Is anyone out there STILL a Republican?

[Makalakumu]

Not free. Paid for by the many. Good idea to educate everyone; better idea to educate everyone who wants to be educated.

I was going to go back and put quotes around "free" because I agree with your point. I also agree 100% that we should educate people who want to be educated. After that, you can sink or swim on one's own merits, but all one will ever do without an education is sink.

 

[7starmantis]

but all one will ever do without an education is sink.

I wouldn't call making 20 million a movie sinking would you? There are actually plenty of opportunities for those without "formal" education. I know several extremely successful businessmen and entrepreneurs who are without "education". It is harder and takes alot of work, but I wouldn't say its impossible.

On the other hand, I have two degrees, working on a masters and I still dont work in my field.

7sm

 

[Cryozombie]

So, Upnorth, let me make sure I undertstand what you are saying:

The Republicans are responsible for making this mess, and the democrats are excusable for not fixing it?

 

[Makalakumu]

I wouldn't call making 20 million a movie sinking would you? There are actually plenty of opportunities for those without "formal" education. I know several extremely successful businessmen and entrepreneurs who are without "education". It is harder and takes alot of work, but I wouldn't say its impossible.

On the other hand, I have two degrees, working on a masters and I still dont work in my field.

7sm

I never said "formal" education was the only type of education. Most people only think school, but it doesn't have to be...

 

[Makalakumu]

So, Upnorth, let me make sure I undertstand what you are saying:

The Republicans are responsible for making this mess, and the democrats are excusable for not fixing it?

It depends on what mess you are talking about. If we are talking about the specific issues surrounding federal funding of education, then I would say yes, they are responsible for the most part. The conservative ideology does not support government programs that would give you assistance in this way...thus they consistently block it.

The real question is whether or not they feel that you being blocked from access to student loans because of their actions is a mess?

 

[michaeledward]

I wouldn't call making 20 million a movie sinking would you? There are actually plenty of opportunities for those without "formal" education. I know several extremely successful businessmen and entrepreneurs who are without "education". It is harder and takes alot of work, but I wouldn't say its impossible.

On the other hand, I have two degrees, working on a masters and I still dont work in my field.

7sm

There are exceptions that prove every rule.

A candid look at the available data shows:

High School Degree - Lifetime average earning = $1,100,000.00
Bachelor's Degree - Lifetime average earning = $2,100,000.00
Master's Degree - Lifetime average earning = $2,500,000.00
Doctorate Degree - Lifetime average earning = $4,400,000.00

 

[Cryozombie]

The real question is whether or not they feel that you being blocked from access to student loans because of their actions is a mess?

Yes, I feel its a mess. The difference between me and you is that *I* dont excuse either party of their responsibility to fix it. You want to point fingers at the Republican Party, fine... I will too. BUT I am also pointing them at the democrats, something you seem reluctant to do.

Oh well. Blame is easier than solutions anyhow.

 

[michaeledward]

Yes, I feel its a mess. The difference between me and you is that *I* dont excuse either party of their responsibility to fix it. You want to point fingers at the Republican Party, fine... I will too. BUT I am also pointing them at the democrats, something you seem reluctant to do.

Oh well. Blame is easier than solutions anyhow.

But here and now, the Republicans just made the job more difficult. And today, that is not something you can blame on the Democrats.

Vice President Richard Cheney (Didn't he get an education deferment to stay out of the Vietnam?) returned from Asia to break a 50-50 Senate vote cutting Education funding and seriously limits Medicaid for seniors.

That happened two days ago.

Oh, and incidently, if you look at the population break down of the 50-50 split, because of the way our Senate is organized, the 50 no votes actually represented a great majority of the country.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Oh, and incidently, if you look at the population break down of the 50-50 split, because of the way our Senate is organized, the 50 no votes actually represented a great majority of the country.

Um...which is exactly why the Senate has 100 people, 2 from each state...to keep the 'majority' from beating up on the 'minority' ,legislatively

That is the basic reason we have a bi-cameral legislature with one house based on population and the other giving each state equal vote

Sheesh...of all the things to complain about, don't complain that the mechanics of the governemt functioned exactly as designed just 'cause you don't like the results

 

[Makalakumu]

Yes, I feel its a mess. The difference between me and you is that *I* dont excuse either party of their responsibility to fix it. You want to point fingers at the Republican Party, fine... I will too. BUT I am also pointing them at the democrats, something you seem reluctant to do.

I think you are not giving me much credit here. I tend to look at things on an issue by issue basis. On most issues, I'm very liberal, on a few, I'm more conservative...gun control being one of them. One does not have to ride the center in order to be sincere.

What you are calling blame in this situation is just a fair analysis of this issue. I think that the US government should do everything it can to make sure that people who want education can get it and I oppose people who do not support this.

 

[Cryozombie]

But here and now, the Republicans just made the job more difficult. And today, that is not something you can blame on the Democrats..

And theres a big part of the Problem... "Today" its this groups fault and thats all that matters.

Tomorrow... when you win and the Democrats dont fix it, like they didnt durring Clintons regime, is it gonna be "Today, its the democrats fault and thats all that matters" or is it gonna be "The Republicans made this mess its still their fault."

"Party Politics. The Downfall of America, disguised as the Republicans"

 

[michaeledward]

And theres a big part of the Problem... "Today" its this groups fault and thats all that matters.

Tomorrow... when you win and the Democrats dont fix it, like they didnt durring Clintons regime, is it gonna be "Today, its the democrats fault and thats all that matters" or is it gonna be "The Republicans made this mess its still their fault."

"Party Politics. The Downfall of America, disguised as the Republicans"

Oh, and while you're blaming Clinton ..

He did get put in place $1,500 HOPE tax credit for the first two years of college ... I know because my wife was able to take advantage of it.

After the first two years, he got the Lifetime Learning Tax Credit approved.

Certainly, not as good as it could be. But this was completed with a Republican Congress. Of course, having a shrinking federal deficit made this possible.

 

[Makalakumu]

In 2000, I defected from the Democratic Party and joined the Greens. I was very disillusioned by a few things and wanted to attempt to start a new productive direction. Now, I realize that this was a mistake. My actions, helped get W elected...and that turned me into a pragmatic voter.

So, anyway, part of the "blame" lies with me...hows that for personal responsability.

 

[FearlessFreep]

It balances out, I voted Constitution Party last time

Anyway, I mentioned that in another post. The deck is heavily stacked for the two parties in power right now. Whereas as other countries do their squabbling and coalition building between parties in the legislature, we do it within parties away from the legislature. It's just different and I think ours leads to a bit more stability and efficiency and tends to keep the parties more 'moderate'

 

[sgtmac_46]

In 2000, I defected from the Democratic Party and joined the Greens. I was very disillusioned by a few things and wanted to attempt to start a new productive direction. Now, I realize that this was a mistake. My actions, helped get W elected...and that turned me into a pragmatic voter.

So, anyway, part of the "blame" lies with me...hows that for personal responsability.

Same thing happened with Ross Perot on the right. It balances out.

 

[Cryozombie]

My actions, helped get W elected...

But wait... The election was stolen... by rigged voting machines... so, no they didnt... oh wait, that was the second time around. I forget what the stolen election excuse was the first time.

 

[Cryozombie]

Oh, and for what its worth, I didnt vote for bush Either, so I guess I did.

So much for the Voting Rhetoric, "Go Vote! Every Vote Counts!"

 

[mantis]

to me it's very difficult to find a diff between republicans and democrats
except that democrats do what the republicans do smartly and not as bluntly..
oh and they party harder maybe haha
but it's still hard to believe a huge nation like the americans is only represented in 2 parties!

 

[sgtmac_46]

to me it's very difficult to find a diff between republicans and democrats
except that democrats do what the republicans do smartly and not as bluntly..
oh and they party harder maybe haha
but it's still hard to believe a huge nation like the americans is only represented in 2 parties!

I'll tell you the difference between democrats and republicans, one leans to the left, the other to the right. The people who complain about the two party system are irritated because one of them doesn't lean FAR ENOUGH in the direction they want to go.

A democrat looks like a republican, for example, if you're far enough out on the limb in either political direction.

 

[Makalakumu]

But wait... The election was stolen... by rigged voting machines... so, no they didnt... oh wait, that was the second time around. I forget what the stolen election excuse was the first time.

When the split is 50 - 50, one only has to manipulate 1 or 2 percent. The rest of the votes need to come legitimately.