about no Pro's to smoking crack?

What if your dying a painful death and the only pain killers you can get your hands on is crack. Wouldn't that be a con to make your death an easier one. Don't forget if you go to doctor for pain and if its serious enough what do they give you? Morphine. What is cocain anyway? Cocain or coca is just a pain killer. Plus some people say cocain has short time posistive effects. Its just the long term use causes issues. If your arm is cut off. Wouldn't sniffing some cocain numb the pain?

As for tooth paste three times daily...Well a person who brushes their teeth ten times a day is most certiantly at a greater risk for disease and death than a person who brushes his teeth twice daily. Because for one their is Fluoride in Tooth paste...Not good at all for the human body. Plus I have relatives and friends who are doctors or becoming doctors. So these people share with me that posions inside tooth paste. Thats why some people use different types of toothpaste like the organic kind.

Also sometimes cancer patients are advise to use organic toothpaste and organic deordant. So they can live longer with the cancer. The average joe doesn't know about the carnigeons in toothpaste unless they get a disease or have relative who got cancer and told them everything the doctor said...Plus in college we studied some of these vary same topics.

So in conclusion there are pro's and con's to everything. Even studying a martial art. The main problem is you choose not see one. So what I will say in your opinion you can see no pro's and con's you only see the good. Nothing more and nothing less...

Well share a con about studing Wing Chun?

*If you study WC you may become a very good fighter causing thugs or criminals who **** you beat so badly to come back an shoot you seventy times in the chest out of revenge for the **** beating you gave them.

*The con to not studing WC would be those same thugs who would have killed you for beating them now beats you to death because they don't like the color you got on. Since you didn't study WC the con would be you got beat to death!

Those are possible con's for instance this one little boys father will not take him to a karate school to learn karate. This boy express interest in learning a Martial Art. But his father is afraid he might get hurt. So Pro's and Con's are already drawn for this guy's father...Why can't anyone else own up to their pro's and con's out side the magnificient Xue and Paulus?


Great Post Paulus you hit it on the nail!!!!

Time and confliction of specialization which could lead to possible confusion or mixing or fusion of principals....

WOW!

Really, all I can say at this point is "WOW! I give up."

surrender.jpg
 
WOW!

Really, all I can say at this point is "WOW! I give up."

surrender.jpg

I have one thing to say...strawman. That is really all Yosi is doing at this point...creating a strawman arugment. This thread needs to die...a quick and painless death. In the end, like I've said, if you want to train, fine, if you don't, fine. I mean, taking this to the point of arguing that eating too many veggies is bad...come on.

Yes dungeonworks, you said it best....WOW!!!
 
stevebjj said:
But if you want my advice, volunteer for all of the jobs you don't mind and then imply that she's the one not pulling her weight. I used that in my first marriage and... well... Okay. It led to divorce. But it might work better for you. :)

HAHAHAHAAA!!!!

That was funny!!!

Anyway, about this topic. I refer to my good friend Sun Tzu;

"The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand."

"If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles."

"Know the enemy and know yourself. Your victory will be painless."

i.e. “If you have avoided self-deception and accurately interpreted the motivations (to know) behind your opponent's moves (your enemy), you can find a place (yourself) where you will invest much less in winning a dominant position (victory) than the position is worth in terms of its tangible rewards (painless)."

"
Now the reason the enlightened prince and the wise general conquer the enemy whenever they move and their achievements surpass those of ordinary men is foreknowledge."


This one is the basic principle in formulating technique sequences in my training:

"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. "

"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."

From this, what do you think is my position on "cross training" (whatever that means...)

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 
Yoshiyahu

I truly mean no offense here but after multiple discussions with you in multiple posts I find that I am beginning to believe that it would be so much easier if you would just tell us exactly what answers you would and save us all a lot of time.

And in closing I am not a magnificient anything, I am an old beatup CMA a guy as far as MT is concerned and that is all.
 
Great Post Paulus you hit it on the nail!!!!

Yes! Paulus hit it right on the nail!!!! Unfortunately, it was the SIDE of the nail. ;)

Reading and posting on this forum detracts from my primary art way more than my crosstraining does.:flushed:

I should be practicing now...I'll go. Tchiao!
 
Yes, Excess can be harmful. So if you don't have a based art an you study like ten arts at one time with all different principals you may find it hard to progress in either of them. You will lack profeciency in any one of them...

As for Stevebjj...I didn't give you a back hand educational smite. I simply said in college I studied that access of Veggies and fruits do cause problems. You being a college boy your self should already know this. Also if you are educated or have incredibly smart son should also know every thing has pro's and con's yes everything. For instance Time and Money could be a con or pro. Depending on the situtation.


As for Xue Sheng the answers are simple. I want to hear from those who say they are no con's that are both Pro's and Con's...I honestly stated the benefits of cross training along with disadvatanges. Some make think thats contradicting....But there are pro's and con's to everything. I shared the Pros so you will know I am not just against all out cross training because it is useful if you a foundational art already. But What I wanted Steve and another guy to share is both the Pro's and Con's...I want them to own up to atleast one disadvantage along with one advantage of cross training...

Its simple SteveBjj

1.An Advantage to cross training is......
2.A Disadvantage to cross training is....



But then it's excess that is detrimental, not the eating of vegetables itself. I think this is true of most of the other examples you gave. It's being excessive that is the problem, not the actual action (giving to charity, drinking water etc).

Whether it's cross training or eating, it's how you do it that makes it good/bad/neutral.
 
I think what Yoshi is basicly trying to tell us is that he agrees with the Yin/Yang theory.
 
Yes there are negatives and posistives everything. Light and darkness. Advantages and Disadvantages?


To re asked the Question:

1.Whats one advantage of Cross training as beginner to Martial Arts?

2.What One disadvantage to Cross training many arts oppose to Mastering in one Art?

Eru Ilúvatar;1102832 said:
I think what Yoshi is basicly trying to tell us is that he agrees with the Yin/Yang theory.
 
1.Whats one advantage of Cross training as beginner to Martial Arts?

2.What One disadvantage to Cross training many arts oppose to Mastering in one Art?
The problem with this is it is a loaded question.

It depends on the teacher and the student and the ability to grasp and utilize the teaching. The questions you are asking is a blanket statement.

Cross training and sticking to one art are the same.

Both are trying to achieve the same goal.

Yin and Yang and all duality are one.
 
I give up...I will never received a reasonable answer to this Question. I give up. I take it as you don't won't to answer the fact that crosstraining any two arts, BJJ not included, Could be a negative as well as posistive.
 
I give up...I will never received a reasonable answer to this Question. I give up. I take it as you don't won't to answer the fact that crosstraining any two arts, BJJ not included, Could be a negative as well as posistive.
Yoshi, do you know what a logical fallacy is? I'm asking seriously. Not everyone has taken any philosophy or debate classes.

There are questions that are inherently disengenuous and don't warrant an answer. Take the questions, "Are there pros and cons to crosstraining? What do you think?" That's a legit question and one that many people have tried to answer honestly and in good faith. The question: "What are the pros and what are the cons of crosstraining, you are required to come up with at least one of each?" is bogus. Can you see the difference?

Honestly, I don't know why I'm still trying. I guess I'm hoping against all hope that you'll come to the light and understand. No one's telling you that you can't argue pros and cons to crosstraining or even assert that there are both. Honestly. At this point, I'm not in any way trying to influence your opinion. I'm just saying that you can't force anyone to agree with you by coercing us into answering a contrived false dichotomy. The way to convince people is to present an argument (the philosophical kind, not the bickering with your older sibling kind) that is rational and compelling and then to defend that position in a reasonable way.

And sometimes, there's no resolution and people just disagree. It's okay.
 
I have taken Philospy not debate classes though. I do not heed to european philopies I see them as skewed...

But as for Strawman argument
Fallacies
and Premises...

I am familiar with the terms.

A fallacy is a false statment

My Statement is everything has a pro and con. In business one con would be the time it takes to do item A takes away time to do item B. Also another thing is finacial investment.

But in either case you feel training two arts is the same as training just one art? Am I correct?

You feel there is no disadvantage to training two arts?

But I feel everything has a advantages over the other!


Next Question?

What is the advantage to not cross training? What would be the advantage to studing lets say Baguazhang exclusively with out adding Muay Thai or Karate?



Yoshi, do you know what a logical fallacy is? I'm asking seriously. Not everyone has taken any philosophy or debate classes.

There are questions that are inherently disengenuous and don't warrant an answer. Take the questions, "Are there pros and cons to crosstraining? What do you think?" That's a legit question and one that many people have tried to answer honestly and in good faith. The question: "What are the pros and what are the cons of crosstraining, you are required to come up with at least one of each?" is bogus. Can you see the difference?

Honestly, I don't know why I'm still trying. I guess I'm hoping against all hope that you'll come to the light and understand. No one's telling you that you can't argue pros and cons to crosstraining or even assert that there are both. Honestly. At this point, I'm not in any way trying to influence your opinion. I'm just saying that you can't force anyone to agree with you by coercing us into answering a contrived false dichotomy. The way to convince people is to present an argument (the philosophical kind, not the bickering with your older sibling kind) that is rational and compelling and then to defend that position in a reasonable way.

And sometimes, there's no resolution and people just disagree. It's okay.
 
Ok. Obviously there is a con that is bugging you and which no one has taken up for a discussion. Since you know what it is, and want to have a discussion, instead of an argument, throw it on the table and let's discuss it. What do you think it is?
 
Yoshi, it is clear that, while you may have read some philosophy, you haven't studied it. I mean studied like we study martial arts, with a competent teacher. The stuff I'm talking about is white belt level philosophy. Fundamental. Just dismissing it doesn't work. We are talking about schools of thought that are older than wing chun. Battle tested, so to speak.

Take hand swords advice and speak plainly. This double talk just drags things out.
 
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