Interest in an EPAK specific forum?

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
anonypussy strikes again.

Clyde

HHmmm...speaking of anony. people- I've noticed that some people in your little group Clyde dont bother to put their info in the profile---no name, no rank, nothing. Rather than say things about others, why dont you say something about your own guys!!!

Mike

 

[clapping_tiger]

Just a plain and simple explanation is, that in my opinion setting up an EPAK Kenpo forum once again widens a gap in the kenpo community. Ok EPAK over here, and you guys over there. That is one thing that is wrong with Kenpo, too much seperation. We should all come together and learn from each other.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by arnisador
This can be done. However, I haven't received a request like this before. We're discussing it now.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

Good. I voted "undecided," but I would like to change my vote to a "no." So, please change my vote when you figure out how to do so.

I don't do Kenpo, as I have said. So...why should my vote count at all? Because...I care about this board, to answer simply, and this decision effects the entire board.

Why do I vote "No" now?

The premises of Martial Talk that Bob has been trying to capture is that feeling that you have when your kickin' back with a cold one after a grueling Martial Arts Seminar, and shooting the breeze. You may talk about nothing (like in the locker room), you may talk about General Martial Arts stuff (like in the General Forum), you may talk about your art (like in your art specific forum), Or you may talk about politics or religion (like in the study). Conversations may stay light, or they may get heated, but in the end, we all walk away friends.

And...more importantly...no one is told to leave because of who they are and what they train in. Sure, one may be told to stay on topic, but they aren't told to go away. I feel that an EPAK forum will be mostly filled with arguements as to what/who is true EPAK and what/who isn't. This isn't within the spirit of MartialTalk. I feel that an EPAK forum will degenerate, thus degenerating the entire board to a degree.

I used the analogy of FMA and Modern Arnis specific forum, thinking that this idea could work. This was the wrong analogy.

Modern Arnis can be specifically defined as "an art who's linage is Professor Remy Presas." So it is easy to figure out what to talk about on that forum. Kenpo can be defined as "an art who's linage is Ed Parker" (for the most part, although I know not all Kenpo traces to Ed Parker, but most on this board does, so I don't think that this was the problem), which is why there is the seperation between the "Karate forum" and the "Kenpo forum."

So, we have a Kenpo forum and a more general Karate forum, and we have a Modern Arnis Forum and a more general Filipino MA forum. This formula is already working out just fine.

So...a better analogy?

A better analogy would be if Modern Arnis Forum were to segment to "Professor Presas Modern Arnis" or "PPMA" forum. So we'd now have "Modern Arnis" and "PPMA." "PPMA" would be designed to segment those who do Pure Professor Presas Modern Arnis from others who may have added or subtracted from Modern Arnis. This sounds good on the surface, but (houston) we have a problem!

Problem....what is pure Professor Presas Modern Arnis? Professor is dead. We have a bunch of different organizations carrying the art, all claiming the same linage, all believing their moving in the direction Professor wanted, and all believing that they have Professor art in it's purity. Yet, all the methods are different. If this were to happend in Modern Arnis land, in a "PPMA" specific forum, every thread would degenerate into arguements over who/what is Pure Modern Arnis, and who/what isn't. This is not the spirit of MT.

I feel that the same would happened if you had EPAK specific forum. What is pure EPAK and what isn't? Ed Parker is dead, and you now have a bunch of Organizations carrying the art in different directions, same as Modern Arnis. So...I think that an EPAK forum would degenerate the same way, as the conversation has to a degree on this thread.

So...I recast my vote, and now you all know why. I don't see an EPAK specific forum as being a good thing at this time, as I see that it will segregate rather then bring people together, thus violating the whole premises of MT. If people want to talk only their version of what they believe is EPAK specific, then I think they should start their own site and talk forum where only those who do their accepted version of EPAK will be on the site. There is nothing wrong with that, but I just don't think it belongs here.

My 50 cents, Dawgs.


:asian:

 

[Fastmover]

A couple of points.

1. It really is too bad that this string has sunk to name calling and tantrums. I think some self control is in order. Maybe we should start a new forum for this, "If you must throw a tantrum, go here
to do it!"

2. I think cd Hall made some excellent points in his post.

It would seem to me and it has been stated as so, what folks
want is a forum to discuss EPAK as it is setup in Vol 5. Of course
I have no problem with these and actually I think it is a good idea. However..............to base EPAK soley on the sequences of the techniuqes and forms as they were written is a little short sighted in my opinion. Again its my opinion, its not the sequences of motion that make up Amercan Kenpo and by far it is not the strength of the system. The strength of the system and what I beleive defines EPAK is the concepts, principles and theories. This has been discussed in depth before, but still we find ourselves back to the same question. What is EPAK? Certainly the "system" as it is presented in Vol 5 is not all there was from Mr Parker. There is no way that Mr Parker could have put his entire system in a book not only because of the lack of space, but why would he freely expose his entire art?

As a result we all have to listen to those 1st generation Parker Black belts if we really wish to learn what EPAK is all about. The problem is we in Kenpo cant respect each individuals personal experience under Mr Parker enough to give these folks credit for what Mr Parker taught them. Again it is my personal opinion, but Mr Paker did not leave the system of Kenpo hidden in a book for us to read years later. Instead he left his system in the hands of his students to pass on to the generations to come.

I still think if this new EPAK forum becomes a reality, it should be
called "Traditional Ed Parker American Kenpo." Why not call it what it is?

Just My Thoughts

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Shiatsu

Do you know how many of the upper belts that GM Parker promoted have changed certain things? Yet they still call it EPAK or American kenpo. It is called respect:asian:

If I go by your definition of respect Mr. Parker must not have had very much respect for William K.S. Chow. Ofcourse, there are many sources that say the opposite, Mr. Parker being one of them.

I've never seen Mr. Parker label his system "Ed Parker's American Kenpo"... If I am not mistaken he always refered to Kenpo as "our" art (meaning everyone's art).

Oh and Shiatsu, I know many of Mr. Parker's black belts. Every one of my instructors has been a first generation black belt of his. For many of them the term "American Kenpo" works just fine. :asian:

 

[satans.barber]

If a discussion about a split causes this much arguing, imagine what an actual split would do!

I'm sticking by my 'no'

Ian.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The scrabbling and such happening in here is what I'm afraid will happen if we do create it.

The vote count is very close, with enough folks interested for us to seriously question the creation.

Before we can 'create' we need to define the 'charter' so folks know what to expect, etc. If you can't create that without degenerating into insults, namecalling and disrespect, how can we trust you'll behave if we grant the request?

On the topic of 'who will moderate', our existing Kenpo mods would initially assume that role. We would then watch for a reasonably neutral leader to emerge and approach him or her at a later date.

I can see a great deal of benifit...I can also see a great deal of headache. If we're gonna do this...lets do it right. k?

:asian:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
The scrabbling and such happening in here is what I'm afraid will happen if we do create it.

The vote count is very close, with enough folks interested for us to seriously question the creation.

Before we can 'create' we need to define the 'charter' so folks know what to expect, etc. If you can't create that without degenerating into insults, namecalling and disrespect, how can we trust you'll behave if we grant the request?

On the topic of 'who will moderate', our existing Kenpo mods would initially assume that role. We would then watch for a reasonably neutral leader to emerge and approach him or her at a later date.

I can see a great deal of benifit...I can also see a great deal of headache. If we're gonna do this...lets do it right. k?

:asian:

Hey Bob, really, forget I asked about this, I'll post on the EPAK at CanAm and leave the cult members here. I can't believe some of the stupid reasons some of these idiots here have for saying no, and they don't even do EPAK. I do realize the average IQ for America is around 100 but it seems to have dropped considerably here with these posts. Don't worry about it, this place has been going to hell in a handbasket in the Kenpo/Kempo forum for a few months and I thought if you divided it, it might bring some order to it. Guess not.

Clyde

 

[Cruentus]

Yea...everyone here is stupid, and your the smart one.

Nice mullet, by the way!

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by PAUL
Nice mullet, by the way!

Thanks, I just LOL'ed blackcurrent juice all over my keyboard!

No disrespect at all Clyde, it just made me laugh!

:rofl:

Ian.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by PAUL
Yea...everyone here is stupid, and your the smart one.

Nice mullet, by the way!

Seems obvious, your is a possessive pronoun, you're is the contraction for you are.

Clyde

 

[clapping_tiger]

You know, with all this name bashing and calling everyone else stupid and such. I wonder why Clyde has not been suspended. He seems to have no respect for anyone else's opinion but his own.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by clapping_tiger
You know, with all this name bashing and calling everyone else stupid and such. I wonder why Clyde has not been suspended. He seems to have no respect for anyone else's opinion but his own.

Fine with me, I could really give a crap.

Clyde

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Fastmover
I think if this new EPAK forum becomes a reality, it should be called
"Traditional Ed Parker American Kenpo."

That's it........ and all are invited to join in.

:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

So what is up with the anger all the time? I am wondering since I hate to lose the connection with you, and your input, (when you are being genuine and helpful).

I know the "flavor" of CANAM is different and if you are happier there, that is your choice, but something has changed recently (within the past 4-6 weeks) and you just seem pissed off all the time. Maybe this is not the place to air it, but since it came up here I am starting a dialogue here, we can finish off line or by email. You have my phone number and private emails, (I think?) If not, I know Billy does.

It seems like you object or have a heated opinion that degenerates into a condescending tone, then to anger, and then to "I am not going to discuss this", and I hate to say it, but the dynamic is, usually Robert and always Billy, are there to take your back. In all fairness, Robert almost always maintains his decorum on line. Billy, you are saying "yeah, what he said, cuz I am here and you are not!"

Guys, what has happened to you? To your perception of this Board, or to the actual forum itself (admins, mods, or other members?) Just cause not everyone agrees that an EPAK specific forum is the best thing, plenty of people do agree with you. This whole, "well forget it" thing seems like just the tip of the iceberg, and there is a lot more of an issue than you are sharing. As a result, the anger comes across as pretty petty at times, not just by you, but by others responding.

Let me know if you want to visit about it PM, phone or otherwise. I would like to know just because what is presented now days is not the picture I have of you in the real world.

Concerned,
-Michael

 

[Fastmover]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
they don't even do EPAK.

Clyde

Well we found our judge and jury.

Again I have no problem with an EPAK forum, but until someone
can step up and define the scope then what is the point. Since
it is Clyde's idea then he should step up and explain what he has in mind.

Also Clyde you call everyone else a cult but you are the one pushing for "Kenpo segregation."

Just my thoughts........

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by clapping_tiger
You know, with all this name bashing and calling everyone else stupid and such. I wonder why Clyde has not been suspended. He seems to have no respect for anyone else's opinion but his own.

I have been staying away from MT for a while but it seems to me that Clyde takes too much heat.

While Clyde may not be the most polite member of MT, he can speak English, type and converse about Kenpo in a manner consistent with Mr. Parker's teachings. Those qualities should not be the exception.

I don't know if he is always attacking other people's opinion but I have seen him correct other people's "facts" several times such as he did above with his lesson on "your" and "you're."

If he is running wild abusing everyone then I think that is a moderator issue. Maybe we need to double the guard in the in the Kenpo section if behaviour is as widespread a problem as it would seem here on this thread.
:shrug:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Clyde, you say things like trust you we don't do what you do. Well Judging from your behavior on this thread, I cant see wanting to be part of an organization you hold a 6th degree in. Yes I know I ended a sentence with a preposition. There is not need for you to point that out. You can just go tell Billy how to spell congratulations or somthing.
Sean

 

[Les]

I don't like to see all the personal insults that are going on here, but I want to say this.....

Like just about everyone here, at some time or another, Clyde has posted something that has got me riled. Now and then, he posts something that I agree with too.

I've never met Clyde, nor even spoken to him on the phone, and if I did I may not much like him anyway.

But by coincidence, I was speaking on the phone today with a VERY high ranking Kenpo Black Belt, who does know Clyde, and his name came up in conversation.

I'm not going to share the content of a private conversation, but in general terms, I heard this.

Clyde does not suffer fools gladly.

Clyde is willing to help people.

If someone's opinion and attitude p*ss*s Clyde off, he'll have his say and thats the end of it.

When Clyde is on the mats, he can 'put his money where his mouth is.'

I know others who have met Clyde, some liked him, some didn't, but even Clyde is entitled to his opinion, and deserves respect.

Just the same as everyone else on this forum, Clyde should be able to post his thoughts without being insulted.


:soapbox:


Les

Mind you, a decent haircut wouldn't hurt him

 

[Kenpomachine]

Maybe what Clyde's looking for is a forum in which, when somebody asks about a certain techniques, set or form, it is in some form or another in the mind of all the people reading the messages.

It may also be good for novices who enter in the kenpo forum and find a thread about a nunchaku set 1 or whatever-its-name and think, "if we ain't doing this, then, is my teacher fooling me?" or anything similar.

But then, most of the people who starts thread in the existing kenpo fora are already EPAK, so why divide it?

I went for undecided...