Iraq: A Decade of Hell

[Makalakumu]

What's wrong with making money?

Nothing, as long as you don't kill anyone. War profiteering is evil.

 

[elder999]

Yes, getting rid of an entrenched monster is not easy or painless, that is why it is done so rarely. Keeping that monster in power, as Ballen points out isn't a great choice either. His time was up, and he is gone. the Iraqi people have a chance to change their lives, and it is now up to them to use that opportunity created at great loss to the American people.

Yes, getting rid of an entrenched monster is not easy or painless, that is why it is done so rarely. Keeping that monster in power, as Ballen points out isn't a great choice either. His time was up, and he is gone. the Iraqi people have a chance to change their lives, and it is now up to them to use that opportunity created at great loss to the American people.

Somoza may be a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****.-Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1939.

The U.S. has had "pet dictators" for more than a century. We still do.See: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia,President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen, Sultan Qaboos bin Said Al-Said of Oman, Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo of Equatorial Guinea, Gurbanguly Berdymukhamedov of Turkmenistan, and, of course, President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan.

A more savvy president than G.W. might have approached Saddam Hussein and enlisted his aid against al Qaeda and the Taliban, in return for lifting of some economic sanctions, economic guarantees, and the use of his country as a base of operations. No shots fired, no lives lost, a feeble move in a gambit for empire replaced with a truly shrewd strategy, and we could always have given him and his sons "cancer," at a more convenient later date, removing those pawns from the board and replacing them with more suitable pieces. It's what his dad would have done, but, as he pointed out, This is the guy who tried to kill my dad.

You remember George Hubert Walker Bush, dontcha? CIA man, President and all around wonderful guy who will take buckets of evil secrets to the grave with him? The man who invaded a country to keep some of those secrets, toppling former pet dictator Noriega of Panama, and arresting him? Never mind that the guy was his son of a *****?

View attachment $bush_noriega.jpg

Of course the family has been friends with the Arabs for decades..



And, once, Saddam was our son of a *****, and those WMDs? Of course he had them-we sold them to him....
View attachment $saddamandrumsfeld.jpg

By the time 2003 rolled around, and we were perched to invade Iraq, Saddam would have been more than happy to be our son of a ***** again. A savvy man-a shrewd and capable man-would have coopted Saddam at that time, instead of wasting billions of dollars, nearly a decade, and countless lives to take a country that really doesn't want us, and is no better for our being there, save for his removal.

You go ahead, though, wave the flag with your face some more. We threw out a "monster," and squandered the entire world's goodwill towards us to become monsters ourselves, but you go right on ahead and wave that flag for all it's worth....

 

[ballen0351]

I think you missed the part where the US and the UK shipped him weapons after he gassed his own people.

But just a bit ago you said he didn't have any weapons of mass destruction you said we went to war on a lie. But he did have them and did use them and killed over a million of his own people. I personally think we should have took him out in the 80s but we didn't. Better late then never. I still don't understand why he gets a pass in your eyes for what he did and its all our fault.

 

[K-man]

and if we hadn't gone in, that whole family may have been " disappeared" by the monster or his monster offspring.

People have already forgotten that because of Colin Powell, we stopped before deposing the monster in the first gulf war...when there would have been a strong Bush lead coalition to put the country back together after that war. we allowed him to sign the ceasefire to end combat, and then he broke every element of that agreement. The Euoropean diplomats in the u.n. we're making a fortune off of the monster by looking the other way as he starved his people and every few months we had to redeploy troops to Kuwait because he moved his troops in a threatening way. He blocked inspectors and at the time we invaded, the inspections, as laughable as they were, were about to fall apart. He constantly attacked allied aircraft, again in violation of the ceasefire, and yet no one remembers these things.

The cowardly Europeans wouldn't do anything about him, Clinton didn't, do anything about him...and then 9/11 happened...remember? he time for codling monsters had come to a brief end...and he was hung and his monster children were killed as well. If the Iraqis fail to make something better out of their country...that is on them...they were given a chance...at a horrible cost to our people.

George Bush senior had enough knowledgable people around him to realise that deposing Sadam Hussain would totally destabilise the region. Leaving him in power was the best of bad options. Clinton had the same information. George junior was influenced by those who had most to gain (arms dealers and oil tycoons) and made the terrible mistake of invading Iraq. Unfortunately he dragged those 'cowardly European's and others into the mire with him.

I'm not sure what 9/11 had to do with Iraq. I suppose it was carried out by Arabs and Arabs live in Iraq. Al-Queda was in Afghanistan and that is why you invaded there if you remember.

But this is priceless ...

"If the Iraqis fail to make something better out of their country...that is on them...they were given a chance...at a horrible cost to our people."

The cost to America and ordinary Americans was one thing although there were many Americans, not so ordinary, who increased their fortunes as a result. The cost to Iraq was a thousandfold worse. You destroyed the only person who could control the country. You destroyed most of the infrastructure. You killed and maimed thousands and you caused the displacement of millions of people. You destabilised the entire region.

Then you walk away and say "if they fail to make something better out of their country ... that is on them!" Priceless!!!

What do you expect them to do now? Hold free and fair elections? Adopt a democratic system of government? All you can show for the horrendous loss of life and waste of money is one great mess ... and you wonder why the people of the Middle East don't like Americans.

You've handed the country back to the warlords just like Afghanistan and they will bicker for the next 1000 years as they have done for the past 1000 years, and their people will suffer greatly for generations as a result.

Looks like I'm on Maka's side on this one! (And Maka, it was meant to be an understatement. )

:asian:

 

[ballen0351]

Somoza may be a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****.-Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1939.

The U.S. has had "pet dictators" for more than a century. We still do.See: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia,President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen, Sultan Qaboos bin Said Al-Said of Oman, Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo of Equatorial Guinea, Gurbanguly Berdymukhamedov of Turkmenistan, and, of course, President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan.

A more savvy president than G.W. might have approached Saddam Hussein and enlisted his aid against al Qaeda and the Taliban, in return for lifting of some economic sanctions, economic guarantees, and the use of his country as a base of operations. No shots fired, no lives lost, a feeble move in a gambit for empire replaced with a truly shrewd strategy, and we could always have given him and his sons "cancer," at a more convenient later date, removing those pawns from the board and replacing them with more suitable pieces. It's what his dad would have done, but, as he pointed out, This is the guy who tried to kill my dad.

You remember George Hubert Walker Bush, dontcha? CIA man, President and all around wonderful guy who will take buckets of evil secrets to the grave with him? The man who invaded a country to keep some of those secrets, toppling former pet dictator Noriega of Panama, and arresting him? Never mind that the guy was his son of a *****?

View attachment 18073

Of course the family has been friends with the Arabs for decades..

View attachment 18074

And, once, Saddam was our son of a *****, and those WMDs? Of course he had them-we sold them to him....
View attachment 18075

By the time 2003 rolled around, and we were perched to invade Iraq, Saddam would have been more than happy to be our son of a ***** again. A savvy man-a shrewd and capable man-would have coopted Saddam at that time, instead of wasting billions of dollars, nearly a decade, and countless lives to take a country that really doesn't want us, and is no better for our being there, save for his removal.

You go ahead, though, wave the flag with your face some more. We threw out a "monster," and squandered the entire world's goodwill towards us to become monsters ourselves, but you go right on ahead and wave that flag for all it's worth....

I'll wave the flag I'll wave it proud. We are the best county there is I don't care who it offends. I'm tired of being the biggest kid in class and being embarrassed by it because were bigger stronger faster then the next guy. We are an easy target until the next tsunami or major earthquake then its come on America we love you help us that's not enough we need more. We bend over backwards for people and then when a nut job attacks us you here the "see you deserve that". Or your chickens have come home. Blah blah blah. You got a president that was supposed to "Fix our image" around the world hell he got a piece prize and everything. Lot of good he's done our embassy get over run and he does nothing.
The rest of the world wants us to but out then don't call us*for help when crap hits the fan. Earthquake crushes Haiti oh well we would live to help but.... Tsunami flattens the south pacific we would love to help but.......... See how vilified we become then.
Sad am should have been killed 30 years ago and we didn't do it. Well he is now and good riddance. You want to pull our troops out let's do it pull them all home they won't mind I'm sure. Then what? The entire world is a corrupt dangerous place how done protect ourselves? Lock down the boarders can't do that its inhumane to the undocumented immigrants. Air port scanners can't do that someone might touch your butt ah the horror, more police no way we don't want to live in a police state. So what do we do? Give out more free crap and hope they like us? Man has been fighting since we got on this planet its in our nature. So what's the solution?

 

[K-man]

I'll wave the flag I'll wave it proud. We are the best county there is I don't care who it offends. I'm tired of being the biggest kid in class and being embarrassed by it because were bigger stronger faster then the next guy.

It's one thing to be proud of your country. That doesn't offend anyone. Most of us can be proud of our countries. It is your opinion that you are the 'best' country. Personally, if I couldn't live in Australia there would be at least twenty other countries I would prefer to go before I would consider the US, and that is my opinion.

But, you hit it on the head when you said you are tired of being the biggest kid in the class and being embarrassed by it. At this time for a number of reasons the US is the richest and most powerful nation on Earth and although it considers itself the world's policeman and benefactor, in reality it is the world's biggest bully, and one day that power balance will change. That is why I have always said, I like Americans but I don't like America. Over the years, America has shafted most of its allies one way or another and that includes the UK and Australia. :asian:

 

[Big Don]

It's one thing to be proud of your country. That doesn't offend anyone. Most of us can be proud of our countries. It is your opinion that you are the 'best' country. Personally, if I couldn't live in Australia there would be at least twenty other countries I would prefer to go before I would consider the US, and that is my opinion.

But, you hit it on the head when you said you are tired of being the biggest kid in the class and being embarrassed by it. At this time for a number of reasons the US is the richest and most powerful nation on Earth and although it considers itself the world's policeman and benefactor, in reality it is the world's biggest bully, and one day that power balance will change. That is why I have always said, I like Americans but I don't like America. Over the years, America has shafted most of its allies one way or another and that includes the UK and Australia. :asian:

You have nuclear ****ing weapons Aussie? Yosemite? Yellowstone? The Grand Canyon? The Great Lakes? Carrier Battle Groups? Airborne DIVISIONS? CA beaches, Florida beaches? Rocky Mountains? Are people so desperate to be Aussies they sneak in by the hundreds of thousands EVERY year?
No. Just a few reasons we are the best.

 

[billc]

An alternative look at the Iran/Iraq war and the use of chemical weapons...and their suppliers...

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/chemical_warfare_iran_iraq_war.php

[TABLE="class: tableborder, width: 900, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 900, align: center"][TABLE="width: 880, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: fontiran, width: 880, align: left"]Indigenous or external sources of supply?
With the exceptions, maybe, of the last two of these different categories of putative Iraqi agent, sources of supply might as well be indigenous as external to Iraq, given the technology implied. Involvement of the last three categories would, in some circles, implicate the USSR as supplier, for the reason that the USSR is said, on evidence that has yet to be solidly substantiated but which has nonetheless attracted some firm believers, to have weaponized all three of them in recent years. For its part, the USSR has expressly denied supplying Iraq with toxic weapons. Reports of Soviet supply attributed to US and other intelligence sources have nonetheless recurred. The earliest predate reports of Iraqi use of chemical weapons in the Gulf War.

Official Iranian commentaries, too, have pointed to the USSR as a supplier of the Iraqi weapons. These sources have also accused Brazil, France and, most conspicuously, Britain of supplying the weapons. No basis for any of these Iranian accusations has been disclosed. France, alongside Czechoslovakia and both Germanies, is reportedly also rumoured, among "foreign military and diplomatic sources" in Baghdad, to have supplied Iraq with chemical precursors needed for an indigenous production effort. Unofficial published sources have cited Egypt as a possible supplier of actual chemical weapons. In the mid-1960s, when Iraq was alleged to be using chemical weapons against insurgent Kurdish forces, Swiss and German sources of supply were reported in the Western press. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: tableborder, width: 900, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 900, align: center"][TABLE="width: 880, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: fontiran, width: 880, align: left"]ORIGIN OF THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS

The UN report provides only negative evidence of the origin of the mustard gas sample. The absence in the sample analysed in Sweden and Switzerland of polysulphides and of more than a trace of sulphur indicates that it is not of past US-government manufacture, for all US mustard was made by the Levinstein process from ethylene and mixed sulphur chlorides. That process is also said to have been the one used by the USSR. From similar reasoning, British-made mustard, too, can probably be ruled out, even though substantial stocks were once held at British depots in the Middle East. For more positive evidence other sources of information must be used.

Over the years since the mid-1960s quite a lot of information has been published purporting to describe Iraqi chemical weapons, but much of it is contradictory and all of it is of a reliability which SIPRI is in no position to judge. A major caveat must be entered: chemical warfare is such an emotive subject that it lends itself very readily to campaigns of disinformation and black propaganda, campaigns which the politics both of the Gulf War and of the current chemical-weapons negotiations have unquestionably stimulated to no small degree.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[billc]

Yes, and stalin, one of the biggest, socialist mass murderers in history was our ally against the other socialist mass murderers, the Germans under hitler. The world is a big nasty place, and you can't pick and choose only the nicest and best people to help fight the other monsters in power around the globe. I enjoy how the nations that benefit from the U.S. military, and then spend all their money on social welfare programs, complain about the U.S. Well, we are tapped out and the liberals are going to hollow out our military...enjoy defending yourselves, you may have to give up that free medical care so you can by some tanks, planes and ships...self defense is expensive.

 

[elder999]

An alternative look at the Iran/Iraq war and the use of chemical weapons...and their suppliers...

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/chemical_warfare_iran_iraq_war.php

No, Bill. That's not "alternative." It's B.S.:BSmeter: :lfao: Actually, testimony entered into the Senate record in 1994 conclusively demonstrates that U.S. corporations sold dual use precursors to Iraq more than 500 times between 1985 and 1989. No less than the CDC shipped biological precursors to Iraq-at least 10 times during the same period. While Iraq doubtlessly obtained weapons from the U.S.S.R., and had their own program to develop chemical and biological weapons, the materials needed for those programs were clearly obtained from the U.S.-Saddam may not have kept the receipts, but the companies involved kept invoices, and the U.S. Commerce Department authorized every last shipment made.....

 

[Scott T]

You have nuclear ****ing weapons Aussie? Yosemite? Yellowstone? The Grand Canyon? The Great Lakes? Carrier Battle Groups? Airborne DIVISIONS? CA beaches, Florida beaches? Rocky Mountains? Are people so desperate to be Aussies they sneak in by the hundreds of thousands EVERY year?
No. Just a few reasons we are the best.

A rather self-centered post. Nuclear weapons? only a warmongering fool would consider WMD's (or any machine built for the sole purpose of causing the deaths of others) as a point of pride. As for natural landmarks and immigration: Don, you really don't know much about Australia, do you? Yet another way you made yourself look like a fool with this post. It's sad, really.

 

[Makalakumu]

But just a bit ago you said he didn't have any weapons of mass destruction you said we went to war on a lie. But he did have them and did use them and killed over a million of his own people. I personally think we should have took him out in the 80s but we didn't. Better late then never. I still don't understand why he gets a pass in your eyes for what he did and its all our fault.

Saddam was an evil little imp perched on demon Bush's shoulders. When he got in the way, that crew smashed him with the Hammer of Morgoth. The little people in the way were literally called bugsplat.

I don't think the US should be spending my tax money before I was even old enough to earn any to put people like Saddam in power in the first place. The whole foreign policy is rotten. Yeah, I've heard the whole "fix a mistake" bit too, but that doesn't hold any water when you consider all of the other monsters the Imperial government has on leashes all over the globe.

The foreign policy is the problem.

 

[billc]

Dual use...

And this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

In the early 1970s, Saddam Hussein ordered the creation of a clandestine nuclear weaponsprogram.[SUP][24][/SUP] Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs were assisted by a wide variety of firms and governments in the 1970s and 1980s.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP][SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP][SUP][29][/SUP] As part of Project 922, German firms such as Karl Kobe helped build Iraqi chemical weapons facilities such as laboratories, bunkers, an administrative building, and first production buildings in the early 1980s under the cover of a pesticide plant. Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of mustard gas, sarin, tabun, and tear gassesin all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manufacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin for germ warfare. In 1988, German engineers presentedcentrifuge data that helped Iraq expand its nuclear weapons program. Laboratory equipment and other information was provided, involving many German engineers. All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin. The State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP) ordered culture media and incubators from Germany's Water Engineering Trading.[SUP][30][/SUP]

Italy gave Iraq plutonium extraction facilities that advanced Iraq’s nuclear weapon program along with 75,000 shells and rockets designed for chemical weapons.

Between 1979 and 1982 Italy gave depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium. Swiss companies aided in Iraq’s nuclear weapons development in the form of specialized presses, milling machines, grinding machines, electrical discharge machines, and equipment for processing uranium to nuclear weapon grade. Brazil secretly aided the Iraqi nuclear weapon program by supplying naturaluranium dioxide between 1981 and 1982 without notifying the IAEA.

About 100 tons of mustard gas also came from Brazil.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]

France also provided glass-lined reactors, tanks, vessels, and columns used for the production of chemical weapons. Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was of French origin. Strains of dual-use biological material also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program.

All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin.

Wow, with all these "chemical weapons," being provided by just about everyone...wow, it was crazy for us to think that he had them...when he wouldn't let the inspectors look around...

 

[billc]

Ah yes...and the rest of the story...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_biological_weapons_program

Startup and foreign suppliers

In the early 1980s, five German firms supplied equipment to manufacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin to Iraq. Iraq's State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP) also ordered culture media and incubators from Germany's Water Engineering Trading.[SUP][1][/SUP] Strains of dual-use biological material from France also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program. From the United States, the non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples to Iraq up until 1989, which Iraq claimed to need for medical research. These materials included anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism, as well as Brucella melitensis, and Clostridium perfringens. Some of these materials were used for Iraq's biological weapons research program, while others were used for vaccine development.[SUP][2][/SUP] In delivering these materials "The CDC was abiding by World Health Organization guidelines that encouraged the free exchange of biological samples among medical researchers..." according to Thomas Monath, CDC lab director. It was a request "which we were obligated to fulfill," as described in WHO and UN treaties.[SUP][3][/SUP]

"The CDC was abiding by World Health Organization guidelines that encouraged the free exchange of biological samples among medical researchers..." according to Thomas Monath, CDC lab director. It was a request "which we were obligated to fulfill," as described in WHO and UN treaties.[SUP][3][/SUP]

[edit]

The simple answer...never trust the U.N.

 

[K-man]

You have nuclear ****ing weapons Aussie? Yosemite? Yellowstone? The Grand Canyon? The Great Lakes? Carrier Battle Groups? Airborne DIVISIONS? CA beaches, Florida beaches? Rocky Mountains? Are people so desperate to be Aussies they sneak in by the hundreds of thousands EVERY year?
No. Just a few reasons we are the best.

Unfortunately, yes we have thousands of people disparate to be Aussies trying to sneak in. If I could I would tell them how great America is and redirect the boats across the Pacific.

Yosemite? Yellowstone? The Grand Canyon? The Great Lakes? CA beaches, Florida beaches? Rocky Mountains? Breathtakingly beautiful. Would love to go to Yellowstone one day, Florida I think I could do without and the rest I have visited. America is a beautiful country, no doubt. We can challenge anything you care to throw with The Great Barrier Reef, Uluru, Kakadu, Flinders Ranges, the Red Centre, Cradle Mountain, beautiful beaches, etc.

nuclear ****ing weapons Aussie? Carrier Battle Groups? Airborne DIVISIONS?
Yeah, we'll that's sort of what I was referring to in my post. It's not the fact that you have those things, just how you use them. That's what can make The US a bully. France has nuclear weapons, Britain has nuclear weapons but I haven't seen them running round threatening other nations with them.

But these things do not make you the best. How you behave as a Nation makes you the best. You have a dysfunctional political system that polarises the country and paralyses your government. Because you have military power you can pick and choose who you will invade next to keep your armament industry making a fortune for your politicians. You subsidise your farmers to overproduce then dump that produce in the overseas countries that your allies are trying to sell unsubsidised produce to. You have an outdated constitution that you think is the envy of the Western world. You like to run round with guns, shooting at anyone you consider a threat, causing the deaths of thousands of your citizens each year. You don't want to provide the umbrella of health care that every other first world country takes for granted.

America is a beautiful country, almost every American I have met is a warm and generous person. I love to visit the US but I would not choose to live there. :asian:

 

[billc]

And who gave the sample to Iraq...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Type_Culture_Collection

The American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) is a private, not-for-profit biological resource center whose mission focuses on the acquisition, authentication, production, preservation, development and distribution of standard reference microorganisms, cell lines and other materials for research in the life sciences. Established in 1914 and originally incorporated by scientists in 1925[SUP][not verified in body][/SUP] to serve as a worldwide repository and distribution center for cultures of microorganisms, the ATCC has developed into the global leader[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] in research and development expertise for identifying, characterizing, preserving and distributing a wide range of cell lines and microbes. Aside from maintaining the biorepository, an R&D program and a product development team, the ATCC also competes for federal grants and contracts and engages in partnerships and collaborations with academic institutions and private companies.

Supply to Iraqi weapons program [edit]

ATCC supplied Iraqi organisations, including Baghdad University, with several pathogens between 1985 and 1989. These include Bacillus anthracis (the causative agent of anthrax), Aspergillus fungal cultures producing the mycotoxin aflatoxin), Brucella melitensis (causing brucellosis),Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium perfringens, E. coli and Salmonella cholerae-suis. [1].
This frequently cited list, however, includes both difficult-to-obtain, highly dangerous organisms like anthrax and common, easily identified organisms found in most or all households worldwide, such as the principal aflatoxin producer Aspergillus flavus, a species especially ubiquitous on peanuts or in maize corn fields, and E. coli, found in all animal guts and most natural waterways. [SUP][1[/SUP]

 

[jks9199]

Folks, I don't think the topic here is who's nation is best. We could argue that all day, until Chiun stepped in and informed us it was Korea. Let's get back to the original topic, and avoid nationalistic jabs.

 

[billc]

What was that about Australia...

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/98

Survival today condemned Australia's treatment of Aborigines as 'appalling'. Survival's Director General Stephen Corry said, 'The Australian government seems hell-bent on doing everything it can to deny Aborigines their internationally-recognised rights, especially their land rights. Its stance can only be described as racist, and seems like a throwback to attitudes 30 years ago. Recent government legislation will make it very difficult for many Aborigines to reclaim land now occupied by huge ranches.'

Oh...I guess I should stop...and now back to the thread...

 

[K-man]

What was that about Australia...

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/98

Oh...I guess I should stop...and now back to the thread...

WTF this has to do with Iraq!

But, I'm not averse to rolling in the gutter with you.

Australians have a dark history when it comes to the treatment of our indigenous people. We deprived them of their land, their rights and their identity. Fortunately in the past 40 odd years we have been trying to redress the situation. Currently the Aboriginal people have land rights over 11% of Australia including much of the area rich in oil and minerals. We have about 550,000 people who claim to be 'Aboriginal'. Out of a population of 23,000,000 that makes them 2.4% of the population with 11% of the land and another 500 claims in the pipeline. That is 854,000 sq kilometres in area or 211 million acres.

Health and education are other difficult areas because most of these people live in remote communities. As a result life expectancy and infant mortality are much worse than the general population. But, a lot of taxpayer funds are directed at improving it.

Now, how does that compare with your treatment of indigenous Americans?

Oh! I'm not sure about the author of the article but we don't have 'ranches' in Australia. :asian:

 

[ballen0351]

It's one thing to be proud of your country. That doesn't offend anyone. Most of us can be proud of our countries. It is your opinion that you are the 'best' country. Personally, if I couldn't live in Australia there would be at least twenty other countries I would prefer to go before I would consider the US, and that is my opinion.

But, you hit it on the head when you said you are tired of being the biggest kid in the class and being embarrassed by it. At this time for a number of reasons the US is the richest and most powerful nation on Earth and although it considers itself the world's policeman and benefactor, in reality it is the world's biggest bully, and one day tha t power balance will change. That is why I have always said, I like Americans but I don't like America. Over the years, America has shafted most of its allies one way or another and that includes the UK and Australia. :asian:

Like I said its easy to call us bullies until you want something. We are bullies until the next natural disaster strikes and then not just the US Govt but we as a people start donating millions of dollars to help out other nations. The next super volcano eruption and there will be campaigns to text " fire" to donate 10 bucks to help the poor people in some place over never heard of.
I agree out govt has screwed over people name one that hasn't. But I asked what should be done and nobody has answered that. Should we have gone into Iraq because of 9-11? No I don't think it was related. Should we have taken out sadam yes I'm not sorry he's gone.