"Interesting" thread follow up

[Dan Anderson]

"My my my my my, what a mess." Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive.

Well, I go away for a weekend and the nukes go off. Whoooeeey. The timing of the thread lbeing locked off cut off Tim Hartman's viewpoint regarding the is there a jungle bolo or not. He began the thread and was going to post after the weekend camp. So let him post.

It has been contended that the initial post was a cheap shot at Bram Frank. Well, let him speak his mind. It was also contended he fired a cheap shot at me. Folks, thank youfor the support but let me be offended if offense is going to be taken. I don't take offense. I don't think Tim was firing a shot at me, covertly or overtly. He and I agree to disagree on the MA-80 point. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. I do want to see his take on the locked thread, though.

That's not what I'm trying to say, but Bart got the idea. There are a couple of interesting topics in this thread that we could discuss.
__________________
Datu Tim Hartman
World Modern Arnis Alliance
www.wmarnis.com
Lead by Example, Follow by Choice.

Okay, Tim. Camp's over, time to discuss.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Emptyglass]

Hear hear. I would also like to see Mr. Hartman's take on the subject as the whole bolo/Modern Arnis/bladework angle is of great interest to me. Please discuss.

Rich Curren

 

[Dan Anderson]

Careful.....its like a minefield around here lately.... (hope I didn't divert your thread there Dan) (oh.oh Im no longer a "jewel in the rough")

No. Just want the man to be able to speak his part.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Rich Parsons]

Please keep the thread on topic.

Thank You

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Assistant Operational Administrator

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just an FYI - Tim just finished running the MartialTalk Buffalo camp, and went straight into a week long kids camp at his school. Give him some breathing room as you folks who've done these things can relate to the challenges.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Kaith,

Sorry - I can't buy that. I've spent enought time with him to know that he can be a night owl when he wants to be. He started a thread which turned into somewhat of a knock on Bram and then turned into a food fight. His opinion of what it was about should come to the forefront. I am running a summer camp all summer long. I run a school until 9:00 PM. I just got back from a 6 hour drive from Canada last night. It doesn't wash. The sooner he comments, the sooner this can be laid to rest.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Flatlander]

Is there a missing post here? Where'd Tgace's quote come from? Where is this going? I just don't understand. Why is this a big deal? I thought everyone was discussing in the first place...I didn't see badness there. What did I miss? I should probably just shut up, but I'm certain I'm not the only clueless idiot. Am I? God I hope not.

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

Okay guys, get a life. Tim just finished the Martial Talk camp and went right into a kids summer camp. Right now, he's working on a rattan order. He has to be at the school in less than an hour. And he still has a home life....I'm not high maintenance, but I do enjoy spending time with Tim. Dan, especially you should understand this point. There have been times when we've e-mailed you and not gotten a response for weeks. When we finally hear from you, your excuse is that you had "family matters" to deal with. Isn't Tim allowed a personal life? Why am I any less important than your wife or family? Why does he need to stop what he needs to be doing just because YOU want an answer? Paraphrasing Tim - they can kiss a certain part of his body!
:whip:

Janice

 

[DoxN4cer]

YAWN...

Did somebody say something?

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:whip:

 

[bart]

Hey Guys,

It seems like this thing is heating up again. Please, let's not risk closing the thread AGAIN. I'd like to hear what Tim has to say. Maybe he has nothing to say. Let's discuss this on our own and let Tim chime in or not.

I don't know Bram Frank from Adam. But as a Tagalog speaker I do know that "bolong gubat" sounds pretty weird and kind of off. That's the direct translation of "jungle bolo". In my experience among the lay person a bolo is a bolo is a bolo. It's just as good for chopping coconuts as chicken heads. The differences are only in the manufacturer and the person using it. Filipinos think of a bolo much like Americans think of a hammer. It's a tool that almost everybody has around the house. The kids can't use it till there a certain age. And everybody accepts that it could be and has been used as a weapon. But to me "jungle bolo" has the same ring to it as "forest hammer". It's not too weird, but it makes just as much sense.

So my suspicion is that the term is used by a small minority of people in one part of Negros or that GM Presas coined the term himself and passed it on to Bram and others. Maybe "jungle bolo" sounds better in Bisaya than Tagalog. I concede that bolo could be used as a general term and that for instance a "pinuti" would be a type of bolo. Also, just because the term strikes me as odd, doesn't mean that the techniques won't work and that it's not legit blade work. I don't favor the blade anyway and I haven't seen the DVD's, so I don't know. People I respect seem to think it's good stuff and without looking at it myself, I'm not going to pass judgement. It's only the term that I have reservations about.

Just my two cents on the matter.

 

[DoxN4cer]

Great input, Bart !!! It's good to get the view of a Tagaolg speaker, I'm a Taglish speaker myself, with some Ilonggo and Cebuano thrown in to add to my confusion. I thoroughly enjoyed your post.

Tim Kashino

 

[Cruentus]

Cool input, Bart...I am going to actually cut and past it over in the "agricultural bolo vs. fighting bolo" thread, then comment.

:asian:

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I'm a Taglish speaker

Tim-
Troppo difettoso che la vostra comprensione della lingua inglese non è buona quanto il vostro ordine di "Taglish". Che quando qualcuno fa un punto valido, ritenete il contatore di bisogno con un commento ignaro.

Just in case you are not a polyglot, and your command of the Italian language is as good as your command of English:

Too bad that your comprehension of the English language is not as good as your command of "Taglish". It is unfortunate that when someone makes a valid point, you feel the need counter with an ignorant comment.


Janice

 

[Dan Anderson]

Okay guys, get a life. Tim just finished the Martial Talk camp and went right into a kids summer camp. Right now, he's working on a rattan order. He has to be at the school in less than an hour. And he still has a home life....I'm not high maintenance, but I do enjoy spending time with Tim. Dan, especially you should understand this point. There have been times when we've e-mailed you and not gotten a response for weeks. When we finally hear from you, your excuse is that you had "family matters" to deal with. Isn't Tim allowed a personal life? Why am I any less important than your wife or family? Why does he need to stop what he needs to be doing just because YOU want an answer? Paraphrasing Tim - they can kiss a certain part of his body!
:whip:

Janice

Hi Janice,

Nice to hear from you. Sorry about any upset I've caused you. Yes, you are as important to Tim as Marie is to me. Yes, he has a home life. Tim and I both know that he does not need to do ANYTHING on account of me. Kaith just said, Tim just finished running the MartialTalk Buffalo camp, and went straight into a week long kids camp at his school. Give him some breathing room as you folks who've done these things can relate to the challenges. He said nothing about family life. From chats you and I have had, you know how important my family is to me and you are absolutely correct in saying that especially I should understand that. I do.

The thread went from "Hey, look at this." to a possible slam on another friend of mine. Tim's is the only viewpoint not heard from yet and he is the one who started the thread. That is the only point I'm making.

Again, I am going to be the last person to interfere with anyone else' family life. especially when I have seen how well you two get along. That is definitely not my intention.

Yours,
Dan

PS - Tell Tim thanks for the offer but there's only one behind I kiss. Marie definitely wouldn't understand.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Bart,

Good post. I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the name jungle bolo. As far as I know it's more of "a bolo for fighting in the jungle" than a proper name. Maybe RP said it was a jungle bolo. I'll ask him the next time I email him.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

He said nothing about family life.

Should anyone have to say anything about their family life?

Before anyone gets all upset, I didn't realized Tim didn't log off before I made my post.

Janice

 

[Dan Anderson]

Should anyone have to say anything about their family life?

Janice

Hi Janice,

No, not really. It explains to me why the delay in his reply. That's all. Usually he's quite quick to respond.

Yours,
Dan

 

[bart]

Hey There,

Some of these comments could have and should have been done by PM. Please take advantage of that capability should you want to say something personal about someone to someone else. Someone or another's behind and kissing said behind are not valid topics in this thread. Those who are upset should take a deep breath and be mature before commiting words to a public forum. There is a lot of energy here. Let's keep it lively but not hurtful.

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

Hi Janice,

No, not really. It explains to me why the delay in his reply. That's all. Usually he's quite quick to respond.

Yours,
Dan

Dan-

It's a shame that the others aren't as understanding as you are. :asian:

JAS

 

[Joe Eccleston]

Very good post, bart... In addition, I was told that 'gubat' in Bisaya also means 'war'. War Bolo? Now, a question, if most of the Eskrimadors came from the Visayas region of the Philippines, why are the majority of the terminology in Tagalog (i.e. Laban Laro, bolong gubat, etc.)? It seems there has always been historical politics regarding Tagalog and Bisaya. Did Mr. Presas use Tagalog exclusively for his terms, or is this something new among his students? (He was Bisaya, correct?). :asian:

Hey Guys,

It seems like this thing is heating up again. Please, let's not risk closing the thread AGAIN. I'd like to hear what Tim has to say. Maybe he has nothing to say. Let's discuss this on our own and let Tim chime in or not.

I don't know Bram Frank from Adam. But as a Tagalog speaker I do know that "bolong gubat" sounds pretty weird and kind of off. That's the direct translation of "jungle bolo". In my experience among the lay person a bolo is a bolo is a bolo. It's just as good for chopping coconuts as chicken heads. The differences are only in the manufacturer and the person using it. Filipinos think of a bolo much like Americans think of a hammer. It's a tool that almost everybody has around the house. The kids can't use it till there a certain age. And everybody accepts that it could be and has been used as a weapon. But to me "jungle bolo" has the same ring to it as "forest hammer". It's not too weird, but it makes just as much sense.

So my suspicion is that the term is used by a small minority of people in one part of Negros or that GM Presas coined the term himself and passed it on to Bram and others. Maybe "jungle bolo" sounds better in Bisaya than Tagalog. I concede that bolo could be used as a general term and that for instance a "pinuti" would be a type of bolo. Also, just because the term strikes me as odd, doesn't mean that the techniques won't work and that it's not legit blade work. I don't favor the blade anyway and I haven't seen the DVD's, so I don't know. People I respect seem to think it's good stuff and without looking at it myself, I'm not going to pass judgement. It's only the term that I have reservations about.

Just my two cents on the matter.