How to defeat a Wrestler

[Yoshiyahu]

MMA and other mixed martial arts must run its course...this is happening in other styles like Tai Chi...Si-Je...there are styles of Tai Chi that mixed Bagua and Xing Yi...there are even different stlyes of tai Chi that are mixed like sun style and wu style and chen style and yang style...its pretty crazy...I know of form that is very nice..it looks shaolin...but it is mongrel form....it has elements of

Bagua
Tai Chi from "Yang, Chen and Sun"

So this is happening all Chinese MA right now...an I asked a sifu does he teach the pure wing chun system...he says he can give private lessons but they will be very expensive...like hundreds of dollars a class....

I see a market...its great...the Market will be pure Wing Chun or Pure Bagua or Pure Tai Chi....

In about ten years people will thirsty for a pure style in chinese martial arts...or Japanese martial arts will grow in popularity...MMA will persist in popularity...until CMA Purist step up and defeat the MMA's terribly...

But I do agree with some...you have to fight with others from different styles including wrestlers....this will prepare you for anything that may happen in a fight...but your skill level has to be high enough to defeat a wrestler a muay thai fighter a karate man or aikido or judo man.

I would wondered who would win between a highschool or college wrestler verses BJJ?

Personally i like how many of the Judo moves look...if someone was skilled enough to pull those judo moves that would cool...slamming foes on the hard concrete on their heads...although Wing Chun has throws and take downs...some sifu's don't like teaching them...most Wing Chun Kwoons I have seen don't have mats...

But my Sifu fuses other styles with his...but he learn them exclusively...not mixed...his main style would five animals and five elements....he also is very skilled in the WC...atleast more skilled than I...He is able to totally hide his force so you can not sense his intent. Sensitivity almost doesn't work with him...Also he is growing in Tai Chi Chen style...He is Yang Tai Chi sifu ordained by a Chinese master. He also is skilled in Baguazhang...

So when he fights you do not know what he will use...

What? What is his "pedigree" in Wing Chun? How is he an "expert" on wing chun? When did this happen? If you want to swallow a clever marketing ploy to get folks to cross-train into BJJ then that's one thing. But, BJJ techniques and "concepts" have nothing to do with WT/WC concepts. Show me how the 5 principles of WC/WT fit with BJJ technique and concepts.

And why would the physical attributes of a Wing Chun student or practitioner have anything to do with their "need" to compensate for these "short comings" with BJJ? Don't tell me the same old stuff about how BJJ is designed for smaller people defending against larger opponents. I totally disagree from experience and being a smaller person. It does not work on larger opponents. Sigh.
I see here the death of Wing Chun espectially in America. If WC/WT practitioners and teachers alike are supplementing their wing chun with BJJ instead of fully teaching Wing Chun this is a crying shame. And a sham.
But, each to whatever crutch needed. You don't believe in the art, fine. I can't change folk's minds in this, ya'll have already decided this is what you want to do.

 

[Si-Je]

I won't comment on Bruce Lee...I'll save that for someone who could comment better than I. However, as far as the BJJ goes...well, I beg to differ. As I said before when talking about specific techs. I'd rather use a proven escape or counter, instead of trying to figure something out by translating a standup tech to the ground..

I wasn't asking about Bruce Lee I was asking what is this Gracie guys pedigree in Wing Chun? I know where Bruce learned from.

So WC is basically the ultimate art then? Out of curiosity, what is your background with BJJ? How long have you trained in it, and who did you train with? Perhaps its not the art, but the person doing the art. In other words, if you don't have a solid understanding of how to apply something, of course you're going to have issues.

You guys keep saying WC is the ultimate art. lol! I don't even have to say it ya'll say it for me. It's better than BJJ in my not so humble opinion.
My "training' in BJJ has been sparring with students of that art ranging from 1 year to 10 years in BJJ. If they can't "mount" me, or choke me out or put me in a joint lock then I must be doing something right. lol!
I've tried to explain the techniques to you guys numerous times, the concepts of WT ground fighting, and you just won't listen you just refuse to understand it or even try it. I don't know what to tell ya anymore.
I don't need to have a strong solid knowledge of BJJ and give them my money and train it for years. I learn how to defeat it, taken from someone who's already figured out how to do it. It's a simple as that. Hubbie's learned this, his teacher learned this and it's worked for them, It'll work for me or anyone that wants to learn how to do it.
You want to defeat a wrestler, don't wrestle him! Punch his brains out, they think they can take it and train for that, so then, fine. They train to get hit so hit them over and over and over again. Simplicity.

 

[Si-Je]

I don't know why you'd think WT/WC was mainly developed for trapping. My other teacher tells me that there are three schools of Wing Chun, and if you put them all together you'll get the whole system.

There are teachers that focus on the trapping mostly.
There's the Blitz mentality.
There's the deflection school of teaching.
Each teacher usually focus's more on one of the three per their preference. But, put them all together, you'll have the complete art.

Many people get hung up on the trapping, and think that's all WC/WT's about, that everything we do is to that end. This is a big misconception. Trapping is great, if it "happens" you don't try to force it. If you do, it won't work. Sometimes you don't even need to trap, so why try for it all the time. etc....

 

[MJS]

I wasn't asking about Bruce Lee I was asking what is this Gracie guys pedigree in Wing Chun? I know where Bruce learned from.

Ok.

You guys keep saying WC is the ultimate art. lol! I don't even have to say it ya'll say it for me. It's better than BJJ in my not so humble opinion.
My "training' in BJJ has been sparring with students of that art ranging from 1 year to 10 years in BJJ. If they can't "mount" me, or choke me out or put me in a joint lock then I must be doing something right. lol!
I've tried to explain the techniques to you guys numerous times, the concepts of WT ground fighting, and you just won't listen you just refuse to understand it or even try it. I don't know what to tell ya anymore.
I don't need to have a strong solid knowledge of BJJ and give them my money and train it for years. I learn how to defeat it, taken from someone who's already figured out how to do it. It's a simple as that. Hubbie's learned this, his teacher learned this and it's worked for them, It'll work for me or anyone that wants to learn how to do it.
You want to defeat a wrestler, don't wrestle him! Punch his brains out, they think they can take it and train for that, so then, fine. They train to get hit so hit them over and over and over again. Simplicity.

Should I go back and find those posts again, that I pointed out to you?

So, someone whos trained BJJ for 10yrs...should probably be black belt level...and they could not submit you??????

You have your mind made up. You claim that we don't understand WC, and while that may be true for me at least, I can say that you refuse to see what we're trying to say as well. I don't believe I've said that you had to spend years training it. Whats wrong with simply cross referencing ideas with someone who grapples? Hey, if you don't want to add anything, thats fine. You claim that you have beat it. Tell me though...where does the WC anti grappling methods come from?

 

[Si-Je]

Ok.






Should I go back and find those posts again, that I pointed out to you?

So, someone whos trained BJJ for 10yrs...should probably be black belt level...and they could not submit you??????

You have your mind made up. You claim that we don't understand WC, and while that may be true for me at least, I can say that you refuse to see what we're trying to say as well. I don't believe I've said that you had to spend years training it. Whats wrong with simply cross referencing ideas with someone who grapples? Hey, if you don't want to add anything, thats fine. You claim that you have beat it. Tell me though...where does the WC anti grappling methods come from?

oh my god, dude I've DONE this. I've "cross referenced" ideas with many people that grapple for the past two years. I've stated this over and over again, why do you refuse to remember it? We had a 10 year BJJ teacher and teacher of JKD sparr hubbie repeatedly, couldn't get him to the ground. Sure, I could spar with him, but instead I sparred more with his students. I worked with him on ground fighting sure, but he couldn't submit me either on the ground. He couldn't even get Hubbie ON the ground! We all became friends and they'd come over and spar like everyother saturday for months. We've been teaching together for the past 4 years, every MMA, grappler, BJJ had nosed student has come into our classes and wanted to work on ground fighting right away. Hubbie obligizes. I do too at times, but I'm busy running the school, taking care of the kiddo lately. All "matches" have been friendly and fun, but I'm about to be done with that.

Why do you ask me where the WT anti-grappling methods come from? I'd wager you already think you know? That's why your asking me.
It's simple WT philosophy and techniques. Same as when your standing, chi sau with the legs as well as your arms. Watch the video. Ask a question about the technique, fine and good.
You want to know about the origions of anti-grappling ask Sifu Emin. He's hubbie teacher, I've never met him, wouldn't know the origins. Never thought to ask, it seems pretty obvious to me where it comes from. WT concepts and theories methods of fighting. period.

I can understand other WC/WT students may not want to learn this stuff because of the politics linked to Sifu Emin, but that's no reason to leave a BIG hole in your WC/WT defense to the point you have to cross train in a totally different and irrevelant art to the style your studying. ack!
The stuff works. I've yet to see it NOT work.
Your the fellows that have already made up your minds. I don't hear people saying, "hey, yea, I tried that stuff. I trained it for awhile." or " yeah, I sparred with a guy that knows anti-grappling". Not hearing that. Just hearing people avoid conversation on the practicality of the techniques and questions about how does it work.
you want to debate semantics and such fine. I've just been trying to share with other chunners a viable alternative to BJJ, one that is more effecient and true to their art.
But, that's the problem with the art. BJJ is stronger than the Wing Chun community because they are uniformed and united in their style, the techniques, grading, and such in a way WT/WC will NEVER be because people can't let go the old "my kung fu is better than yours", and "my master is better than yours" mentality.
it's a ground fighting system that works created by a master that knows what he's doing.

 

[jarrod]

opcorn:

 

[dungeonworks]

What? What is his "pedigree" in Wing Chun? How is he an "expert" on wing chun? When did this happen? If you want to swallow a clever marketing ploy to get folks to cross-train into BJJ then that's one thing. But, BJJ techniques and "concepts" have nothing to do with WT/WC concepts. Show me how the 5 principles of WC/WT fit with BJJ technique and concepts.

And why would the physical attributes of a Wing Chun student or practitioner have anything to do with their "need" to compensate for these "short comings" with BJJ? Don't tell me the same old stuff about how BJJ is designed for smaller people defending against larger opponents. I totally disagree from experience and being a smaller person. It does not work on larger opponents. Sigh.
I see here the death of Wing Chun espectially in America. If WC/WT practitioners and teachers alike are supplementing their wing chun with BJJ instead of fully teaching Wing Chun this is a crying shame. And a sham.
But, each to whatever crutch needed. You don't believe in the art, fine. I can't change folk's minds in this, ya'll have already decided this is what you want to do.

You missed it completely. Here is a link to a video of one of the seminars I am refferencing with Sam Kwok, disciple of Ip Ching and Ip Chun....Ip Man's sons. He also agrees on this assessment, and seeing his Wing Chun pedigree, who am I to argue with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3jJ-lb7N8A&feature=related

More on Sam Kwok from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Kwok

So, here we have Sam Kwok, a Wing Chun master with undisputable pedigree as to if he learned the "real" Wing Chun and Carlson Gracie Jr., from the family that birthed Brazillian Jiujitsu and proved its worth in many bare knuckle no holds barred and Vale Tudo matches (read: hardly any rules at all, if any...the less restricted and more brutal precursor to MMA). To me, and I am speaking solely on my own behalf here not others, this is quite reputable and not just marketing. Sam Kwok and Carlson Gracie Jr. trained together and were good friends. If these guys, with all of their martial wisdom and experience come to the conclusion that BJJ and Wing Chun work well together, I think it is safe for me to say there is some meat on the bone to chew there. Some may agree, you may not, but I will take their word for it and have a looksey at it. LOL

 

[Hand Sword]

All of this bickering is pointless! If you want to know how to beat a wrestler go right to the ultimate pro for an answer! I'm sure Vince McMahon or one of his writers could write up a script where you come out the winner! (For a small fee of course) Both sides will get their licks in, some foreign objects, Steel cage, etc.. It would be dynamic!

 

[Si-Je]

Painful to watch that video. Looks like their enjoying the marketing benefits. lol! money money money, money!

I like how he demonstrates how hard it is to take someone down when their in WC stance, and then goes ahead and condones teaching BJJ to his students.
Instead of focusing on the art, let just forget that and go ahead and cross train something else.

So, since these masters want to cohoot together to make more money, and their very knowledgable in their respective arts, I should just jump up and conform too. Hey, everyone's doing it! I should too! lol!
Not my style. Ya'll train your BJJ, enjoy. lol! Wondering why this is on a Wing Chun thread to begin with. Here, let me go to the BJJ board and start talking about how WC is so awesome and that all BJJ people just NEED to learn WC for the striking (since their striking is so pittaful lol!)
I'm sure I'd get run right off that board, but I guess folks can do that here on the WC/WT threads. And I should just agree with ya.

 

[MJS]

Painful to watch that video. Looks like their enjoying the marketing benefits. lol! money money money, money!

Likewise, one could say it was painful to watch Emin do antigrappling against someone who a) isn't a grappler or b) isn't trying.

I like how he demonstrates how hard it is to take someone down when their in WC stance, and then goes ahead and condones teaching BJJ to his students.
Instead of focusing on the art, let just forget that and go ahead and cross train something else.

Actually, it shows 2 people who are open minded to training other things.

So, since these masters want to cohoot together to make more money, and their very knowledgable in their respective arts, I should just jump up and conform too. Hey, everyone's doing it! I should too! lol!
Not my style. Ya'll train your BJJ, enjoy. lol! Wondering why this is on a Wing Chun thread to begin with. Here, let me go to the BJJ board and start talking about how WC is so awesome and that all BJJ people just NEED to learn WC for the striking (since their striking is so pittaful lol!)
I'm sure I'd get run right off that board, but I guess folks can do that here on the WC/WT threads. And I should just agree with ya.

Actually, anyone is free to post in any section they would like. If you would like to go to the MMA/BJJ section on this forum, that is fine. Of course, and I'm speaking for myself, but I've said in the past, that BJJ does seem to be lacking in the striking area. That should be evident from watching any of Royce Gracies fights.

You've made it very clear that you're set in your ways. I doubt anyone will change your mind. Sad actually, because there is so much out there, but thats ok, you keep doing what you're doing.

 

[MJS]

oh my god, dude I've DONE this. I've "cross referenced" ideas with many people that grapple for the past two years. I've stated this over and over again, why do you refuse to remember it? We had a 10 year BJJ teacher and teacher of JKD sparr hubbie repeatedly, couldn't get him to the ground. Sure, I could spar with him, but instead I sparred more with his students. I worked with him on ground fighting sure, but he couldn't submit me either on the ground. He couldn't even get Hubbie ON the ground! We all became friends and they'd come over and spar like everyother saturday for months. We've been teaching together for the past 4 years, every MMA, grappler, BJJ had nosed student has come into our classes and wanted to work on ground fighting right away. Hubbie obligizes. I do too at times, but I'm busy running the school, taking care of the kiddo lately. All "matches" have been friendly and fun, but I'm about to be done with that.

Umm...ok

Why do you ask me where the WT anti-grappling methods come from? I'd wager you already think you know? That's why your asking me.
It's simple WT philosophy and techniques. Same as when your standing, chi sau with the legs as well as your arms. Watch the video. Ask a question about the technique, fine and good.
You want to know about the origions of anti-grappling ask Sifu Emin. He's hubbie teacher, I've never met him, wouldn't know the origins. Never thought to ask, it seems pretty obvious to me where it comes from. WT concepts and theories methods of fighting. period.

Well, you can assume whatever you'd like. I asked a simple question. I guess I'm not getting an answer.

I can understand other WC/WT students may not want to learn this stuff because of the politics linked to Sifu Emin, but that's no reason to leave a BIG hole in your WC/WT defense to the point you have to cross train in a totally different and irrevelant art to the style your studying. ack!
The stuff works. I've yet to see it NOT work.
Your the fellows that have already made up your minds. I don't hear people saying, "hey, yea, I tried that stuff. I trained it for awhile." or " yeah, I sparred with a guy that knows anti-grappling". Not hearing that. Just hearing people avoid conversation on the practicality of the techniques and questions about how does it work.
you want to debate semantics and such fine. I've just been trying to share with other chunners a viable alternative to BJJ, one that is more effecient and true to their art.
But, that's the problem with the art. BJJ is stronger than the Wing Chun community because they are uniformed and united in their style, the techniques, grading, and such in a way WT/WC will NEVER be because people can't let go the old "my kung fu is better than yours", and "my master is better than yours" mentality.
it's a ground fighting system that works created by a master that knows what he's doing.

Alrighty then.

 

[Hand Sword]

OK since the sides aren't quite won over yet..to go along with my last post here (and shame on me for forgetting) We can add the WWE Divas too!

(or male hunk for you Si-Je!)

 

[GBlues]

Painful to watch that video. Looks like their enjoying the marketing benefits. lol! money money money, money!

I like how he demonstrates how hard it is to take someone down when their in WC stance, and then goes ahead and condones teaching BJJ to his students.
Instead of focusing on the art, let just forget that and go ahead and cross train something else.

So, since these masters want to cohoot together to make more money, and their very knowledgable in their respective arts, I should just jump up and conform too. Hey, everyone's doing it! I should too! lol!
Not my style. Ya'll train your BJJ, enjoy. lol! Wondering why this is on a Wing Chun thread to begin with. Here, let me go to the BJJ board and start talking about how WC is so awesome and that all BJJ people just NEED to learn WC for the striking (since their striking is so pittaful lol!)
I'm sure I'd get run right off that board, but I guess folks can do that here on the WC/WT threads. And I should just agree with ya.

Here's the thing whether right or wrong, people will base there opinions on things they have seen, heard, or felt. Most of us have seen wc/wt practioners brag about how great there art is in countering grapplers. This being done JUST before a match in the UFC. What happens? THe wc/wt guy gets taken down to the ground and stomped. That is what happened the few times I have seen that particular style in action in the octagon. Now that is not to say that there aren't techniques in wc/wt that can and do deal with that aspect of combat. What it does say, is that those particular practioners were either mislead, or were not taught what you and your husband teach. Or perhaps you a have learned a hybrid form of wc/wt, not knowing it. It could happen. Now you are the one that got this whole tangent going on the verasity of wc/wt versus bjj, or jjj, or any other grappling art. No one is to blame but you. If you rember the first question asked, by the person who started this thread, it was not, "Hey, is wc/wt better for grappling than bjj?" He did not ask that question. He asked, " How do you defeat a wrestler, when your not one?, ( paraphrasing)" He got many different responses some were, " You should consider cross training in some grappling" Yet it wasn't what he was looking for. It was how do you defeat a wrestler while not being one, in other words how does a striker defeat a grappler. YOU, are the one that came on here and said, " YOu don't need bjj, all you need is your wc/wt, don't worry about that other stuff it's worthless." Basically that is what you said, I'm not going to go back through the whole thread to make sure that I get the quote right. That is what you said. YOU got this started.

No one has all of the answers. You know it's like a guy asked about a sucker punch in another thread, one of the responses was, "Block it", yet that kind of defeats the purpose of a sucker punch. By definition you don't see it coming until it's too late, and there fore get punched. THat's why it's called a sucker punch. You just got punched by a sucker.

The same is true with a striker. It is very feasible, to defeat a grappler with only stand up attacks, but you need room. Personally I don't care what anybody says, if a grappler grabs you, and he's good, it's his world, and you'd better be comfortable there, or at least know how to tread water, or your going to drowned. Now just imagine, all the things that you can do with wc/wt:shrug: against a grappler. YOu then add his own tricks to your arsenal how much easier will it be to defeat him, using wc/wt plus his own skills against him. YOu know what he's going to do before he does it. And no sensitivity training is not good enough. Grapplers have sensitivity training to, just in a different way. It's been ingrained in them for the purpose of grappling and nothing else. THe same with any striking art, your sensitivity is ingrained for striking, and facing stiking opponents, and that's it! If you are a purist that is what it is for. The adding is not to take away from your primary art, it is for giving you an otherwise unknown edge, against your opponent. You yourself are cross training now. Your original art was jujitsu, you have said so yourself. THen you switched to wc. Why? Was your jujitsu lacking in something? Probably for you it was. What about your wc, what if it fails you one day? Or you feel that it did? Are you going to then start saying that people should only study boxing? Because wc is worthless? No, because your jujitsu, and wc, have added to your core knowledge of what you can do, and what your oppenent is most likely to do. It's chess. YOu have to plan 5 moves in advance or your just going tit for tat. It goes nowhere. Do you practice shooting in on people to take them to the ground? If not why? What if you are facing another wc practioner and neither can gain an edge? Then what? YOu going to try and take him to the ground having never done a shoot? COuld be dangerous. You've never trained it. This is what these people mean. THey are taking Musashi's advice to heart. His advice was this.
"Know yourself and not your enemy you will win half of your confrontations. Know your enemy and not know yourself, you will win half of your confrontations. KNOW your enemy and KNOW yourself and in a hundred battles you need not fear a loss." Very valuable words from a great martial artist. WHo unlike most practioners today actually fought to the death. He died an old man, of natural causes.There is something to be said for that. THe advice these people gave was heartfelt, and to the best of there knowledge. Just as yours is, but for some reason you are like a baby that holds onto it's mother for comfort when the strong wind blows. You refuse to open your eyes for fear that the fear will be a reality. Your jujitsu failed you somewheres or you feel that it did, and so now you have wc, and so you push it on other people because your heart is in the right place, but your knowledge may be lacking when it comes to true combat. My father feels the same way about grappling as your husband, he thinks it's worthless, but this is not true. It has it's merits, just as wc/wt, or kenpo, or kung-fu, or judo or any other art does. To forsake your previous training for a percieved inadequacy is like trading wives everytime you have to clean a dish. It would be pointless. Instead you focus on the strong points and learn to deal, ( protect) the weak points. I'm going to cut this off here because it's getting long winded and I believe that I made my point. Let's get back please to how to defeat a wrestler when you are a striker. Perhaps some specific techniques that you and the other posters have found work for you. :asian:

 

[Si-Je]

Likewise, one could say it was painful to watch Emin do antigrappling against someone who a) isn't a grappler or b) isn't trying.

That was an instructional seminar. The BJJ video posted by someone stating that BJJ is designed for smaller people to be able to fight against a big person, sent a video of a guy doing BJJ on a skinny tiny boy. Sure he rolled him over afterward, but he was just as "compliant" as Emin's partner in his video.

Your throwing double standards here. BJJ guys can have an instructional video on BJJ but when Emin does it it's weak? Plus, his demo partner was a long time in ju-jitsu and judo, he states that earlier in one of the other 6 parts to that video set.

And how hard would you really try if you knew you were going to get a knee or a foot in the face? You learn really quick that the harder you go in against WC/WT the harder you get hit, that's why we train to be relaxed and flow. This is done standing or on the ground.


[/quote]Actually, it shows 2 people who are open minded to training other things. [/quote]

I've stated many times on here the many other arts I have trained. Sure, it's fun, I've been training in one art or another since I was 10 years old. I'm not "new". lol!
Or "closed minded" to training other arts, but this does seriously affect a wing chun fighter in usually a negative way. Unless they have a good 3-5 years in WT/WC first, or have come from different arts. Ever hear to old addage, "you can't serve two masters?" Do one then the other, to do them at the same time will hurt your training.

Actually, anyone is free to post in any section they would like. If you would like to go to the MMA/BJJ section on this forum, that is fine. Of course, and I'm speaking for myself, but I've said in the past, that BJJ does seem to be lacking in the striking area. That should be evident from watching any of Royce Gracies fights.

You've made it very clear that you're set in your ways. I doubt anyone will change your mind. Sad actually, because there is so much out there, but thats ok, you keep doing what you're doing.

Oh sure, I'll just go to the BJJ/MMA section and "pick a fight" lol! That would be fun, now you mention it. But, it's late and I don't really care what they think of WC/WT. It's other wing chunners thoughts of WC/WT that concerns me. Or actually, I'm finding really doesn't concern me at all, it makes me sad for them to cross-train like this and water down their training, but it really doesn't have anything to do with me personally at all. I should stop taking it so personal. Just love this art and hate to see it go down like this.

I guess hubbie will have to be my kight in shinning armor! lol!

 

[Si-Je]

Seriously GBlues? Your talking about VT guy that went in the ring? I didn't see a lick of anything resembling WT/WC/VT, don't even know where he learned that stuff or if he was even a real student of wing chun.
Sure, I'll just say I'm a kempo master and go in the octogon people will believe me.

And no, you don't need BJJ. I didn't start this thread. This thread was started to discuss techniques for beating a wrestler/bjj/grappler. I've stated some very good techniques, and people just jump on the band wagon that you've JUST GOT TO USE BJJ! I disagree. Simple.

 

[Hand Sword]

Now that would be quite an outfit for the solutions I gave to the question! The promo would be awesome! A knight in armor vs. some cavemen or something! Awesome! "Whatcha ya gonna do wingchunner when these pythons run wild ova youuuuu! Grrr!"

 

[MJS]

That was an instructional seminar.

I figured that by all of the people there. Of course, nothing says that after a slow-mo demo, the pace couldn't have been picked up. Kinda like when I teach a tech. in class. I do it slow, so as to explain whats going on. Then I have the person really throw a strike so it can be seen in real time.

The BJJ video posted by someone stating that BJJ is designed for smaller people to be able to fight against a big person, sent a video of a guy doing BJJ on a skinny tiny boy. Sure he rolled him over afterward, but he was just as "compliant" as Emin's partner in his video.

Sorry, not familiar with the video you are speaking of.

Your throwing double standards here. BJJ guys can have an instructional video on BJJ but when Emin does it it's weak? Plus, his demo partner was a long time in ju-jitsu and judo, he states that earlier in one of the other 6 parts to that video set.

Double standards? LOL! Ok. I think you're missing the point. See my above post regarding doing things slow then fast.

And how hard would you really try if you knew you were going to get a knee or a foot in the face? You learn really quick that the harder you go in against WC/WT the harder you get hit, that's why we train to be relaxed and flow. This is done standing or on the ground.

See above.

Actually, it shows 2 people who are open minded to training other things.

I've stated many times on here the many other arts I have trained. Sure, it's fun, I've been training in one art or another since I was 10 years old. I'm not "new". lol!
Or "closed minded" to training other arts, but this does seriously affect a wing chun fighter in usually a negative way. Unless they have a good 3-5 years in WT/WC first, or have come from different arts. Ever hear to old addage, "you can't serve two masters?" Do one then the other, to do them at the same time will hurt your training.

And I am sure you can find where I've said many times, that anyone who crosstrains should have a base art first, and THEN if they want to look at something else, to do it. I try to avoid suggesting a newbie begin 2 arts at the same time.

Oh sure, I'll just go to the BJJ/MMA section and "pick a fight" lol! That would be fun, now you mention it. But, it's late and I don't really care what they think of WC/WT. It's other wing chunners thoughts of WC/WT that concerns me. Or actually, I'm finding really doesn't concern me at all, it makes me sad for them to cross-train like this and water down their training, but it really doesn't have anything to do with me personally at all. I should stop taking it so personal. Just love this art and hate to see it go down like this.

I guess hubbie will have to be my kight in shinning armor! lol!

Well, yeah, its pretty obvious that you're passionate about the art. I think its apparent to everyone in this thread. I've been doing Kenpo for over 20yrs, so sure, you could say that I'm passionate about that. However, in addition to fully enjoying the other arts I train in, one of the main things it does, is make my Kenpo that much better.

 

[Hand Sword]

Great! But can you Wrassle??????

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Lets go to bjj boards an promote Wing Chun...great idea....

Painful to watch that video. Looks like their enjoying the marketing benefits. lol! money money money, money!

I like how he demonstrates how hard it is to take someone down when their in WC stance, and then goes ahead and condones teaching BJJ to his students.
Instead of focusing on the art, let just forget that and go ahead and cross train something else.

So, since these masters want to cohoot together to make more money, and their very knowledgable in their respective arts, I should just jump up and conform too. Hey, everyone's doing it! I should too! lol!
Not my style. Ya'll train your BJJ, enjoy. lol! Wondering why this is on a Wing Chun thread to begin with. Here, let me go to the BJJ board and start talking about how WC is so awesome and that all BJJ people just NEED to learn WC for the striking (since their striking is so pittaful lol!)
I'm sure I'd get run right off that board, but I guess folks can do that here on the WC/WT threads. And I should just agree with ya.

 

[mook jong man]

There are a lot of variables about the way he can come in , assuming that he is coming in about waist height with his head to one side and both arms are grabbing for the waist .

I can take a small step back to absorb his forward energy or just let one foot slide back in a side step type motion.

At the same time I use a Chit Sau to his near arm to stop the grab ( Don't let him complete the grip ) and if his head is down I bring a Fook Sau down on the base of his skull with a cup shaped hand with great force and if he is still coming forward I push down on his head then direct his face into the concrete .

If his head is up I can use a Chit Sau to the side of his neck or a elbow strike to his collarbone . After any of these I would follow up with knee strikes to the face if need be. If he comes down extremely low then I will try to move my legs back out of his range and match his level by widening my base into a type of low horse stance and try to apply something from there.

As I said there are a lot of variables , what if he comes from the back or the side etc. You have to have some basic knowledge on the ground and in my opinion it doesn't matter what the ground art is .

It is more important that you can be accustomed to being on the ground and not freak out from the sensory overload of having your chest compressed so you can't breathe properly , of having the opponent so close that your vision is obscured , and the anaerobic capacity that is needed on the ground all these things can overwhelm you if you have no experience of it.