Blood for Oil??

[Makalakumu]

There is one thing that I want EVERYONE to understand before one even takes a position on this. Oil is liquid sunshine. Oil is literally fossilized photosynthesis. The food chain base of our entire entire existance is photosynthesis. When we use oil, we expand our base, artificially, for a short time, because we are tapping into the scant and fleeting supplies of sunlight trapped by geologic processes.

The scientific, darwinian, management of this country understands this. The Straussian philosophy that underpins the current administrations policies beleives that normal people are incapable of dealing with such truths.

Are you really too stupid to understand the importance of oil? This is a rhetorical question, btw. Just think about it and make up your own mind.

I understand perfectly the need to invade Iraq and reposition our military for the national interest. I disagree with the concept of taking things that do not belong to us.

 

[navyvetcv60]

There is one thing that I want EVERYONE to understand before one even takes a position on this. Oil is liquid sunshine. Oil is literally fossilized photosynthesis. The food chain base of our entire entire existance is photosynthesis. When we use oil, we expand our base, artificially, for a short time, because we are tapping into the scant and fleeting supplies of sunlight trapped by geologic processes.

The scientific, darwinian, management of this country understands this. The Straussian philosophy that underpins the current administrations policies beleives that normal people are incapable of dealing with such truths.

Are you really too stupid to understand the importance of oil? This is a rhetorical question, btw. Just think about it and make up your own mind.

I understand perfectly the need to invade Iraq and reposition our military for the national interest. I disagree with the concept of taking things that do not belong to us.

Fleeting Supply?? Prove it! Recent Geological surveys say "the Plant is awash in oil"
Will the planet eventually run out of oil?? Maybe, maybe not, but definitely not in our life time, and by that time we'll have other sources for energy.
Don't lose sleep over the amount of oil on planet earth, it's really not an issue.

 

[Makalakumu]

Fleeting Supply?? Prove it! Recent Geological surveys say "the Plant is awash in oil"
Will the planet eventually run out of oil?? Maybe, maybe not, but definitely not in our life time, and by that time we'll have other sources for energy.
Don't lose sleep over the amount of oil on planet earth, it's really not an issue.

Alright man, I have a BS in Geology and I could post a bazillion links to people who are insiders in the petroleum industry that have studied the matter in depth.

I can tell you from my own personal studies in this matter. You are dead wrong. I have watched the oil come out of the ground. I have calculated the data. I KNOW how an oil field depletes and what its ACTUAL production limit might be.

Will our planet run out of oil? Yes. It doesn't matter if you subscribe to the biotic or abiotic theory of oil production or not. Our planets mass is 6X10^24 kg. That ain't going to change unless a celestial body impacts our home. What this means is that the oil we have now WILL EVENTUALLY RUN OUT!!!!

The real point that everyone seems to miss is that its not a question of if, its a question of when. How fast? You seem to believe that it won't happen in your lifetime.

Well. You are right. It won't. 200 years from now, someone will be pumping oil from the ground. Will we be burning it to subsidize our suburban lifestyle? Absolutely not! Why? Because its so god damned expensive that it'd be like burning solid gold in your gas tank.

Catch my drift?

It's all a matter of economics. If you knew how much of your life was subsidized by cheap and easily accessible fossil fuel energy, you'd at least be concerned by the "up coming" production peak. Because you've been so dumbed down and lied to and force fed propaganda in our schools you are going to have the tendancy to blame everyone else for the economic misfortunes that are coming our way.

Fight it. Read about Peak Oil. Understand what PNAC is. Turn off your TV. Buy some books...and then, when you know enough, buy some guns because you'll know that this country is going to hit a rough patch.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Sukerkin]

Which is of course why we're building a load of new nuclear power stations despite intense public opposition to them (which is no bad thing for me because I'll be working on the control systems for their electricity distribution networks).

I also have a few friends who are geologists and process engineers who work for the oil companies and they don't agree with the confident position espoused above.

Now, noone wins an internet argument, so I'll cut everyone here a deal. Let's review this at 5, 10 and 20 year intervals (assuming we live) and we'll see who was right.

I'm confident in my views as the situation currently stands but information changes so I'm quite willing to sit at a keyboard in two decades time and admit to being wrong if that's how things pan out.

 

[Big Don]

There could bea HUGE pool of oil under ANWR, but, we'll never know, the environmentalists won't let us look. There IS quite a lot under the Gulf of Mexico, but, our environmentalists won't let us get that either, nor are we allowed to drill off the CA coast. Gee, the Cubans don't have a problem with the Chinese drilling in the Gulf, and I bet their practices aren't nearly as environmentally sound as American oil companies are...

 

[Big Don]

By the way, the ocean liners of days gone by didn't go away because the government forced them out of business, they went away because flying is faster, ergo, better. The government did not fund airlines in order to run shiplines out of business, the course of business and the free markets forced them out. Not allowing American oil companies to use the markets and yes, live and die by them screws us all.

 

[Makalakumu]

Which is of course why we're building a load of new nuclear power stations despite intense public opposition to them (which is no bad thing for me because I'll be working on the control systems for their electricity distribution networks).

I also have a few friends who are geologists and process engineers who work for the oil companies and they don't agree with the confident position espoused above.

Now, noone wins an internet argument, so I'll cut everyone here a deal. Let's review this at 5, 10 and 20 year intervals (assuming we live) and we'll see who was right.

I'm confident in my views as the situation currently stands but information changes so I'm quite willing to sit at a keyboard in two decades time and admit to being wrong if that's how things pan out.

Heh, that's assuming that you even have a keyboard. In 20 years you'll either have an inplant or we'll be in the post carbon chaos stage.

Screw global warming. We'll hit a limit regardless.

 

[Big Don]

Which is of course why we're building a load of new nuclear power stations despite intense public opposition to them

Sadly, our environmentalists have entirely too much power on this side of the pond and will not allow that. They'd rather we had no power than nuclear power.

 

[Makalakumu]

There could bea HUGE pool of oil under ANWR, but, we'll never know, the environmentalists won't let us look. There IS quite a lot under the Gulf of Mexico, but, our environmentalists won't let us get that either, nor are we allowed to drill off the CA coast. Gee, the Cubans don't have a problem with the Chinese drilling in the Gulf, and I bet their practices aren't nearly as environmentally sound as American oil companies are...

When you understand how an oil deposit (magnetically neutral) affects the overal magnetic signature of the surrounding rock and then realize that this can be detected by satallite, you'd realize that every major deposit has actually been mapped on earth. There are no secrets, only information that is being obfuscated.

If you care to actually look at the data, like I have, in the case of ANWR, we're looking at less then a year of production capacity.

So why are you fighting this fight for? You have nothing gain and everything to lose!

 

[Makalakumu]

By the way, the ocean liners of days gone by didn't go away because the government forced them out of business, they went away because flying is faster, ergo, better. The government did not fund airlines in order to run shiplines out of business, the course of business and the free markets forced them out. Not allowing American oil companies to use the markets and yes, live and die by them screws us all.

Allow me to enlighten you to something...

1 dollar equals n value in joules.

This in no way indicates its "actual" value.

Ponder that for a while...and think about what it implies.

 

[Ninjamom]

Here is a pet peeve of mine - I would LOVE to see someone with the charisma of JFK stand up and challenge our country to eliminate foreign oil dependence within a decade, much the way JFK issued the challenge in 1960 to land a man on the moon within a decade. Forget any whimpy 'challenge' to reduce foreign oil imports by 20%, or goals to 'reduce dependence'.

The solution would be multi-pronged, including the development of domestic oil resources, controlled use of other sources (including shale sands, natural gas, low sulphur coal, etc.), nuclear power, and MASSIVE investments in R&D for technology developments in solar conversion, solar cell manufacturing, battery technology, and power distribution. By allowing such an approach, the long-term benefits in economic growth, improved standard of living, global poverty-fighting, the impact on the funding/sources of Mid-East terrorism, and the positive impacts to the environment would be incalculable.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Brian R. VanCise
MartialTalk Super Moderator

 

[navyvetcv60]

Alright man, I have a BS in Geology and I could post a bazillion links to people who are insiders in the petroleum industry that have studied the matter in depth.

I can tell you from my own personal studies in this matter. You are dead wrong. I have watched the oil come out of the ground. I have calculated the data. I KNOW how an oil field depletes and what its ACTUAL production limit might be.

Will our planet run out of oil? Yes. It doesn't matter if you subscribe to the biotic or abiotic theory of oil production or not. Our planets mass is 6X10^24 kg. That ain't going to change unless a celestial body impacts our home. What this means is that the oil we have now WILL EVENTUALLY RUN OUT!!!!

The real point that everyone seems to miss is that its not a question of if, its a question of when. How fast? You seem to believe that it won't happen in your lifetime.

Well. You are right. It won't. 200 years from now, someone will be pumping oil from the ground. Will we be burning it to subsidize our suburban lifestyle? Absolutely not! Why? Because its so god damned expensive that it'd be like burning solid gold in your gas tank.

Catch my drift?

It's all a matter of economics. If you knew how much of your life was subsidized by cheap and easily accessible fossil fuel energy, you'd at least be concerned by the "up coming" production peak. Because you've been so dumbed down and lied to and force fed propaganda in our schools you are going to have the tendancy to blame everyone else for the economic misfortunes that are coming our way.

Fight it. Read about Peak Oil. Understand what PNAC is. Turn off your TV. Buy some books...and then, when you know enough, buy some guns because you'll know that this country is going to hit a rough patch.

upnorthkyosa

Hell, this guy has a degree, so what he's saying must be true, my bad for being contrairy.
Sorry, i can't be that easy, Look at my profile, i work in industrial valve automation i work everyday ( Monday-Friday ) with oil companies and oil well drillers EVERYDAY, i've also seen the oil, i've had it all over me working on the platforms at sea and well's on the ground, and the people i work with has a totally different opinion then you do.
Also, you don't have to keep telling me to read books, I read all the time, when i'm not at my computor or practicing my Kung-Fu
Regarding the Guns, on my profile you'll see that i'm a Life Member of the National Rifle association, i have more firearms then most, and the ammunition to support those firearms, trust me!
Regarding the propaganda coming out of our schools,this is one of my fav. issues, I'm a product of the Government run schools, that is why my son went to a small private school. I would'nt send my dog to a Public ( Government ) run school.
I'm out.

 

[Marginal]

Because Sadaam's only interest in his country for building or maintaining infrastructure during the last ten years was immediately around the capital and squarely within the confines of his own Tikriti home-bro's. The rest of the country (populated largley by Shi'ites, Kurds, and Marsh Arabs), was left to rot. Sadaam used the proceeds of his oil kickbacks to buy more political favor. In order to promote a stable, functioning society, the first thing the US did upon arival after Gulf II was to rebuild the collapsed infrastructure in the neglected non-Sunni areas.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10971/

 

[Empty Hands]

There could bea HUGE pool of oil under ANWR, but, we'll never know, the environmentalists won't let us look.

Geologists say there are about 10.4 billion barrels. I suppose they know that from meditating or using dowsing rods.

There IS quite a lot under the Gulf of Mexico, but, our environmentalists won't let us get that either,

I suppose this drilling must be imaginary.

nor are we allowed to drill off the CA coast.

So when I saw all those oil derricks less than a mile off the coast when I was running in Huntington Beach, that must have been imaginary too.

 

[Makalakumu]

Hell, this guy has a degree, so what he's saying must be true, my bad for being contrairy.
Sorry, i can't be that easy, Look at my profile, i work in industrial valve automation i work everyday ( Monday-Friday ) with oil companies and oil well drillers EVERYDAY, i've also seen the oil, i've had it all over me working on the platforms at sea and well's on the ground, and the people i work with has a totally different opinion then you do.
Also, you don't have to keep telling me to read books, I read all the time, when i'm not at my computor or practicing my Kung-Fu
Regarding the Guns, on my profile you'll see that i'm a Life Member of the National Rifle association, i have more firearms then most, and the ammunition to support those firearms, trust me!
Regarding the propaganda coming out of our schools,this is one of my fav. issues, I'm a product of the Government run schools, that is why my son went to a small private school. I would'nt send my dog to a Public ( Government ) run school.
I'm out.

At the very least, I'm glad you've chosen to make up your own mind on this issue. I think your collegues are wrong though. We will have your day of reckoning regarding oil and it won't be pretty.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Read 1984 by George Orwell and The Crito by Plato. 'nuff said.

 

[Ninjamom]

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10971/

What explains Iraq’s lack of electricity?

Iraq has generated roughly 4,000 megawatts per month since the fall of Saddam in March 2003, well short of the American government’s stated goal of 6,000 megawatts per month. .............The reasons for these lingering electicity shortages are multifold. “We misjudged the environment,” says Frederick Barton, co-director of the Center for Strategic and International Studies’ Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, “and decided to do the simplest solution, which was to build or refurbish large, centralized facilities, and misjudged there was going to be chronic sabotage, looting, and other things.” A better plan, he says, would have been to set up neighborhood generators, run by locals, capable of reaching between forty and fifty houses. “If there were a problem, everyone would know where to go to solve it,” Barton says. Iraq’s power outages are also due to interruptions at the micro level, experts say, which include damaged transmission lines from insurgent attacks and insecure relay stations.

Again, note that the shortages and damage to infrastructure is not a consequence of any direct US military action. Infrastructure was not bombed by coalition forces. It is being actively targeted by the insurgents.

 

[Marginal]

Again, note that the shortages and damage to infrastructure is not a consequence of any direct US military action. Infrastructure was not bombed by coalition forces. It is being actively targeted by the insurgents.

It was degraded by years of sanctions and further disrupted by the invasion. They have not managed to restore the power to pre invasion levels yet. The insurgents have disrupted the restoration of power, but that's not the same thing.

 

[Makalakumu]

It was degraded by years of sanctions and further disrupted by the invasion. They have not managed to restore the power to pre invasion levels yet. The insurgents have disrupted the restoration of power, but that's not the same thing.

Also, it should be noted that in 91, infrastructure was targeted. It has never recovered.