IKCA Karate Connection.

[Ray]

I may be way off base, but I liken using videos to using notes. I can use my notes to refresh my memories about techniques that I learned in class; but I can't use other people's notes to learn new techniques (at least not very well).

 

[Doc]

I may be way off base, but I liken using videos to using notes. I can use my notes to refresh my memories about techniques that I learned in class; but I can't use other people's notes to learn new techniques (at least not very well).

No sir, I don't think you're off base. As a general refresher to material taught by a competent teacher, you would be correct. It is like reviewing your notes, and is an appropriate use of the technology. We do the same, but our tapes are available to all in-house without charge for classroom review. Our coursebooks are also available in class on computer for review to insure everyone is on the same page in instruction.

 

[Kenpodoc]

And its still true today as much as it was then, however modern Chinese arts have taken on the same commercialism as everyone else. Even in China the government promotes a Budhists Monk Shaolin Show for the tourists and has a traveling road show much like the Cirque Du Soleil. That's where "Wu Shu" comes from. A created performance Art has taken over because it makes money and fulfills the expectations of westerners as to what "Kung fu training" is about even in the east. Real masters, Chinese or otherwise, are hard to come by everywhere.

First of all he wasn't a "haole" and the "Chow" connection meant something in certain circles. Parker was very smart, likable, and learned very fast. However the initial school where he landed was Ark Wong's Kwoon in Los Angeles's Chinatown, the same school where I started. This was an "open" school of the day but they only taught what they wanted to who they wanted. It wasn't until I left there and met Parker did he put what I had learned into a context I could begin to try to understand.

And its still that way. Nothing has changed. The problem is some think what they are getting is "advanced information." Everything is relative, and from my perspective I don't see it. Of course you have to define what is advanced for yourself.

Bottom line is the sense of entitlement pervades most societies, and everyone feels they "have" the right to be able to do everything. That's why "video instruction" is so popular. Real masters think its a joke, but then others convince themselves of its worth because that is what they want to do, and they are "entitled" to somehow learn or teach and/or make money. The truth is you could go your entire life and never be exposed to someone who actually has advanced information, and you will never get it from a book or film no matter what. Of course if your standards are low enough, you may be satisfied. Yeah Bruce Lee screwed everybody and convinced people you could boune around a create your own "system." The truth is you can create your own personal art designed just for you, but teaching others is another story. For myself, I've been as lucky as any guy could be, and been exposed to and studied with significant masters. Unfortunately, for the most part, they don't exist anymore. Understand from my perspective, starting the arts in the fifties, and watching some claim "advanced or streamlined information" simply because of lineage and/or longevity, is a huge joke.

I hate to say it Doc but your showing your age, :ultracool when you start thinking wistfully of the good old days. I know that there are still masters out there. Now that you are one of the masters they seem less impressive and more human. As to luck, I suspect you created your own luck by looking for the right teachers. You have had the good fortune to be in the right place at the right time, but others were also and they didn't choose your path.

respectfully,

Jeff :asian:

 

[Doc]

I hate to say it Doc but your showing your age, :ultracool when you start thinking wistfully of the good old days. I know that there are still masters out there. Now that you are one of the masters they seem less impressive and more human. As to luck, I suspect you created your own luck by looking for the right teachers. You have had the good fortune to be in the right place at the right time, but others were also and they didn't choose your path.

respectfully,

Jeff :asian:

You young whipper-snapper I'll have you know - Wait! I mean you may have a point there. But I do compare so-called modern masters with those I was exposed to, and they don't measure up. Not even close. The reason this disturbs me is because if we're suppose to be standing on the shoulders of these giants, we should be better. The educational process is suppose to be better now with better teachers, but for the most part it isn't. We are enundated by a bunch of "commercial masters" of "commercial arts" teaching to "commercial students" who think they're getting "advanced information" in strip mall schools full of children wearing significant rank and video games.

"Master" is a relative term. Oddly enough, my teacher Ed Parker didn't consider himself a master. It would be difficult for me to assume a position he didn't. History will judge us all after we're gone amd make that determination. I don't know about "master' but he was definitely a genius without quotation marks.

Thanks Doc (KenpoDoc)

 

[Jagdish]

"And its still true today as much as it was then, however modern Chinese arts have taken on the same commercialism as everyone else. Even in China the government promotes a Budhists Monk Shaolin Show for the tourists and has a traveling road show much like the Cirque Du Soleil. That's where "Wu Shu" comes from. A created performance Art has taken over because it makes money and fulfills the expectations of westerners as to what "Kung fu training" is about even in the east. Real masters, Chinese or otherwise, are hard to come by everywhere."
Sir:

I even heard that Shaolin monks get humiliated from the chinese government.I also heard that true shaolin gung fu is taught in malasia.

"First of all he wasn't a "haole" and the "Chow" connection meant something in certain circles. Parker was very smart, likable, and learned very fast. However the initial school where he landed was Ark Wong's Kwoon in Los Angeles's Chinatown, the same school where I started. This was an "open" school of the day but they only taught what they wanted to who they wanted. It wasn't until I left there and met Parker did he put what I had learned into a context I could begin to try to understand."

So professor Chow was really respected in those circles? I think i red somewhere he wasn't full chinese and due to that fact chinese people didn't accept him.Is this right?


"And its still that way. Nothing has changed. The problem is some think what they are getting is "advanced information." Everything is relative, and from my perspective I don't see it. Of course you have to define what is advanced for yourself."

Yes, many people think they are getting it. However, learning to "shudder" is learning something advance.Don't you think so?

"Bottom line is the sense of entitlement pervades most societies, and everyone feels they "have" the right to be able to do everything. That's why "video instruction" is so popular. Real masters think its a joke, but then others convince themselves of its worth because that is what they want to do, and they are "entitled" to somehow learn or teach and/or make money. The truth is you could go your entire life and never be exposed to someone who actually has advanced information, and you will never get it from a book or film no matter what. Of course if your standards are low enough, you may be satisfied. Yeah Bruce Lee screwed everybody and convinced people you could boune around a create your own "system." The truth is you can create your own personal art designed just for you, but teaching others is another story. For myself, I've been as lucky as any guy could be, and been exposed to and studied with significant masters. Unfortunately, for the most part, they don't exist anymore. Understand from my perspective, starting the arts in the fifties, and watching some claim "advanced or streamlined information" simply because of lineage and/or longevity, is a huge joke."

Re:Bruce Lee: i sometimes feel he was more traditional than most would like to know. It's also very strange that very few people can hit with near same speed & power. It's obvious he left out some pieces from the puzzle.

Using Krishnamurti's ideas he even confused more his followers.

Re:Luck: i think it plays a big role in finding the proper teacher.Chinese people say you will find it with connections or through fate.

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

So here we are...

Back to idolizing Bruce Lee... artyon:

Soon, someone will comment that Mr. Parker knew more than Bruce Lee... :whip:

Then, someone will ask what would happen if Royce Gracie fought Bruce Lee today... :idunno:

Then someone else will try to get back on topic by asking...could you beat both Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie if you watched the IKCA tapes and all the DVD's of the UFC's...and practiced Kata in the air...

Then, someone will hurl an insult... :2xBird2:

Finally, a prudent moderator will lock the thread. :asian:

 

[Sapper6]

So here we are...

Back to idolizing Bruce Lee... artyon:

Soon, someone will comment that Mr. Parker knew more than Bruce Lee... :whip:

Then, someone will ask what would happen if Royce Gracie fought Bruce Lee today... :idunno:

Then someone else will try to get back on topic by asking...could you beat both Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie if you watched the IKCA tapes and all the DVD's of the UFC's...and practiced Kata in the air...

Then, someone will hurl an insult... :2xBird2:

Finally, a prudent moderator will lock the thread. :asian:

i'd say, if you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't post to the thread. just because you are no longer involved in the thread, does that mean all discussion has officially ceased?

have at it guys.

@ Jagdish

hopefully someone can answer your questions without unwarranted sarcasm. good luck in finding your answers.

 

[Jagdish]

Ja, ja, ja,...,that's was funny man! :rofl:

So here we are...

Back to idolizing Bruce Lee... artyon:

Soon, someone will comment that Mr. Parker knew more than Bruce Lee... :whip:

Then, someone will ask what would happen if Royce Gracie fought Bruce Lee today... :idunno:

Then someone else will try to get back on topic by asking...could you beat both Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie if you watched the IKCA tapes and all the DVD's of the UFC's...and practiced Kata in the air...

Then, someone will hurl an insult... :2xBird2:

Finally, a prudent moderator will lock the thread. :asian:

 

[The Kai]

Did Bruce Lee hit that hard?

Kinda odd to think of him as a traditionalist, when every interview he talked of self creating-not that he had much choice

 

[Jagdish]

Did Bruce Lee hit that hard?

Kinda odd to think of him as a traditionalist, when every interview he talked of self creating-not that he had much choice

By some accounts, yes, he did hit hard. He had Fali.

Traditionalist:yes, it' a little bit odd but "here , you call me sifu" and "in china some would find themselves with their front teeth on the floor" is quite disturbing.

Well, history had more warriors...

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[kenposikh]

Hi Jagdish,

Amrik her from the UK I believe we met in Spain several years ago. If so how you doing!!!

 

[The Kai]

By some accounts, yes, he did hit hard. He had Fali.

Traditionalist:yes, it' a little bit odd but "here , you call me sifu" and "in china some would find themselves with their front teeth on the floor" is quite disturbing.

Well, history had more warriors...

Yours,

Jagdish

What is Fali? I really don't unerstand the second part of your post at all! If BL hit so hard you would assume that the 1 street fight he got into he would have dropped the guy!

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

And we are arguing about Bruce Lee's punching ability because...? :idunno:

 

[Jagdish]

Hi Jagdish,

Amrik her from the UK I believe we met in Spain several years ago. If so how you doing!!!

Yeah Amrik:

Things are going great. How is everything there? I usually visit your website every 1/2 months.great site,man!

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[Jagdish]

What is Fali? I really don't unerstand the second part of your post at all! If BL hit so hard you would assume that the 1 street fight he got into he would have dropped the guy!

Power doesn't mean timing, does it?

Fali is issuing power.

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[Jagdish]

And we are arguing about Bruce Lee's punching ability because...? :idunno:

...we are crazy? :uhyeah: :rofl:


I'm sorry ,sir. :asian:

Jagdish

 

[The Kai]

Power is power

 

[Jagdish]

Power is power

Better applied power... :lol:

Re:Traditionalism: The way he talked sometimes, makes you wonder, like the phrases posted in my previous post.

Sorry for any mistake.

Jagdish

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Better applied power... :lol:


Re:Traditionalism: The way he talked sometimes, makes you wonder, like the phrases posted in my previous post.

Sorry for any mistake.

Jagdish

Yes...I remember now..."the style of no style"..."the art of fighting without fighting"

Coming soon...the art of "posting without posting" :yinyang:

 

[searcher]

Yes...I remember now..."the style of no style"..."the art of fighting without fighting"

Coming soon...the art of "posting without posting" :yinyang:

:rofl: Good one. Not to change the subject, but what does Bruse Lee have to do with the IKCA. I know he knew SGM Parker, but it is really not on post.