How many Kenpo 10th degrees?

[kenpo3631]

Dun, I have an ignore option on this thing... I'd prefer not to use it. You can attack my character all you want. You can discredit me all that you want. I'm not anybody prominent, but I am somebody... just like you.

Well said Bill. I agree about the "having the facts straight" theory, but just like in the military, if you make sense it's nonsense:rofl: Know what I mean?

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Well said Bill. I agree about the "having the facts straight" theory, but just like in the military, if you make sense it's nonsense:rofl: Know what I mean?

Been there... I totally know what you mean.

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Well said Bill. I agree about the "having the facts straight" theory, but just like in the military, if you make sense it's nonsense:rofl: Know what I mean?

sorry, i don't know what you mean but i can say this just by looking at this entire thread.

a lot of people claim this and that but guess what ?

they do that AFTER Ed Parker DIED. When Ed Parker was alive, i didn't see anybody claim ANYTHING.

that's my 2 cents.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by jdmills
Come on now, are you seriously saying that Dennis Conatser is merely "someone to travel with him so he could have someone to smack around and pay his own way"? I don't know Mr. Conatser personally but he sure seems like much more than that to me.

I'd go on but the last thing Mr. Conatser needs is a defense from me, he's quite capable of that on his own should he choose to do so.

If you do not like Mr. Conatser, that's fine, but to make these type of condesending statements is not right.

Jim

My statement was not condesending. Simply as I stated, my 21 years of observation.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
If so what do you think?

Parker's Letter to Pick

Yes I have seen it. In fact many years ago. At the time that I read it my reaction was "Nice affermation Mr. Pick" You see it didn't tell me anything that I and everyelse at the time didn't already know. It's significance was lost on me because no one questioned who Pick was or his position. In my political innocence at the time, I never figuered anyone would. Mr. Parker obviously thought otherwise. I wonder if anyone else has a letter of this caliber from Mr. Parker??

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Dun Ringill
If I was a 10th degree, the last people in the world i would want defending me are a Brown Belt and a 3rd degree with no credibility. But I guess that's just my personal opinion.

Oss

And why is it they have no credibility, I'm very curious? Do you know them personally, have you been on the mats with them? If the answer is no to any of the questions you are in no position to judge them.

Clyde

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by Dun Ringill
If I was a 10th degree, the last people in the world i would want defending me are a Brown Belt and a 3rd degree with no credibility. But I guess that's just my personal opinion.

Oss

Way off the mark on that one Dun. Both Billy Lear and Wes Idyl call it as they see it. If they screw up they call themselves on it. I respect the hell out of that and from what I see they are calling it right a hell of a lot more than not. As far as their credibility is concerned, myself and many others consider it to be very high.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by webpage20022003
[.

a lot of people claim this and that but guess what ?

they do that AFTER Ed Parker DIED. When Ed Parker was alive, i didn't see anybody claim ANYTHING.

that's my 2 cents. [/B]

Actually Mr. Web(?) People did try to claim certain things while Parker was alive but because we didn't have the blessing / curse of the internet they weren't very well known. If word did get arround, and it warrented attention, Parker would usually send Pick to straighten it out. As Michael Jr. said in his biograohy of his Dad. "A visit from Michael Pick was either a blessing or a curse"
I have known Mr. Pick for quite sometime. He makes the same claims after Parkers death as before them.

 

[Wes Idol]

Originally posted by Mr. Teymouraz
Wes, I appreciate your loyalty, but you mean to tell me that Mr. Pick never received a certificate from Mr. Parker? If that is the case, then his rank would be at best questionable. I know that Mr. Pick has contributed a lot over the years, and I would never question his knowledge but to say that he was promoted verbally without a few non-biased witnesses would be a very bold statement. Even SGM Parker received a certificate from his teacher signed by a third party, to legitimize his teaching credentials. I personally don't know of anyone in EPAK that has not received some kind of proof of promotion from Mr. Parker, asked or not. This is just not the way an assocation (IKKA) works.

Mr. Teymouraz, Parker walked into Albert Cornejo’s barber shop and took a seat. When the customer left, Parker stood and told Cornejo to hit a horse stance. Parker kicked him, hugged him and told him, “Now you’re a fifth.” No certificate, no belt that was it. Now, Parker and Cornejo had a 25 (or so) year line of weekly shared time, if not monthly (Cornejo was his student as well as barber), certainly if Cornejo wanted to insure there was a certificate, that wouldn’t be hard. Pick was different, he believed only physical contact would certify who he was.

Originally posted by Mr. Teymouraz
In any case you should be loyal to your teachers and their knowledge, but keep an open mind to other opinions as well.

I am, which is why I think the truth of all this matters. I do appreciate your mature offer of dialogue…thank you.

Originally posted by Dun Ringill
If I was a 10th degree, the last people in the world i would want defending me are a Brown Belt and a 3rd degree with no credibility. But I guess that's just my personal opinion.

Well Mr. Ringill,
I guess you and I do not travel in the same circles. To Billy Lear’s Physical/Mental credibility, he can execute and teach all of the material up through his rank. To his Spiritual credibility, he admits when he is wrong without pointing fingers, and calls others on their BS. Basically he has courage. I have also seen a grand source of compassion with him. As for me, it’s clear you don’t know me…that I can’t judge you for.

Originally posted by Clyde
And why is it they have no credibility, I'm very curious? Do you know them personally, have you been on the mats with them? If the answer is no to any of the questions you are in no position to judge them.

As many times in the past, I am totally agreement with you brother.

Originally posted by Marcus Buonfiglio Both Billy Lear and Wes Idol call it as they see it. If they screw up they call
themselves on it.

Good to hear from you Marcus…and thank you for your time and energy.

Originally posted by Dennis Conatser
BTW, all the black Belts I know that were promoted to Black By Mr. Parker "did" receive certificates from Mr. Parker, such as: Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Joe Palanzo, & Huk Planas, just to name a few of the high rankers.

All people that were promoted after Pick, and during a time when the IKKA was still settling in with all of its policies. Yesterday George Waite and I were talking about his certificate that says “holder of a black belt”…..I think we might assume those times of late 50’s to early 60’s were of great change and not too much organization. Otherwise one might assume that you think Pick didn’t get a black belt from Parker because he doesn’t have a certificate…but I don’t assume that.

Originally posted by Danny Farmer
But it seems damned interesting to me that "W" is suddenly so defending of someone who doesn't have paper to back his statements. Most particularly when W was, not too long ago, making all sorts of statements regarding others who would not produce paper to satisfy his whims and desires and rantings.

Actually it was concerning Ron Chapel’s 1st thru 6th blacks, which Parker never promoted Chapel too. This was confirmed by many hearing it right out of Parker’s mouth. On the other hand, many confirmed that Pick got his black belt from Parker…so your comparison is a little off. It’s really more about being truthful.

Originally posted by Danny Farmer It would appear that this type of behavior is ok if W happens to like and respect you, but not if he doesn't.

It’s very simple…don’t lie.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Dun Ringill
This is what gets me, Dennis Conatser was there. He was a personal student of Ed Parker. Wes Idol was not a personal student of Ed Parker. Dennis Conatser's history and stories come from his OWN personal experiences. Wes Idol's are coming from stories he has heard and decided to make his own. The lack of protocol from the Third degree to the Sixth degree is enough to paint a very unflattering picture of the respect and honor in martial arts. Maybe, Mr. Idol, you should post on www.karatemudhut.com where your lack of respect for a senior in the art will be welcomed.

Oss,

Dun Ringill

Great Post!!! I totally agree with you! As a long time student of Mr. Conatsers and one that lives in Arizona, I grow tired of these people who show such disrespect to someone who helps out by dedicating time to helping up and coming kenpoists with questions. Boy I remember as a teenager smarting off to Mr. C and having my *** kicked as a result. I cant believe just because someone gets a black belt they feel they have the right to lash out at "old school" instructors. Mr C. has always explained things based on his experiences thats not to offend anyone its just the way he saw it. In an off the wall comparison, this reminds me of Anakin Skywalker disrespecting Obi-Wan Kenobi feeling his knowledge was better than his masters. I think Mr. Idol would be singing a different tune if he was in Arizona and not disrespectfully disagreeing over a computer. Mr C. sorry if this fuels anything further it just bothers me. As for the tenth degree population boom I think its just plain funny. Degrees really dont matter after 4th or 5th anyway. (correct me if I am wrong Mr. C) People just think they look cooler. Well I'd rather look like an idiot that doesnt know anything and kick your *** than to look like i can kick your *** and not be able to do it. It reminds me of a boxing friend of mine that met Mike Tyson and asked Mike what he thought about champion heavyweight boxers in general. Tyson simply said "Always remember just cause someones a heavyweight champ doesnt mean they are any good." Mr. Conatser should be respected and flat out knows kenpo and its ongoings. I remember Mr. Parker himself telling me this. Enough said.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Ronin
Great Post!!! I totally agree with you! As a long time student of Mr. Conatsers and one that lives in Arizona, I grow tired of these people who show such disrespect to someone who helps out by dedicating time to helping up and coming kenpoists with questions. Boy I remember as a teenager smarting off to Mr. C and having my *** kicked as a result. I cant believe just because someone gets a black belt they feel they have the right to lash out at "old school" instructors. Mr C. has always explained things based on his experiences thats not to offend anyone its just the way he saw it. In an off the wall comparison, this reminds me of Anakin Skywalker disrespecting Obi-Wan Kenobi feeling his knowledge was better than his masters. I think Mr. Idol would be singing a different tune if he was in Arizona and not disrespectfully disagreeing over a computer. Mr C. sorry if this fuels anything further it just bothers me. As for the tenth degree population boom I think its just plain funny. Degrees really dont matter after 4th or 5th anyway. (correct me if I am wrong Mr. C) People just think they look cooler. Well I'd rather look like an idiot that doesnt know anything and kick your *** than to look like i can kick your *** and not be able to do it. It reminds me of a boxing friend of mine that met Mike Tyson and asked Mike what he thought about champion heavyweight boxers in general. Tyson simply said "Always remember just cause someones a heavyweight champ doesnt mean they are any good." Mr. Conatser should be respected and flat out knows kenpo and its ongoings. I remember Mr. Parker himself telling me this. Enough said.

If he's kicking the *** of teenagers smarting off to him then he's got some other issues to deal with cuz that's just wrong.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Ronin
Great Post!!! I totally agree with you! As a long time student of Mr. Conatsers and one that lives in Arizona, I grow tired of these people who show such disrespect to someone who helps out by dedicating time to helping up and coming kenpoists with questions. Boy I remember as a teenager smarting off to Mr. C and having my *** kicked as a result. I cant believe just because someone gets a black belt they feel they have the right to lash out at "old school" instructors. Mr C. has always explained things based on his experiences thats not to offend anyone its just the way he saw it. In an off the wall comparison, this reminds me of Anakin Skywalker disrespecting Obi-Wan Kenobi feeling his knowledge was better than his masters. I think Mr. Idol would be singing a different tune if he was in Arizona and not disrespectfully disagreeing over a computer. Mr C. sorry if this fuels anything further it just bothers me. As for the tenth degree population boom I think its just plain funny. Degrees really dont matter after 4th or 5th anyway. (correct me if I am wrong Mr. C) People just think they look cooler. Well I'd rather look like an idiot that doesnt know anything and kick your *** than to look like i can kick your *** and not be able to do it. It reminds me of a boxing friend of mine that met Mike Tyson and asked Mike what he thought about champion heavyweight boxers in general. Tyson simply said "Always remember just cause someones a heavyweight champ doesnt mean they are any good." Mr. Conatser should be respected and flat out knows kenpo and its ongoings. I remember Mr. Parker himself telling me this. Enough said.

Dougy, what up? I know what you mean, credibility for some is who and what they will accept at the time. it's really bad when the stories start to change and people just begin to flat out lie. And why it is so important? If someone is going to have something to say, it should at least be someone who was around. Not this he said she said, but, in the end everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they are not in my house or within my reach.
It's not business, it's personal.

 

[Wes Idol]

Originally posted by Ronin
I think Mr. Idol would be singing a different tune if he was in Arizona and not disrespectfully disagreeing over a computer.

Everything I post I will say in person. Every week I am regularly at Bryan Hawkins Kenpo Karate. If anyone would like, you can fly me out to another state or country where I will continue to say face to face what I have posted......the truth matters.

WI, HI
UKS

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Doc
Dougy, what up? I know what you mean, credibility for some is who and what they will accept at the time. it's really bad when the stories start to change and people just begin to flat out lie. And why it is so important? If someone is going to have something to say, it should at least be someone who was around. Not this he said she said, but, in the end everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as they are not in my house or within my reach.
It's not business, it's personal.

Mr. Chapel' I don't think that this is the "GOU" Ronin... :asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Ronin
Great Post!!! I totally agree with you! As a long time student of Mr. Conatsers and one that lives in Arizona, I grow tired of these people who show such disrespect to someone who helps out by dedicating time to helping up and coming kenpoists with questions. Boy I remember as a teenager smarting off to Mr. C and having my *** kicked as a result. I cant believe just because someone gets a black belt they feel they have the right to lash out at "old school" instructors. Mr C. has always explained things based on his experiences thats not to offend anyone its just the way he saw it. In an off the wall comparison, this reminds me of Anakin Skywalker disrespecting Obi-Wan Kenobi feeling his knowledge was better than his masters. I think Mr. Idol would be singing a different tune if he was in Arizona and not disrespectfully disagreeing over a computer. Mr C. sorry if this fuels anything further it just bothers me. As for the tenth degree population boom I think its just plain funny. Degrees really dont matter after 4th or 5th anyway. (correct me if I am wrong Mr. C) People just think they look cooler. Well I'd rather look like an idiot that doesnt know anything and kick your *** than to look like i can kick your *** and not be able to do it. It reminds me of a boxing friend of mine that met Mike Tyson and asked Mike what he thought about champion heavyweight boxers in general. Tyson simply said "Always remember just cause someones a heavyweight champ doesnt mean they are any good." Mr. Conatser should be respected and flat out knows kenpo and its ongoings. I remember Mr. Parker himself telling me this. Enough said.

This post is OBVIOUSLY biased toward Mr. Conatser! Of course you defend him...HE'S YOUR INSTRUCTOR! I would probably do the same thing....However there are other people that WERE there. They didn't just "hear" about it or were "told" about it. Ronin, open your mind my Kenpo brother...there are OTHER opinions out there :asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Mr. Chapel' I don't think that this is the "GOU" Ronin... :asian:

My Bad! thanks for the heads up! Or as the church lady would say ..... nevermind.

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Wes Idol


...

Actually it was concerning Ron Chapel’s 1st thru 6th blacks, which Parker never promoted Chapel too. This was confirmed by many hearing it right out of Parker’s mouth. On the other hand, many confirmed that Pick got his black belt from Parker…so your comparison is a little off. It’s really more about being truthful.

It’s very simple…don’t lie.

It is even simpler than that Wes. Do not have a double standard.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Sigung86
It is even simpler than that Wes. Do not have a double standard.

Mr. Farmer,
It amazes me how much some people say they "HEAR" and repeat as if it were gospel. If it were really important I guess these people could speak for themselves. How do you defend yourself against a self appointed know it all who can only tell you what he heard and believes, but has no first hand knowledge himself?

Childish, immature, sick junior high school, he said she said, B.S. Some people need documentations, pictures, and 2 approved witnesses, whereas with others whatever they say must be the truth.

It's obviously alright to have an opinion but to argue so vehemently with senior students of Ed Parker about something in public you can only say you heard about is moronic in my opinion or worse yet, just plain sick.

anybody got a wrench?

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by Doc


It's obviously alright to have an opinion but to argue so vehemently with senior students of Ed Parker about something in public you can only say you heard about is moronic in my opinion or worse yet, just plain sick.

anybody got a wrench?

hey Doc,

i hope you still remember me ? we used to email back and forth about your marial art university. Got the book but i haven't time to arrive to your martial art university for a visit and hopefully have a future training. I hope you don't close the door SOON

by the way, it is OK for you not to remember me. I know many people contact you daily.

about 10th degree people. You know Ed Parker well. Don't you guys have a list of who are in the Organization and had black belt when Parker Sr was alive ?

i think that if you guys have that list, Nobody claims S.H.I.T nowsday because the TRUTH is there.

nice to see you again

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by webpage20022003
hey Doc,

i hope you still remember me ? we used to email back and forth about your marial art university. Got the book but i haven't time to arrive to your martial art university for a visit and hopefully have a future training. I hope you don't close the door SOON

by the way, it is OK for you not to remember me. I know many people contact you daily.

about 10th degree people. You know Ed Parker well. Don't you guys have a list of who are in the Organization and had black belt when Parker Sr was alive ?

i think that if you guys have that list, Nobody claims S.H.I.T nowsday because the TRUTH is there.

nice to see you again

Hey Big Guy, so you're still alive? i wondered what happened to you. Hope all is well.

As far as ranks go, Parker promoted people in the early days all kind of ways. On the phone, for business, for service, and yes even vicariously for money. Some diplomas were given out but not always. Some were made out in crayon, hand printed or written, you name it.

As far as I know when he created the Big Diploma Ed Parker Jr. made one out for everyone that was supposed to have one, for his Father's signature. Hell they were new and really nice and everyone I know wanted one. It was a prized possession to have even if you never displayed it. Everyone that was reasonbly close to Parker and still in the organization got one as far as I know.

But in fairness he was Ed Parker, and did whatever he wanted when he wanted. he kept better records when he computerized but the person he gave that task to wasn't the best and some people got diplomas that were never entered into the computer. I saw diplomas going to people of high rank I never heard of.

So there you go. For me rank is nebulous. What does it mean? Without the knowledge and skill, and in some cases just time, it isn't worth much anyway. I don't call anyone Grand anything or master anything. I just do what I do and the others can fight about who has the biggest D**K. I'll match real knowledge with anyone.

Don't be a stranger and stay in touch. you know the e-mail. Look forward to you coming out.