How many Kenpo 10th degrees?

[Klondike93]

Hey, I made 3rd Brown last week, so now you have some competition there William



:asian:


Klondike (aka Chuck)

 

[Billy Lear]

E-Mailed to Billy by cdhall
Guys:
I decided that posting this on MartialTalk would in no way be worth it, but I wanted your opinion of it anyway.

Here is what may later become known as the “Lost 10th Brown Post” tell me what you think. I have been out in the sun all day at the Renaissance Festival. Can you tell?

Begin Lost Brown Post:
In the spirit of avoiding controversy and keeping the record straight, I have to put this down on MartialTalk before it is too late and this whole situation gets out of hand.

As you can see in the attached photo Mr. Parker and I go back at least to 1989 when this photo was taken at Jackie's Dance and Gymnasium during a seminar sponsored by Mr. Duffy.

It was while he was signing my notebook here that he told me, and you can clearly see that we are engaged ina conversation, that I should leave the NCKKA and join the IKKA. He told me that such a move would no doubt result in my becoming the first 10th Degree Brown Belt in the IKKA and while no one overheard this (properly) or directly witnessed the event, and while what he wrote in my notebook made no reference to this whatsoever, it is nevertheless an undeniable fact that I did join the IKKA in Sept 1991 after his death with the anticipation of accepting my new rank.

Unfortunately neither Mr. Duffy nor the IKKA would recognize my claim so until now I have not spoken of it publically.

As soon as I recover the rest of my notes from my dream log, I mean my Kenpo Notebook, I'll post more details.

Sorry Billy. I was first. Mr. Parker said so.

There were no witnesses (this of course is very standard, well-documented procedure). I am not self-promoted and my story is a lot better than yours. Besides I was a 3rd Brown Belt for 11 years and since I'm still a Brown Belt I think I have seniority over all the Brown Belts who have ever studied Kenpo at any time in the known (or even unknown) time-space continuum.

But if you send me the money and a nice letter, I might be persuaded to recognize your claim. That $5,000 was in 1990 dollars. I'll get you the new total if you send me a PM. I guess I'll have to hire a secretary now and clear my calendar. I will no doubt be booked for seminars for the next several years. But again, for say 50%, I will let you go out and do some or all of the seminars yourself.
:asian:
End Lost Brown Post

No problem... YOU CAN BE THE FIRST... BUT YOU HAVE TO WEAR YOUR PINK SPEEDO AND BELT WITH PRIDE! :rofl:

 

[jdmills]

That damn pink speedo keeps getting in the way of things.

It's too frightening to even contemplate.

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by jdmills
That damn pink speedo keeps getting in the way of things.

It's too frightening to even contemplate.

It takes courage to be a tenth degree brown belt. Only a man without fear would wear the uniform in public and brave the riddicule from his peers. :asian:

It is a true test of a practitioner's devotion to the art!

Only a select few are special enough to wear the coveted 10th Degree Brown Belt.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Billy Lear
It takes courage to be a tenth degree brown belt. Only a man without fear would wear the uniform in public and brave the riddicule from his peers. :asian:

It is a true test of a practitioner's devotion to the art!

Only a select few are special enough to wear the coveted 10th Degree Brown Belt.

That speedo makes you lok like some kind of confused "Daredevil." "My red one is in he cleaners?"

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Doc
"My red one is in he cleaners?"

Hee heee.......... His used to be red, butttttttttt they used too much bleach and ...... well...... now they are pink.:erg:

:idunno:

 

[jdmills]

Seven ranks below third brown, let's see, green, blue, purple, orange, yellow, white . . . 10th brown.

Interesting. It really works.

 

[Kroy]

pink speedos:barf:

 

[jdmills]

Only a fool is never afraid.

Not me thanks.

 

[sumdumguy]

In speaking with my Teacher one day about some organizational requirements, he told me that traditionally, (maybe this is just what he wanted) an individual should spend the same amount of years in rank as the next rank they were to be promoted to. Now with this in mind I did the math and at the time of Mr. Parkers death in 1990, Not knowing exactly when Mr. ????? was promoted to 7th degree. It would be another 27 years before anyone would even be eligable for 10 degree... Hmmmmm makes me wonder, what are the requirements and who is to say who should and shouldn't be 10th. Don't missunderstand what I am saying because I pretty much disagree with all of them... However not knowing most of them it is not for me to say...
just a thought!!!

 

[Nightingale]

well, what I've heard that Mr. Parker said about his 10th was something like this (not an actual quote, but an approximation):

"I looked at what others have done for the martial arts, and what I've done for the martial arts, and adjusted my rank accordingly."

There are a few people out there who should probably be wearing 10th, and people out there who are wearing it and probably shouldn't be. However, everyone is going to do what they want no matter what anyone says about it. Many higher rank promotions don't have a whole lot to do with actual skill in kenpo, and more in with kenpo politics and/or contribution to the art. As long as you're getting quality instruction, it probably doesn't matter if it comes from a 10th degree black or a 10th degree brown.

Personally, I feel that, no matter what rank you're wearing, you should be able to:

a. look in the mirror and feel honest with yourself when you tie it on
b. be honest about where you received it and from whom and why

Frankly, if you know something I don't that has to do with kenpo, and I have the appropriate opportunity, I'm probably going to bug you to teach me something.

Some of the best kenpo lessons I've had have come from Mr. Lear, our own self proclaimed 10th degree (brown, that is)

 

[Seig]

I see him in that pink speedo and he gets a *Boot to the Groin*

 

[Billy Lear]

My position on tenth degrees, and getting along with others...
The longer you shovel crap you start to smell like it. If you want to sling B.S. around at every one, and cause fights... then that is what you'll be famous for. If you want to be constructive and look past someone's faults (and not exploit them or make a big deal out of them) you might learn something.

In the last year I've developed a different prespective on this... Mostly, because I was wearing quite a bit of what I was shoveling...

All in all I believe we as martial artists should be open minded toward one another... and listen to what they are actually saying...

Mr. Conatser says he only knows of Mike Pick being promoted to fourth. That's a valid point, and is his experience (neither wrong or right, it just is). On the other hand Mr. Idol says that he has heard from many that Mr. Pick was a seventh degree black belt when Mr. Parker died (His expereince is as valid as Mr. Conatser's).

I called a couple of people about this, one of them being Mr. Trejo, and Mr. Trejo says that Mr. Parker introduced Mike Pick as being one of his seventh degree black belts at an instructors camp held at Barbara Hale's school in the late eighties.

Does that mean that Mr. Conatser is wong?
No. It just means that to his prior knowlege, Mr. Pick was not a seventh.

Does that mean that he must accept Mr. Trejo's recollection as the truth?
No. I don't think he does, that's between him, Mr. Trejo, and other various members of the Kenpo community.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I do have my own veresion of the truth as it relates to this topic... and the truth is: Frank Trejo told me that Mike Pick was a seventh before Mr. Parker died.

Does that mean he was?
I don't know I wasn't there, but I am definately compelled to believe Mr. Trejo. He hasn't lied to me yet.

 

[Goldendragon7]

If that is the case, then why at several AKSC meetings when we were ALL disussing .........

ahhhhhhhh never mind.

:asian:

 

[Wes Idol]

Hmmm.

Let's say you, Dennis Conatser, knew someone was lying and you decided to accept a claim publicly to protect...

ahhh, never mind.

WI

 

[Dun Ringill]

This is what gets me, Dennis Conatser was there. He was a personal student of Ed Parker. Wes Idol was not a personal student of Ed Parker. Dennis Conatser's history and stories come from his OWN personal experiences. Wes Idol's are coming from stories he has heard and decided to make his own. The lack of protocol from the Third degree to the Sixth degree is enough to paint a very unflattering picture of the respect and honor in martial arts. Maybe, Mr. Idol, you should post on www.karatemudhut.com where your lack of respect for a senior in the art will be welcomed.

Oss,

Dun Ringill

 

[Wes Idol]

Mr. R.,

I don't know you, nor do you know I. With that said, I've been around long enough in life, Los Angeles and Ed Parker's Kenpo to know "Who's who in the Zoo."

WI, HI
UKS

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by Dun Ringill
This is what gets me, Dennis Conatser was there. He was a personal student of Ed Parker. Wes Idol was not a personal student of Ed Parker. Dennis Conatser's history and stories come from his OWN personal experiences. Wes Idol's are coming from stories he has heard and decided to make his own. The lack of protocol from the Third degree to the Sixth degree is enough to paint a very unflattering picture of the respect and honor in martial arts. Maybe, Mr. Idol, you should post on www.karatemudhut.com where your lack of respect for a senior in the art will be welcomed.

Oss,

Dun Ringill

So Frank Trejo was wrong???

Dennis Conatser was there???

Wes Idol decided to make up his own stories?

Dun, The real question is... How often was who there and when???

Someone is clearly wrong... the thing is... WHO?

Are you going to call Frank Trejo (A senior in Kenpo who practically lived at the Pasadena Studio for decades) a liar??? Mr. Conatser admits that he didn't see Mr. Parker that often. I've asked him on several occassions how many times a year he saw Mr. Parker, and it wasn't that often (maybe 3-4 times a year in Pasadena... maybe a dozen or so times a year on the road...).

Ultimately I think this whole ordeal is sad.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Billy Lear
So Frank Trejo was wrong???

In my opinion .... Yes, but that is just MY opinion.

Originally posted by Billy Lear
Mr. Conatser admits that he didn't see Mr. Parker that often. I've asked him on several occasions how many times a year he saw Mr. Parker, and it wasn't that often (maybe 3-4 times a year in Pasadena... maybe a dozen or so times a year on the road...).

I guess Billy you have a lot on your mind, these days. But if you want true clarity in quoting me...... then do it right and completely.

I told you I saw Mr. Parker "about" 3 to 4 times a year some years and more on others. He was in Arizona for seminars about 2 times a year then I went to Pasadena as often as possible or out of state to where he was teaching.

What you didn't state was that this was consistent over a period of 12 + years, and I also told you we talked on the phone at least 2 to 3 times a week, not to mention other times that I didn't outline for you in great detail, had I known you were going to quote me verbatim I would have taken more care to even give dates and times.

Keep in mind ....... you know what you know or what I have shared with you ....... not everything I know and from whom I had personal experiences or contact with.

 

[Wes Idol]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Keep in mind ....... you know what you know or what I have shared with you ....... not everything I know and from whom I had personal experiences or contact with.

That goes for all of us, DC.

WI, HI
UKS