Is Cross training detremental to your Life?

[Archangel M]

"Is Cross training detremental to your Life?"

If you depend on keeping students in your doors for the cash it may be. *smirk*

 

[MJS]

I did agree with one point...let me share.....


Someone said something about taking the stretches from like TKD and using them to become more flexible. This is probably what my Sifu did. Because he taught me strecthes from my head to my toes. But these same streches I also see in Phyiscal education and even in many Shaolin and Gung fu books. Also many of streches bruce lee did are also from Shaolin and Gung Fu books. I see track runners and other atheletes using the same streches as Tae Kwon Do. But I think the best Stecthing formula would come from Ballet in my humble opion. Because they are most limber I have ever seen. Of course the streching regiment of Karate would come next and then after that would be Tae Kwn Do. But either way. If you practice TKD Kicks, Some Judo throws,Some Aikido arm Locks. In my opinion your still doing Wing Chun. Wing Chun doesn't kick above the waist that often. But that doesn't mean Wing Chun can not kick High. It just usually tries to choose the most direct path. But their are always exceptions to rule in actual fight and in training. For one When you train Wing Chun you need to be able to throw High kicks in order to do partner drills where you can defend against high round house kicks to head. You need to work on joint locks and throws so you know how to apply them in Wing Chun. Wing Chun uses grappling and Chin Na. So you have Judo and Aikido also with in the WC system.

Yes, that was me that mentioned TKD and the stretching. That was simply an example. IMO, it seems like you're still grasping at something, trying to dismiss the examples to justify your points. The borrowing can be applied to anything. Note I also used the boxing as an example. Seems that when an example is given, you say that it doesn't apply to WC. Note that I also said that if you didnt want to crosstrain, to not do it.

But I do say study Throws and Joint Lock techniques Study High kicks. Study Wrestling. But study your WC more. Do not neglect your WC to go train in another style for two years and keep flip flopping...

Did you get the impression that I suggested otherwise? Show me where I said to stop your base art. I've been doing Kenpo for over 20yrs. yet I still crosstrain. Still doing Kenpo.

I feel training two new styles at once is extremely hard. Like if your a golden glove boxer and start training Karate and Tae Kwon Do to increase your hard style combat with kicks and chops along with aerial Kicks and high stamina kicks. It will be harder to become one with the two new styles. It will take longer for your body to comform to both styles. It will take longer to remember the basics and forms too. These are some draw backs in my humble Opinion I am now facing. But any way You may feel differently thats cool.

Are you reading any replies before you post? If you were, you'd notice that I said that one should have a solid base art first, waiting at least until the upper ranks, which would most likely put the person at around 5-6 yrs in a base first BEFORE starting to crosstrain.

Personally I think Wing Chun is a great style that doesn't need any cross training to become a better fighter. I also feel the same about Five Animals, Xing Yi Quan, Tai Chi Chaun, Eagle Claw, Pak Mei, Bagua Zhang etc. If you practice these styles and progress to a mastery level you won't need another style to supplement them.

Then dont crosstrain! Why do you start threads like this, then dismiss all the suggestions?

But I do see a benefit to cross training. Its about being deceptive. Like for instance. When I spar or fight. I throw up a boxing guard. This way the average street fighter feels comfortable. An he expects to fight a boxers fight. Then When the clinch comes inside fighting springs up. Along with some wing chun kicks. When distance is regain then outside long fighting comes. Long Kicks and Long Punches. So inside they are terrorize and outside they are terrorize.

Man, if this and the above posts of yours are not contradicting, I don't know what is. One post you're saying you don't need to crosstrain, and this in this one you do.

 

[MJS]

But there is nothing wrong with Cross training for fun. But its for combat purposes there may be a problem. You need contact sparring with people of other styles and those in your system more skilled than you. Now there is nothing wrong with drawing from other systems in a fight either.

Do you think that this isn't done? This is the idea of crosstraining, to work with other arts, so of course its going to include pressure testing and sparring against the other arts. Are you missing what I've been saying????

I dont know man, it seems that one minute you dismiss something, and then in the next post, you say the complete opposite.

 

[dungeonworks]

Do you think that this isn't done? This is the idea of crosstraining, to work with other arts, so of course its going to include pressure testing and sparring against the other arts. Are you missing what I've been saying????

I dont know man, it seems that one minute you dismiss something, and then in the next post, you say the complete opposite.

...or asks you to define it again! :uhyeah:

 

[Steve]

What is your definition of Aikido?

What is your definition of Judo?

I have taken both. An I can say with in the WC system I learn there are already aspects of both Judo and Aikido with in system. You just need to consult your sifu about the techniques to learn how to drill them...

I would say that aikido taught by a competent aikido instructor is aikido. Just as Judo taught by a competent Judo instructor is Judo.

As a blue belt in BJJ, I am learning BJJ from a competent BJJ instructor, and have been for a few years now. I am not, however, competent myself to TEACH BJJ. So, while what I'm learning is teh r34l BJJ, I wouldn't then go to a Karate school and presume to uke for them with the idea that if they can beat me, they can defeat "a grappler." Make sense?

This is the value of cross training. It's dangerous to take an imperfect understanding of an art and then attempt to translate that imperfect understanding to another art (vis a vis Aikido/Judo/BJJ to WC). Instead, it seems far better to learn WC from a WC sifu and BJJ from a BJJ Black Belt (or even a high Purple/Brown). Then, as you gain experience in both, you can begin to synthesize the techniques for yourself. After all, it's you (or me or whoever) who has to synthesize the techniques through application.

And once again, I'm not sure I agree that a base art is strictly necessary. It can help, and I can certainly see it being good for some people. But people all over are learning multiple athletic or academic activities at the same time. We tend to treat Martial Arts differently than almost every other activity we learn. I'm not sure why. I can learn to play football and baseball at the same time... not actually at the same exact time, but you get the point.

 

[MJS]

...or asks you to define it again! :uhyeah:

Exactly. Hmm...I'm thinking of a 7 letter word, starts with T........

 

[Yoshiyahu]

All of you have some great points...Jarrod I am n0ot sure what you mean by is he attcking Jujitsuka. Or Wing Chun. Well just because someone is being aggressive and linear punches doesn't mean they are doing Wing Chun. They could be doing Xing Yi or may be Karate. But ne way as for contradictiong statement. I am sharing both Posistives and Negatives of Cross training. As some have stated that its better to crosstrain after 4 to 6 years. You need a base art first. I totally agree.


As for me stating the benefits of cross training rhat is correct...There are benefits but not to know what other fighters are doing. The only way to truly do that by cross training would be take every art that people practice in America. I doubt even if that was your job no one can actually do that. But I stated some of the benefits of Crosstraining.

But I would like those support Crosstraining to share some of the negatives or cons of cross training?


So I haver shared both cons and pros...


Please MJS, Jarrod,Stevebjj Share the negatives of cross training?

so if i have one of my jujitsu students attack me with lots of forward pressure & linear punches, am i learning to fight against wing chun? or am i learning to fight against a jujitsuka imitating WC?

jf

Do you think that this isn't done? This is the idea of crosstraining, to work with other arts, so of course its going to include pressure testing and sparring against the other arts. Are you missing what I've been saying????

I dont know man, it seems that one minute you dismiss something, and then in the next post, you say the complete opposite.

 

[Steve]

I don't think there are any negatives to cross training. To be clear, I draw a very firm distinction between cross training and dabbling. If you have the time to devote a couple of nights each week to multiple styles, I think that it can only help you. More is better, but 2 to 3 nights per week is enough to improve.

 

[Xue Sheng]

To the topic - "Is Cross training detremental to your Life?"

Oh for crying out loud :whip: if someone wants to cross train and they are serious about it who cares and it is not (insert sinister music) Detrimental to your Life.

But then it would truely depend on how you define cross training and what your goals were in MA (but then this was already said a few posts back)

If your goal is to master a style, let’s say Changquan then no you do not want to cross train because the other styles could potentially get in the way of learning Changquan and all is facets. Basically you do not want to train Changquan for a year and then start White Crane, you will only confuse yourself.

If your goal is to learn all possible aspects as they are listed in the 21st century then cross training is necessary, not much ground fighting in Changquan

Does that mean Changquan can’t handle a grappler, likely no if you have a well trained Changquan person I wouldn’t want to be the one charging in and trying to go to the ground… that is a great way to get upper body parts broken.

If you have trained Changquan for many years, meaning greater than 10, and one afternoon while sitting at your favorite coffee shop enjoying a cup of coffee and a scone you thought…HEY…. You know I think Shuaijiao is pretty neat I might just give it a try… I see nothing wrong or detrimental to your Life.

Actually I see nothing in any of those scenarios that I would say was (DA DA DAAAAA) detrimental to your Life.

However if by cross training you mean a week or 2 of Changquan a few days of BJJ and couple if months of Taiji and week of Xingyiquan, a week of Wing Chun another couple of months Karate 2 days of Muay Thai a full day of TKD and a hour and a half of MMA you will likely be rather ineffective but still not detrimental to your Life, But if from that conglomerate of training you decide you are the ultimate warrior and go out looking for a fight then that might be approaching detrimental to your Life depending on who you pick a fight with (I suggest avoiding the local biker bar). But then if you train a month of Changquan and from that decide you are the ultimate warrior then that to could be rather detrimental to your Life depending on who you decided to fight with.

Now this topic much like any topic that involves Martial Art "X" vs. Martial Art "Y" has been done to death and deserves :deadhorse :deadhorse

Now quit bothering me I have to clean all that damn wax out of my guitar and put on new strings... or was it wicks......

 

[MJS]

To answer the question that was addressed to me...I agree with what Steve said in his last post. Keep in mind, that there is no set time, IMO, to learn an art, when someone cross trains. People talk all the time about how long this and that takes. For me, time isnt a factor. I train, take what I learn, drill it repeatedly, learn more, drill, etc. I'll keep doing that until I can no longer train.

I crosstrain for myself, not necessarily to teach others. Sure, there're times when, during a Kenpo class, I'll show a lock flow from Arnis. I make it clear that it is Arnis NOT Kenpo that they're learning. I also make a point to show how that lock flow can fit into Kenpo. If someone is really serious about learning more, I will teach them, or I will refer them to someone else to trains in the art.

I dont see the cons in cross training. There is something that can be learned from every art IMHO.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Comical but true....

I agree with you on two to three points..

Also thank you for that...you are the first to address both the Pro's and Con's of Cross Training. I fear your wise beyond years.


I look forward to discussing many other topics with you as well?

Points of Agreement concerning the possible Con's

Xue Sheng

If your goal is to master a style, let’s say Changquan then no you do not want to cross train because the other styles could potentially get in the way of learning Changquan and all is facets. Basically you do not want to train Changquan for a year and then start White Crane, you will only confuse yourself.

Points of Agreements concerning Pro's

Xue Sheng

If you have trained Changquan for many years, meaning greater than 10, and one afternoon while sitting at your favorite coffee shop enjoying a cup of coffee and a scone you thought…HEY…. You know I think Shuaijiao is pretty neat I might just give it a try… I see nothing wrong or detrimental to your Life.

To the topic - "Is Cross training detremental to your Life?"

Oh for crying out loud :whip: if someone wants to cross train and they are serious about it who cares and it is not (insert sinister music) Detrimental to your Life.

But then it would truely depend on how you define cross training and what your goals were in MA (but then this was already said a few posts back)

If your goal is to master a style, let’s say Changquan then no you do not want to cross train because the other styles could potentially get in the way of learning Changquan and all is facets. Basically you do not want to train Changquan for a year and then start White Crane, you will only confuse yourself.

If your goal is to learn all possible aspects as they are listed in the 21st century then cross training is necessary, not much ground fighting in Changquan

Does that mean Changquan can’t handle a grappler, likely no if you have a well trained Changquan person I wouldn’t want to be the one charging in and trying to go to the ground… that is a great way to get upper body parts broken.

If you have trained Changquan for many years, meaning greater than 10, and one afternoon while sitting at your favorite coffee shop enjoying a cup of coffee and a scone you thought…HEY…. You know I think Shuaijiao is pretty neat I might just give it a try… I see nothing wrong or detrimental to your Life.

Actually I see nothing in any of those scenarios that I would say was (DA DA DAAAAA) detrimental to your Life.

However if by cross training you mean a week or 2 of Changquan a few days of BJJ and couple if months of Taiji and week of Xingyiquan, a week of Wing Chun another couple of months Karate 2 days of Muay Thai a full day of TKD and a hour and a half of MMA you will likely be rather ineffective but still not detrimental to your Life, But if from that conglomerate of training you decide you are the ultimate warrior and go out looking for a fight then that might be approaching detrimental to your Life depending on who you pick a fight with (I suggest avoiding the local biker bar). But then if you train a month of Changquan and from that decide you are the ultimate warrior then that to could be rather detrimental to your Life depending on who you decided to fight with.

Now this topic much like any topic that involves Martial Art "X" vs. Martial Art "Y" has been done to death and deserves :deadhorse :deadhorse

Now quit bothering me I have to clean all that damn wax out of my guitar and put on new strings... or was it wicks......

 

[Steve]

Yoshi, are you suggesting that we should fabricate cons for the sake of argument? That's what it sounds like to me. Very strange. Seriously.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

There is always a pro and con to everything

From Reading a book from having sex with woman you just met. There are pro's and con's to drinking wine to eating beef. There are pro's and con's to studying Martial Arts to not studying Martial Arts. If you can not see both pro's and con's of Crosstraining to not cross training? Than I can't help you buddy.

But everything has pro's and con's


The only one thus far to prove that is the Magnificent Xue Sheng who has shared truth with us. He shared both benefits and drawbacks to cross training. I feel there is alot to learn Xue who is both humble and knowledgable.


Stevebjj let me asked?

Do you see and pro's and con's for cross training?

If so name just one Pro and One Con for cross training Two or more arts at the same time?

Xue Sheng Said:

However if by cross training you mean a week or 2 of Changquan a few days of BJJ and couple if months of Taiji and week of Xingyiquan, a week of Wing Chun another couple of months Karate 2 days of Muay Thai a full day of TKD and a hour and a half of MMA you will likely be rather ineffective but still not detrimental to your Life, But if from that conglomerate of training you decide you are the ultimate warrior and go out looking for a fight then that might be approaching detrimental to your Life depending on who you pick a fight with (I suggest avoiding the local biker bar).

*For those who don't know Changquan is "Longfist"

Yoshi, are you suggesting that we should fabricate cons for the sake of argument? That's what it sounds like to me. Very strange. Seriously.

 

[Steve]

Yoshi, I think that MJS, Jarrod and everyone else who has tried to approach this discussion seriously, has been careful to qualify their statements appropriately and to be clear.

To try and answer your question... or more accurately, to rebut your assertion that there is always a pro and a con, there are many situations in which there is either no pro or no con. Eating one's vegetables is, for most people who have no specific allergies, a definitively positive act with no perceivable downside. You only get healthier by eating well.

Giving to charity is a good thing with no down side. I don't think you'll find anyone out there who will say, "No," if you ask them, "Hey. Is giving to charity a bad thing?"

Trying each day to act with integrity. I would challenge you to provide a con to seeing one's doctor for regular checkups or brushing one's teeth three times each day. These are all actions that are positive.

At the same time, there are actions with no positive side. Smoking crack, for example. There is an inevitable bad ending to that story.

In this spirit, I suggest to you that, considering the qualifications already mentioned such as time, physical ability, and desired outcome, I believe that crosstraining is a positive thing with no downside.

 

[dungeonworks]

There is always a pro and con to everything

From Reading a book from having sex with woman you just met. There are pro's and con's to drinking wine to eating beef. There are pro's and con's to studying Martial Arts to not studying Martial Arts. If you can not see both pro's and con's of Crosstraining to not cross training? Than I can't help you buddy.

But everything has pro's and con's


The only one thus far to prove that is the Magnificent Xue Sheng who has shared truth with us. He shared both benefits and drawbacks to cross training. I feel there is alot to learn Xue who is both humble and knowledgable.


Stevebjj let me asked?

Do you see and pro's and con's for cross training?

If so name just one Pro and One Con for cross training Two or more arts at the same time?

Xue Sheng Said:


*For those who don't know Changquan is "Longfist"

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Hmm I guess a con would be

If you suck at one martial art then crosstraining you might suck at two arts. :rofl:


Or if you suck at one art cross training might make you less suck.:idea:

 

[paulus]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread. But... one disadvantage of cross training is that you then have less time to devote to one art you might otherwise specialise in.

But that's true of anything you do. The disadvantage of training any martial art is that I have less time to devote to becoming an opera singer.

Surely the disadvantages of cross training would be subjective, and peculiar to the individual's circumstances and experiences. Then it would be better to say "In my experience, I found the disadvantages to be....".

If you suspect that in training martial art A and martial art B you would get conflicting principles (whatever that means) then don't train A and B - find a more compatible combination. If you are worried about getting confused and not knowing which art to draw from when having a fight, then practise more.

But again, I'm not sure what the original poster wants from this thread.

 

[Tez3]

There is always a pro and con to everything

From Reading a book from having sex with woman you just met. There are pro's and con's to drinking wine to eating beef. There are pro's and con's to studying Martial Arts to not studying Martial Arts. If you can not see both pro's and con's of Crosstraining to not cross training? Than I can't help you buddy.

But everything has pro's and con's


The only one thus far to prove that is the Magnificent Xue Sheng who has shared truth with us. He shared both benefits and drawbacks to cross training. I feel there is alot to learn Xue who is both humble and knowledgable.


Stevebjj let me asked?

Do you see and pro's and con's for cross training?

If so name just one Pro and One Con for cross training Two or more arts at the same time?

Xue Sheng Said:


*For those who don't know Changquan is "Longfist"

Absolutely no pros and cons there for me I'm afraid.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Once again you prove my point...To everything you just said I find con's and pro's

You may not see them. But thanks to College and studing on my own I see them...

Steve said there are no con's to eating ones vegatables?

On the contrary if you over eat or eat a certain vegatable in excess it could cause some health defects. Everything must have a balance. Too much meat is bad for you,Too much sugar and yes sir too much vegatables. A we Now know too much water is bad for you. Like the woman who died from drinking too much water in one day. Her body literally drowned. But to qualify my statement. In college when I studied a Biology I saw a chart of foods which dealth will excess and deficent quanties of certain vegatables and fruits. They also had a name of disorders if you get too much or too little of specific Fruit of Veggie.

Giving to charity can also be detremental to your life. There are people who believe everyword their pastors says. In other words certain churches have people give their whole pay check to church. Some pastor say if you give me your all the creator will rain down on you hundred times as much as you give. These people faith be so strong they give away the mortage money, light bill, gas money and even sometimes life savings. When they are on the street with nothing to show for it but a ticket at the soup kitchen they blame the creator for their mishaps. If they had not given their money in the first place they would have been cool. But too much or excess can be bad in this case too. I had a buddy who made seven hundred dollars a week. He would give the church seventy dollars or more each week. He was faithful with his tithed. When he lost his job...Did the church honor all that giving he gave for two whole years. Did the church help him with his light bill. No, He eventually got evicted when he couldn't find work. So there you go a down side to everything. That Seventy Dollars could have been saved for a rainy day. Like the light bill..

Anyway somepeople give all their money to feed the homeless or feed the poor. But if they give all their money away to the poor then what are they going to live off of. In fact the bible says if you want to be perfect go an sell all your worldly possessions and give the money to the poor. So sell your house,jewlery,applicances,car,stocks,goodly clothing, furniture,stereo equipment, Xbox360 and Wii along with your plasma television and give it all to the poor. Do you think there is not a con there? Or is it all good?

You said something about no Pro's to smoking crack?

What if your dying a painful death and the only pain killers you can get your hands on is crack. Wouldn't that be a con to make your death an easier one. Don't forget if you go to doctor for pain and if its serious enough what do they give you? Morphine. What is cocain anyway? Cocain or coca is just a pain killer. Plus some people say cocain has short time posistive effects. Its just the long term use causes issues. If your arm is cut off. Wouldn't sniffing some cocain numb the pain?

As for tooth paste three times daily...Well a person who brushes their teeth ten times a day is most certiantly at a greater risk for disease and death than a person who brushes his teeth twice daily. Because for one their is Fluoride in Tooth paste...Not good at all for the human body. Plus I have relatives and friends who are doctors or becoming doctors. So these people share with me that posions inside tooth paste. Thats why some people use different types of toothpaste like the organic kind.

Also sometimes cancer patients are advise to use organic toothpaste and organic deordant. So they can live longer with the cancer. The average joe doesn't know about the carnigeons in toothpaste unless they get a disease or have relative who got cancer and told them everything the doctor said...Plus in college we studied some of these vary same topics.

So in conclusion there are pro's and con's to everything. Even studying a martial art. The main problem is you choose not see one. So what I will say in your opinion you can see no pro's and con's you only see the good. Nothing more and nothing less...

Well share a con about studing Wing Chun?

*If you study WC you may become a very good fighter causing thugs or criminals who **** you beat so badly to come back an shoot you seventy times in the chest out of revenge for the **** beating you gave them.

*The con to not studing WC would be those same thugs who would have killed you for beating them now beats you to death because they don't like the color you got on. Since you didn't study WC the con would be you got beat to death!

Those are possible con's for instance this one little boys father will not take him to a karate school to learn karate. This boy express interest in learning a Martial Art. But his father is afraid he might get hurt. So Pro's and Con's are already drawn for this guy's father...Why can't anyone else own up to their pro's and con's out side the magnificient Xue and Paulus?


Great Post Paulus you hit it on the nail!!!!

Time and confliction of specialization which could lead to possible confusion or mixing or fusion of principals....

Yoshi, I think that MJS, Jarrod and everyone else who has tried to approach this discussion seriously, has been careful to qualify their statements appropriately and to be clear.

To try and answer your question... or more accurately, to rebut your assertion that there is always a pro and a con, there are many situations in which there is either no pro or no con. Eating one's vegetables is, for most people who have no specific allergies, a definitively positive act with no perceivable downside. You only get healthier by eating well.

Giving to charity is a good thing with no down side. I don't think you'll find anyone out there who will say, "No," if you ask them, "Hey. Is giving to charity a bad thing?"

Trying each day to act with integrity. I would challenge you to provide a con to seeing one's doctor for regular checkups or brushing one's teeth three times each day. These are all actions that are positive.

At the same time, there are actions with no positive side. Smoking crack, for example. There is an inevitable bad ending to that story.

In this spirit, I suggest to you that, considering the qualifications already mentioned such as time, physical ability, and desired outcome, I believe that crosstraining is a positive thing with no downside.